I've done a few searches, but I have some questions on an EG brake upgrade.
01-08-2005, 11:13 AM
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I've done a few searches, but I have some questions on an EG brake upgrade.
I want to go with a set of light weight drilled/slotted front and just slotted rear. I've read about the "kits" for the swap from drums to discs, but if I'm buying all new rotors, calipers, and such, what exactly will I need and can I buy something new or of a better quality over a stock unit from a different vehicle.
The reason I'm asking is that I want to build this car right and to the best of my ability and if I can get new or best in most scenarios, that would great for me.
Thanks for your help,
Steve
The reason I'm asking is that I want to build this car right and to the best of my ability and if I can get new or best in most scenarios, that would great for me.
Thanks for your help,
Steve
01-09-2005, 05:54 AM
#4
Re: (k-series)
Are you looking for a big brake upgrade or just four-wheel discs? If you want four wheel, then just get the disc brake setup from the integra, and then put slotted rotors on there. As for big brakes, check out brembo.com, or baerbrakes.com, or perhaps even wilwood.com 
01-09-2005, 01:17 PM
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Re: (turtlecx92)
While I won't be doing a big brake kit (need small brakes for the small wheels I'll be using when drag racing) however, does their kit include everything needed or is the same thing where other parts have to be purchased from other cars?
Steve
Steve
01-09-2005, 01:32 PM
#6
Re: (k-series)
You shouldn't bother with expensive *** slotted/drilled rotors. They actually don't do the job as well as blank rotors because there is less material to absorbe heat. Also the drilled rotors tend to crack under extreme use.
Here is a link to my brake conversion write up. It covers front and rear, but you should probably focus on the rears...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1036267
Here is a link to my brake conversion write up. It covers front and rear, but you should probably focus on the rears...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1036267
01-09-2005, 01:35 PM
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Re: (94eg!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You shouldn't bother with expensive *** slotted/drilled rotors. They actually don't do the job as well as blank rotors because there is less material to absorbe heat. Also the drilled rotors tend to crack under extreme use.
Here is a link to my brake conversion write up. It covers front and rear, but you should probably focus on the rears...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1036267</TD></TR></TABLE>
Those drilled/slotted rotors are supposed to cool down faster, hence the vents. they dont cost more because they are pretty. Brembo has their rotors made that way, but other companies buy their blanks, and crossdrill and slot them themselves, damages the structural rigidity.
Here is a link to my brake conversion write up. It covers front and rear, but you should probably focus on the rears...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1036267</TD></TR></TABLE>
Those drilled/slotted rotors are supposed to cool down faster, hence the vents. they dont cost more because they are pretty. Brembo has their rotors made that way, but other companies buy their blanks, and crossdrill and slot them themselves, damages the structural rigidity.
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01-10-2005, 04:55 AM
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Re: (JUN EK9)
Please keep in mind, this is for a drag car. I'm just looking to upgrade my calipers, rotors, pads and lines.
What else do I need that I can buy new or better without ripping it off of another car? That's all I'm asking.
I'm pretty sure these kits won't have master cylinders as part, but you never know.
Steve
What else do I need that I can buy new or better without ripping it off of another car? That's all I'm asking.
I'm pretty sure these kits won't have master cylinders as part, but you never know.
Steve
01-10-2005, 05:40 AM
#9
Re: I've done a few searches, but I have some questions on an EG brake upgrade. (k-series)
"X brakes in Y car" thread https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=152884
01-10-2005, 07:42 AM
#10
Re: (JUN EK9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JUN EK9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Those drilled/slotted rotors are supposed to cool down faster, hence the vents. they dont cost more because they are pretty. Brembo has their rotors made that way, but other companies buy their blanks, and crossdrill and slot them themselves, damages the structural rigidity.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do a search. Here is a quote from stoptech.com.
"StopTech provides rotors slotted, drilled or plain. For most performance applications slotted is the preferred choice. Slotting helps wipe away debris from between the pad and rotor as well as increasing the "bite" characteristics of the pad. A drilled rotor provides the same type of benefit, but is more susceptible to cracking under severe usage. Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors".
Moral: Don't waste your money unless you like the bling, and cracked cross drilled rotors.
Those drilled/slotted rotors are supposed to cool down faster, hence the vents. they dont cost more because they are pretty. Brembo has their rotors made that way, but other companies buy their blanks, and crossdrill and slot them themselves, damages the structural rigidity.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do a search. Here is a quote from stoptech.com.
"StopTech provides rotors slotted, drilled or plain. For most performance applications slotted is the preferred choice. Slotting helps wipe away debris from between the pad and rotor as well as increasing the "bite" characteristics of the pad. A drilled rotor provides the same type of benefit, but is more susceptible to cracking under severe usage. Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors".
Moral: