jdm b16a or jdm b18c1??
05-10-2003, 07:23 PM
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jdm b16a or jdm b18c1??
Well, I'm sure everyone has heard this before, but here goes for the 10 millionth time... Which would you prefer? JDM B16A? or JDM B18C1? Which one would you guys prefer to put in a 97' Civic EX, I'm doing the swap in July, and I just want everyones opinion on which engine to put in.
05-10-2003, 07:36 PM
#2
Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (Jus4U2NV)
Why would someone pick the b16a if they can afford the b18c1?
Why would someone pick the b18c1 if they can afford the b18c5?
Get the point?
If you have the money for the gs-r engine, go for it.
Many people here will tell you that after putting in the b16a, they thought they should have waited.... to get funds for the b18c1..
then again, I have seen posts where people with the b18c1 engines are bitching about not getting the type-r motor off the start..
If you want a detailed write up on why is the b18c5 motor superior to the b18c1 read this article.. the information os it is amazing
INTEGRA TYPE R
Honda's True "Tuner Car"
Original article written by Tamotsu Horikoshi, translated by Kaz Mori
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why does Honda choose to tune the R by hand?
Japan's automobile makers are famous for using their experience and knowledge gained in the racing field and making use of it in their production lines for street cars. Well, the sad truth is that most of the time, such things are thrown around as hype -- most automobile makers will make a car "inspired" by racing, but they don't actually employ racing technology, and automobile makers never really "fully tune" their cars. However the Integra Type R is not so. Its racing spirit is not that of image, but is in its generous use of racing technology. The Type R is a car that comes fully tuned straight from the manufacturer.
In order to increase compression ratio, the side molds of the pistons were increased. (Pent-Roof-type Piston) The inside was shaved to balance out the total weight, and the aluminum pistons were forged in order to retain precision.
Though the easiest way to increase horsepower is by increasing displacement or installing a turbo, Honda has made its reputation by sticking to its NA engines. The Integra's VTEC B18C type engine retained its stock displacement, but Honda increased its horsepower from 180 to 200. It's only *20* horses more, but those 20 horses were really tweaked out using Honda's formula 1 knowledge -- from an engine that was already getting 100 horsepower per liter. Fumiyasu Suga, Type R's assistant chief engineer, was kind enough to sit down with us.
Currently, production line engines and engine parts are made by computer-guided NCR machines, and are of very high quality. However, Mr. Suga believes that in order to make a true race engine, some parts must be built/assembled by hand. In specific, the assembling of the engine, balancing parts, and porting and polishing need to be done by hand. Amazingly, all Type R engines are built this way.
Custom-made connecting rods for the Type R. It is made to withstand the higher rpm's, and is still lighter than the stock parts. These Type R parts are made with such precision that the weight difference between all four rods is so small that it is negligible.
Naturally, porting and polishing excessively won't yield good results -- it will only upset the balance between displacement and peak rpm's. Some basic physics explained... In any cylindrical enclosure/piping, the closer air is to the metal wall, it will flow slower, and the closer it is to the center of the cylinder, it will flow faster. As rpm's increase, slight variations in the enclosure will cause for serious air flow disturbances. Logically speaking, a straight, cylindrical port would prevent any problems of air-flow disturbance, but with street cars and their limited engine bay space, the port has to be bent. The stock port is built to within such precision that it can already withstand rpm's of up to 7,000 rpm without creating any unwanted air-flow disturbances, but once it reaches 8,500 rpm, the engine struggles to keep the air flowing smoothly. To augment this problem, two of the best mechanics at Honda were selected and assigned to manually port and polish the engine components. Though this limits production to 25 engines a day, this allows for the engine to reach 8,500 rpm, and respectively, 200 horsepower. For those of us who want to port and polish our GS-R engine parts, unfortunately, Honda would not disclose to us the details of this procedure.
The piston skirt was made lighter in order to lessen the inertial mass. Since lightening the piston causes the piston "neck" to rock back and forth, a molybdenum coating was applied to lessen friction.
Next, the valves and the valve springs needed to be upgraded in order to be able to withstand the high rpm's and the increased fuel injection. In order to increase air flow efficiency, the angle of the valve seat opening was tightened from 60 to 45 degrees. Also, bigger and lighter valves help to deliver more fuel. Instead of making the valve bigger, Honda engineers made the cone bigger and reduced the stem radius even further. In specific, the underside of the valve cone was shaved to its limit, and the valve shaft width was decreased from 5.5mm to 4.6mm -- making the valve 12% lighter than stock. Amazingly, the valves are made so precisely that their static balance differential is basically 0.0. We jokingly asked Mr. Suga what he would do if Honda's parts manufacturers sent over valves that had weight differences. His reply was quick and simple. "We would toss them out." Hm... very strict. Past 8,000 rpm, other valve-related problems occur. Such problems include surging, jumping, bouncing, etc... In order to prevent such problems, the valve springs are made by dual-bound springs. Furthermore, Honda used non-cylindrical, "flat" springs in order to keep the spring height near-stock, and still increase rebounding power.
Injectors installed on the underside of the pistons allow for improved cooling, and prevent the pistons from getting "burned-in".
The camshaft lift amount was changed for both intake and exhaust valves. The intake lift was increased from 10.6mm to 11.5mm, and the exhaust lift was increased from 9.4mm to 10.5mm. To compensate, the intake opening timing was increased from 10 to 15 degrees before piston apex, and closing timing was increased from 40 to 45 degrees after the piston reaching base. Likewise, the exhaust opening timing was increased from 40 to 45 degrees before the piston reaching base, and the closing timing was increased from 7 to 10 degrees after piston apex. By doing so, the valves remain open longer -- allowing for more air to enter the combustion chamber.
Unlike the base crankshaft, additional balancing weights were added on number 1 and 4, and allows for smooth, high-rpm revving -- making it a 8-weight, fully-balanced crankshaft.
The attachment point of the connecting rods to the crankshaft uses a new, adjustable connector that allows the mechanics to manually adjust the connection using a micrometer so they can compensate for the stretching of the connecting rod bolt.
One of the keys to tuning a NA engine is the piston. In order to increase the compression ratio, aluminum, pent-roof-type pistons were used. In order to keep a good precision of mass, the aluminum pistons were forged. The piston ring was given more space to move around in, and to prevent piston "head" shake caused by the extra space, a molybdenum coating (also used in the NSX) was applied to lessen friction. The con rods are specially made for the Type R, and have a neat, little letter "R" molded onto it. The precision weight of these con rods are 2 levels above that of on-line production models. The weight differential between all four rods is so small that it is negligible, and all contacting surface areas are finished off with a race-car, mirror finish, and is connected to a fully balanced crankshaft. Furthermore, the assembly of the con rods and the crankshaft play an important role in attaining the high rpm's. In order to ensure perfect assembly, the engine is taken off-line and these parts are assembled by hand. A custom con rod micrometer gauge is used, and the stretching of the con rod bolt is taken into account for as the connections are tightened. This is something no machine can do, and this ensures that there aren't any unwanted vibrations at high rpm.
The dual-port intake manifold was "simplified" to a single-port -- allowing the torque curve peak to be at an unusually high 7,500 rpm. Very unusual indeed, but compliments the horsepower curve peak at 8,000 rpm.
In order to prevent engine knocking at high rpm's, NGK's high-spark #7 platinums are used. Honda is so meticulous with its Type R production that it actually coats the spark plug tip with silicone so the spark plug doesn't collect any unwanted deposits during the stop-and-go of transportation. (Wow... does that help any?)
Two of the best mechanics at Honda port and polish the manifolds by hand in order to create a high-rpm engine. Due to the manual process, only 25 engines a day can be created. Our sources have confirmed that their are now 5 mechanics working full time on port and polish. Ed.
The intake port was simplified from a dual-port to a single-port -- in hopes of making high-speed air flow better. The stock exhaust piping that varied in width from 48.6mm~50.8mm was upgraded to a full piping with 57.2mm width all the way. Furthermore, the fully stainless-steel header a-pipe employs a 4-2-1 design, but with no sharp edges in the A-pipe when going from 2 to 1. This is a feature that is said to be impossible to do in mass-production.
The valve springs are not cylindrical, but flat -- and made of dual-bound springs. This prevents the surging effect at high rpm's, and avoids any interference with the pistons. The cut-off area of the springs are done with the most extreme care.
Bigger valves have their advantages, but are heavier. The Type R's valves were redesigned so as to have a bigger cone area, but still be 12% lighter.
In overview, over 60 engine-related parts were changed or entirely re-designed for the Type R. We asked Mr. Suga for any other advice on tuning the Type R any further. He replied, "I would prefer that people don't try to further tune the Type R. No, actually, they shouldn't try. Each upgraded part works in perfect harmony, and fiddling with the factory setting will only lead to a decrease in performance." It's probably safe to say that the Type R is a rare, "fully tuned" and "stock" automobile.
In order to make exhaust air flow smoother, there are no sharp angles in the header. Furthermore, in order to lighten/strengthen the parts, stainless steel was used.
Impossible to do in mass-production, all exhaust piping is welded together with no sharp edges throughout. Also, the piping was upgraded to 57.2mm throughout to increase air flow.
The muffler is a multi-chamber design, and does a wonderful job of dissipating sound. However, the funnel-shaped piping in-between the chambers makes it a very free-flowing exhaust.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Integra Type R Specs
Bore/Stroke Stock
Displacement Stock
Compression Ratio 11.1
Valve Width See above
Plugs #7 Platinum
Throttle Body 62mm (+ 2mm of stock)
Intake Manifold Single Port
Air Intake Width 70mm (+ 5mm of stock)
Exhaust Piping 57.2mm (+6.4mm~8.6mm of stock)
Tail Pipe Width 76mm (+25.2mm of stock)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mass Gain (compared to GS-R)
Stiffer Suspension/High-grip tires +5.500kg
LSD +1.500kg
Performance Rod & Aluminum Make +3.440kg
Body Stiffening Metal Sheets +1.711kg
Strengthening Wheel Bolts & Bearings +0.704kg
Strengthening Tailgate Area +0.313kg
Stiffer Rubber Exhaust Piping Mounts +0.140kg
Recaro Seats +6.647kg
Front Spoiler +1.034kg
Rear Spoiler +2.900kg
Miscellaneous +1.160kg
Total Increase: +25.049kg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mass Reduction (compared to GS-R)
Lighten Flywheel -0.750kg
Lighter Engine, Exhaust Pipings -3.329kg
Aluminum Radiator -1.350kg
Compact Battery -3.000kg
Lighter Aluminum Wheels -5.200kg
Floor Sheetmetal Removed -10.665kg
Dashboard Insulator Removed -3.869kg
Fuel Tank Wave Absorber Removed -0.450kg
Floor Heat Panel Removed -0.272kg
Resin Spare Tire Lid -0.997kg
Aluminum Left-Side "Stopper Bracket" -1.300kg
MOMO Small-Radius Steering Wheel -0.700kg
Rear Wiper Removal -1.851kg
Car Stereo & Antenna Removal (optional) -5.665kg
Air Conditioner Removal (optional) -18.700kg
Miscellaneous -6.919kg
Total Decrease: -65.017kg
Best 1/4 E.T.: 14.66 "Bone" stock.
Why would someone pick the b18c1 if they can afford the b18c5?
Get the point?
If you have the money for the gs-r engine, go for it.
Many people here will tell you that after putting in the b16a, they thought they should have waited.... to get funds for the b18c1..
then again, I have seen posts where people with the b18c1 engines are bitching about not getting the type-r motor off the start..
If you want a detailed write up on why is the b18c5 motor superior to the b18c1 read this article.. the information os it is amazing
INTEGRA TYPE R
Honda's True "Tuner Car"
Original article written by Tamotsu Horikoshi, translated by Kaz Mori
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why does Honda choose to tune the R by hand?
Japan's automobile makers are famous for using their experience and knowledge gained in the racing field and making use of it in their production lines for street cars. Well, the sad truth is that most of the time, such things are thrown around as hype -- most automobile makers will make a car "inspired" by racing, but they don't actually employ racing technology, and automobile makers never really "fully tune" their cars. However the Integra Type R is not so. Its racing spirit is not that of image, but is in its generous use of racing technology. The Type R is a car that comes fully tuned straight from the manufacturer.
In order to increase compression ratio, the side molds of the pistons were increased. (Pent-Roof-type Piston) The inside was shaved to balance out the total weight, and the aluminum pistons were forged in order to retain precision.
Though the easiest way to increase horsepower is by increasing displacement or installing a turbo, Honda has made its reputation by sticking to its NA engines. The Integra's VTEC B18C type engine retained its stock displacement, but Honda increased its horsepower from 180 to 200. It's only *20* horses more, but those 20 horses were really tweaked out using Honda's formula 1 knowledge -- from an engine that was already getting 100 horsepower per liter. Fumiyasu Suga, Type R's assistant chief engineer, was kind enough to sit down with us.
Currently, production line engines and engine parts are made by computer-guided NCR machines, and are of very high quality. However, Mr. Suga believes that in order to make a true race engine, some parts must be built/assembled by hand. In specific, the assembling of the engine, balancing parts, and porting and polishing need to be done by hand. Amazingly, all Type R engines are built this way.
Custom-made connecting rods for the Type R. It is made to withstand the higher rpm's, and is still lighter than the stock parts. These Type R parts are made with such precision that the weight difference between all four rods is so small that it is negligible.
Naturally, porting and polishing excessively won't yield good results -- it will only upset the balance between displacement and peak rpm's. Some basic physics explained... In any cylindrical enclosure/piping, the closer air is to the metal wall, it will flow slower, and the closer it is to the center of the cylinder, it will flow faster. As rpm's increase, slight variations in the enclosure will cause for serious air flow disturbances. Logically speaking, a straight, cylindrical port would prevent any problems of air-flow disturbance, but with street cars and their limited engine bay space, the port has to be bent. The stock port is built to within such precision that it can already withstand rpm's of up to 7,000 rpm without creating any unwanted air-flow disturbances, but once it reaches 8,500 rpm, the engine struggles to keep the air flowing smoothly. To augment this problem, two of the best mechanics at Honda were selected and assigned to manually port and polish the engine components. Though this limits production to 25 engines a day, this allows for the engine to reach 8,500 rpm, and respectively, 200 horsepower. For those of us who want to port and polish our GS-R engine parts, unfortunately, Honda would not disclose to us the details of this procedure.
The piston skirt was made lighter in order to lessen the inertial mass. Since lightening the piston causes the piston "neck" to rock back and forth, a molybdenum coating was applied to lessen friction.
Next, the valves and the valve springs needed to be upgraded in order to be able to withstand the high rpm's and the increased fuel injection. In order to increase air flow efficiency, the angle of the valve seat opening was tightened from 60 to 45 degrees. Also, bigger and lighter valves help to deliver more fuel. Instead of making the valve bigger, Honda engineers made the cone bigger and reduced the stem radius even further. In specific, the underside of the valve cone was shaved to its limit, and the valve shaft width was decreased from 5.5mm to 4.6mm -- making the valve 12% lighter than stock. Amazingly, the valves are made so precisely that their static balance differential is basically 0.0. We jokingly asked Mr. Suga what he would do if Honda's parts manufacturers sent over valves that had weight differences. His reply was quick and simple. "We would toss them out." Hm... very strict. Past 8,000 rpm, other valve-related problems occur. Such problems include surging, jumping, bouncing, etc... In order to prevent such problems, the valve springs are made by dual-bound springs. Furthermore, Honda used non-cylindrical, "flat" springs in order to keep the spring height near-stock, and still increase rebounding power.
Injectors installed on the underside of the pistons allow for improved cooling, and prevent the pistons from getting "burned-in".
The camshaft lift amount was changed for both intake and exhaust valves. The intake lift was increased from 10.6mm to 11.5mm, and the exhaust lift was increased from 9.4mm to 10.5mm. To compensate, the intake opening timing was increased from 10 to 15 degrees before piston apex, and closing timing was increased from 40 to 45 degrees after the piston reaching base. Likewise, the exhaust opening timing was increased from 40 to 45 degrees before the piston reaching base, and the closing timing was increased from 7 to 10 degrees after piston apex. By doing so, the valves remain open longer -- allowing for more air to enter the combustion chamber.
Unlike the base crankshaft, additional balancing weights were added on number 1 and 4, and allows for smooth, high-rpm revving -- making it a 8-weight, fully-balanced crankshaft.
The attachment point of the connecting rods to the crankshaft uses a new, adjustable connector that allows the mechanics to manually adjust the connection using a micrometer so they can compensate for the stretching of the connecting rod bolt.
One of the keys to tuning a NA engine is the piston. In order to increase the compression ratio, aluminum, pent-roof-type pistons were used. In order to keep a good precision of mass, the aluminum pistons were forged. The piston ring was given more space to move around in, and to prevent piston "head" shake caused by the extra space, a molybdenum coating (also used in the NSX) was applied to lessen friction. The con rods are specially made for the Type R, and have a neat, little letter "R" molded onto it. The precision weight of these con rods are 2 levels above that of on-line production models. The weight differential between all four rods is so small that it is negligible, and all contacting surface areas are finished off with a race-car, mirror finish, and is connected to a fully balanced crankshaft. Furthermore, the assembly of the con rods and the crankshaft play an important role in attaining the high rpm's. In order to ensure perfect assembly, the engine is taken off-line and these parts are assembled by hand. A custom con rod micrometer gauge is used, and the stretching of the con rod bolt is taken into account for as the connections are tightened. This is something no machine can do, and this ensures that there aren't any unwanted vibrations at high rpm.
The dual-port intake manifold was "simplified" to a single-port -- allowing the torque curve peak to be at an unusually high 7,500 rpm. Very unusual indeed, but compliments the horsepower curve peak at 8,000 rpm.
In order to prevent engine knocking at high rpm's, NGK's high-spark #7 platinums are used. Honda is so meticulous with its Type R production that it actually coats the spark plug tip with silicone so the spark plug doesn't collect any unwanted deposits during the stop-and-go of transportation. (Wow... does that help any?)
Two of the best mechanics at Honda port and polish the manifolds by hand in order to create a high-rpm engine. Due to the manual process, only 25 engines a day can be created. Our sources have confirmed that their are now 5 mechanics working full time on port and polish. Ed.
The intake port was simplified from a dual-port to a single-port -- in hopes of making high-speed air flow better. The stock exhaust piping that varied in width from 48.6mm~50.8mm was upgraded to a full piping with 57.2mm width all the way. Furthermore, the fully stainless-steel header a-pipe employs a 4-2-1 design, but with no sharp edges in the A-pipe when going from 2 to 1. This is a feature that is said to be impossible to do in mass-production.
The valve springs are not cylindrical, but flat -- and made of dual-bound springs. This prevents the surging effect at high rpm's, and avoids any interference with the pistons. The cut-off area of the springs are done with the most extreme care.
Bigger valves have their advantages, but are heavier. The Type R's valves were redesigned so as to have a bigger cone area, but still be 12% lighter.
In overview, over 60 engine-related parts were changed or entirely re-designed for the Type R. We asked Mr. Suga for any other advice on tuning the Type R any further. He replied, "I would prefer that people don't try to further tune the Type R. No, actually, they shouldn't try. Each upgraded part works in perfect harmony, and fiddling with the factory setting will only lead to a decrease in performance." It's probably safe to say that the Type R is a rare, "fully tuned" and "stock" automobile.
In order to make exhaust air flow smoother, there are no sharp angles in the header. Furthermore, in order to lighten/strengthen the parts, stainless steel was used.
Impossible to do in mass-production, all exhaust piping is welded together with no sharp edges throughout. Also, the piping was upgraded to 57.2mm throughout to increase air flow.
The muffler is a multi-chamber design, and does a wonderful job of dissipating sound. However, the funnel-shaped piping in-between the chambers makes it a very free-flowing exhaust.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Integra Type R Specs
Bore/Stroke Stock
Displacement Stock
Compression Ratio 11.1
Valve Width See above
Plugs #7 Platinum
Throttle Body 62mm (+ 2mm of stock)
Intake Manifold Single Port
Air Intake Width 70mm (+ 5mm of stock)
Exhaust Piping 57.2mm (+6.4mm~8.6mm of stock)
Tail Pipe Width 76mm (+25.2mm of stock)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mass Gain (compared to GS-R)
Stiffer Suspension/High-grip tires +5.500kg
LSD +1.500kg
Performance Rod & Aluminum Make +3.440kg
Body Stiffening Metal Sheets +1.711kg
Strengthening Wheel Bolts & Bearings +0.704kg
Strengthening Tailgate Area +0.313kg
Stiffer Rubber Exhaust Piping Mounts +0.140kg
Recaro Seats +6.647kg
Front Spoiler +1.034kg
Rear Spoiler +2.900kg
Miscellaneous +1.160kg
Total Increase: +25.049kg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mass Reduction (compared to GS-R)
Lighten Flywheel -0.750kg
Lighter Engine, Exhaust Pipings -3.329kg
Aluminum Radiator -1.350kg
Compact Battery -3.000kg
Lighter Aluminum Wheels -5.200kg
Floor Sheetmetal Removed -10.665kg
Dashboard Insulator Removed -3.869kg
Fuel Tank Wave Absorber Removed -0.450kg
Floor Heat Panel Removed -0.272kg
Resin Spare Tire Lid -0.997kg
Aluminum Left-Side "Stopper Bracket" -1.300kg
MOMO Small-Radius Steering Wheel -0.700kg
Rear Wiper Removal -1.851kg
Car Stereo & Antenna Removal (optional) -5.665kg
Air Conditioner Removal (optional) -18.700kg
Miscellaneous -6.919kg
Total Decrease: -65.017kg
Best 1/4 E.T.: 14.66 "Bone" stock.
05-10-2003, 07:46 PM
#4
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (Jus4U2NV)
Would it be worth it to buy the B18C5 over th B18C1 if you had no money left over for intake and headers and suspension? Seems like it would be just as fast stock as it would be with the B18C1 with i,h,e.
05-10-2003, 07:51 PM
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (Jus4U2NV)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jus4U2NV »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would it be worth it to buy the B18C5 over th B18C1 if you had no money left over for intake and headers and suspension? Seems like it would be just as fast stock as it would be with the B18C1 with i,h,e.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Man, you really need to actually READ everything he posted. The B18C5 is an amazing engine.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Man, you really need to actually READ everything he posted. The B18C5 is an amazing engine.
![-[95cxhatch]-'s Avatar](https://honda-tech.com/forums/customavatars/avatar999324392_1.gif){kind=avatar}
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05-10-2003, 09:59 PM
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Re: (GTlvr82)
i love b16's. a fun motor you can rev the **** out of and still get the parts cheap (well... cheaper than gsr) if and when you break them. they are definatly not to be underestimated...
05-10-2003, 09:59 PM
#9
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Re: (GTlvr82)
i dont think theres a jdm b18c1
its just b18c
oh and a b16a even with i h e SUCKS
i have it and even in a 95 cx stripped (no ac , rear seats, spare, ect)
and its not all that (i need boost)
go b18 for sure
its just b18c
oh and a b16a even with i h e SUCKS
i have it and even in a 95 cx stripped (no ac , rear seats, spare, ect)
and its not all that (i need boost)
go b18 for sure
05-10-2003, 10:04 PM
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Re: (allmtr)
It depends what you wanna go for. For turbo i would do b18c for that, but if you wanna do all motor i'd go with a nice b18c5. If you don't have the funds for a b18c5 i'd go for a b18c all the way
05-10-2003, 10:11 PM
#12
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Re: (redline201)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redline201 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont think theres a jdm b18c1
its just b18c
oh and a b16a even with i h e SUCKS
i have it and even in a 95 cx stripped (no ac , rear seats, spare, ect)
and its not all that (i need boost)
go b18 for sure
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i loved mine when i had it. i plan on fully building another
its just b18c
oh and a b16a even with i h e SUCKS
i have it and even in a 95 cx stripped (no ac , rear seats, spare, ect)
and its not all that (i need boost)
go b18 for sure
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i loved mine when i had it. i plan on fully building another
05-11-2003, 06:55 AM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (redline201)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redline201 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
oh and a b16a even with i h e SUCKS
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah
Like was said above, if you have the money get the best one you can afford. If you can only afford a B16 then build it right and learn to drive and you'll have no regrets.
oh and a b16a even with i h e SUCKS
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah
Like was said above, if you have the money get the best one you can afford. If you can only afford a B16 then build it right and learn to drive and you'll have no regrets.
05-11-2003, 07:13 AM
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Re: (hondalawnmower)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondalawnmower »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you're planning on leaving the engine stock. go for the b18c5 or any type R motor. If you're planning on building a motor.. ide take a 1.8</TD></TR></TABLE>
ummm ok?
ummm ok?
05-11-2003, 07:25 AM
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Re: (nsxmatt)
I love my B18C-R and if you can order two or more you'll get a price break. My friend and I did that and it saved us around 500 per engine. Which comes in handy when you replace all those important parts...belts, pumps and so on.
05-11-2003, 09:56 AM
#17
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (Jus4U2NV)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jus4U2NV »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would it be worth it to buy the B18C5 over th B18C1 if you had no money left over for intake and headers and suspension? Seems like it would be just as fast stock as it would be with the B18C1 with i,h,e.
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I've owned a B18C1 with i/h/e and currently own a B18C5 with i/h/e and also a B16A2 with i/h/e in another hatchback.
I've said this a million ******* times, but I'll say it again:
If you have the money to get the B18C5 over the B18C1 do it.
My B18C1 with i/h/e dynoed 150/122 on the dyno.
My B18C5 with i/e and P28 ECU dynoed 175/123 to the wheels.
My B16A2 with i/h/e and P28 ECU dynoed only 143/102 to the wheels.
The B18C5 has since been tuned to the tune of 176/130 with a really nice midrange plot thanks to a/f tuning with a V-AFC and the addition of a DC JDM 4-1 header and Carsouns 2.5'' cat.
The B18C1 motivated my old 1992 Si hach to a best of 14.6 while the same car with the B18C5 (untuned and only intake and exhaust) did 13.9@100.97mph all on street tires.
If you only have the money for an ITR swap and no others mods like intake, header, etc. still get the B18C5 over the B18C1. A bone stock B18C5 will still outpower most B18C1 engine with i/h/e and you also get a far superior tranny with the B18C5 swap too.
IMO it goes B18C5>B18C1>B16A2 from my own personal experiences after owning all 3 and driving them every day for years at a time, not just one test ride/drive like most people go from.
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I've owned a B18C1 with i/h/e and currently own a B18C5 with i/h/e and also a B16A2 with i/h/e in another hatchback.
I've said this a million ******* times, but I'll say it again:
If you have the money to get the B18C5 over the B18C1 do it.
My B18C1 with i/h/e dynoed 150/122 on the dyno.
My B18C5 with i/e and P28 ECU dynoed 175/123 to the wheels.
My B16A2 with i/h/e and P28 ECU dynoed only 143/102 to the wheels.
The B18C5 has since been tuned to the tune of 176/130 with a really nice midrange plot thanks to a/f tuning with a V-AFC and the addition of a DC JDM 4-1 header and Carsouns 2.5'' cat.
The B18C1 motivated my old 1992 Si hach to a best of 14.6 while the same car with the B18C5 (untuned and only intake and exhaust) did 13.9@100.97mph all on street tires.
If you only have the money for an ITR swap and no others mods like intake, header, etc. still get the B18C5 over the B18C1. A bone stock B18C5 will still outpower most B18C1 engine with i/h/e and you also get a far superior tranny with the B18C5 swap too.
IMO it goes B18C5>B18C1>B16A2 from my own personal experiences after owning all 3 and driving them every day for years at a time, not just one test ride/drive like most people go from.
05-11-2003, 10:42 AM
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (B18C5-EH2)
I currently own a b18c1 (US Spec) in a CX hatch and I am loving every minute of it. The b18c5 has a completely different feel. I recommend driving someone's c5 power hatch or even a Type-R. Drive a 99-00 Si. It blows goat ***** compared to a GSR powered hatch or of course an R-powered hatch.
05-11-2003, 11:10 AM
#19
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (94si94cx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94si94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Drive a 99-00 Si. It blows goat ***** compared to a GSR powered hatch or of course an R-powered hatch.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well of course a b16 in a ek coupe is gonna feel slower than a b18c in a eg hatch. It doesn't mean it "blows goat *****" though.
Well of course a b16 in a ek coupe is gonna feel slower than a b18c in a eg hatch. It doesn't mean it "blows goat *****" though.
05-11-2003, 11:29 AM
#20
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (nsxmatt)
yup yup. i dunno why everyone is trying to be the fastest. theres always ganna be someone with more money. a b16 is a **** load of fun. sure a b18c5 might be more fun, in some ways... but not all of us can afford it. a b16 can be fun too. thats what its all about, right??? fun
05-12-2003, 05:25 AM
#21
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (allmtr)
Well, thanks to all of you, you have currupted me into spending a little more money 
I'm going with the B18C5 and leaving it stock, I love that engine sound anyways... Thanks everyone.
I'm going with the B18C5 and leaving it stock, I love that engine sound anyways... Thanks everyone.
05-12-2003, 07:00 AM
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (8grandEG)
I suggest you do a D16z6/y8 swap and Turbo it. THAT My friend is the best bang for the buck. And noone here can argue with that. 203 whp @ 10psi???? d16 w tranny 800 bux at most, Greddy kit 2000 new w/ BOV and fuel ****, soo 2800 bux later you have a nice setup, and im not just saying that because its my setup, my bother will agree and he has a b18c1/b18c5 hybrid in a 5th gen hatch.
just my 2 sense
what ever you do ull end up having a good time along with headaches! good luck
EDIT: just saw you already have the d16y8!! Call hondadriven.net now and order the greddy kit! hurry! lol
just my 2 sense
what ever you do ull end up having a good time along with headaches! good luck
EDIT: just saw you already have the d16y8!! Call hondadriven.net now and order the greddy kit! hurry! lol
05-12-2003, 07:21 AM
#24
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (14eight)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 14eight »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I suggest you do a D16z6/y8 swap and Turbo it. THAT My friend is the best bang for the buck. And noone here can argue with that. 203 whp @ 10psi???? d16 w tranny 800 bux at most, Greddy kit 2000 new w/ BOV and fuel ****, soo 2800 bux later you have a nice setup, and im not just saying that because its my setup, my bother will agree and he has a b18c1/b18c5 hybrid in a 5th gen hatch.
just my 2 sense
what ever you do ull end up having a good time along with headaches! good luck
EDIT: just saw you already have the d16y8!! Call hondadriven.net now and order the greddy kit! hurry! lol </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well I can argue with a boosted D Series just to entertain you.
I don't doubt that driving a boosted 200whp D series motor is fun as ****, and I'm not for one second telling you that a boosted D cannot be quicker than even a B18C5 because I know that it can.
BUT:
Recommending a boost build-up to everyone isn't a good idea IMO. Not everyone is committed enough to his car to do a boosted motor correctly. Not everyone knows the quirks of owning and maintaining a boosted motor. so really how can you say as a general rule a boosted D motor will be better than a B motor of any sort?
There's no way in hell a boosted D motor could stand up to the amount of hell I give my B18C5. No way. The D will be great for drag, highway, and striaghtline pulls but not too much more.
I like to have a car that can do more than just drag. I like to auto-X, and if I want to take my car out on a full road course and beat the **** out of I know I can rest assured that my engine will be happy to oblige. Can't say that for a boosted D motor.
If someone wants to get a guaranteed 165-175whp and the O.E reliability of one of Honda's best built engines ever, then the B18C5 will do just fine. With that you also get a stronger, better geared tranny with LSD too.
Boosting a D motor won't guarnatee you anything. Some make 130whp, some make 150whp, and then there are some that make 200whp - there's too many variables.
I'm not hating on the D series because I'm actually building one of those too (N/A though) but to assume that everyone will be able to get 200whp out of a D series motor is borderline silly.
Far more people blow up their boosted projects than there are success stories. Usually the guys with good running boosted motors have had to learn from their mistakes only after blowing up one or more engine beforehand.
It's not best bang for the buck if it doesn't run for long, is it?
BTW:
What is a b18c1/b18c5 hybrid?
just my 2 sense
what ever you do ull end up having a good time along with headaches! good luck
EDIT: just saw you already have the d16y8!! Call hondadriven.net now and order the greddy kit! hurry! lol </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well I can argue with a boosted D Series just to entertain you.
I don't doubt that driving a boosted 200whp D series motor is fun as ****, and I'm not for one second telling you that a boosted D cannot be quicker than even a B18C5 because I know that it can.
BUT:
Recommending a boost build-up to everyone isn't a good idea IMO. Not everyone is committed enough to his car to do a boosted motor correctly. Not everyone knows the quirks of owning and maintaining a boosted motor. so really how can you say as a general rule a boosted D motor will be better than a B motor of any sort?
There's no way in hell a boosted D motor could stand up to the amount of hell I give my B18C5. No way. The D will be great for drag, highway, and striaghtline pulls but not too much more.
I like to have a car that can do more than just drag. I like to auto-X, and if I want to take my car out on a full road course and beat the **** out of I know I can rest assured that my engine will be happy to oblige. Can't say that for a boosted D motor.
If someone wants to get a guaranteed 165-175whp and the O.E reliability of one of Honda's best built engines ever, then the B18C5 will do just fine. With that you also get a stronger, better geared tranny with LSD too.
Boosting a D motor won't guarnatee you anything. Some make 130whp, some make 150whp, and then there are some that make 200whp - there's too many variables.
I'm not hating on the D series because I'm actually building one of those too (N/A though) but to assume that everyone will be able to get 200whp out of a D series motor is borderline silly.
Far more people blow up their boosted projects than there are success stories. Usually the guys with good running boosted motors have had to learn from their mistakes only after blowing up one or more engine beforehand.
It's not best bang for the buck if it doesn't run for long, is it?
BTW:
What is a b18c1/b18c5 hybrid?
05-12-2003, 07:31 AM
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Re: jdm b16a or jdm b18c1?? (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW:
What is a b18c1/b18c5 hybrid?</TD></TR></TABLE>
maybe he has both? like that tiburon...a C5 powering the front wheels, a C1 powering the rear????
BTW:
What is a b18c1/b18c5 hybrid?</TD></TR></TABLE>
maybe he has both? like that tiburon...a C5 powering the front wheels, a C1 powering the rear????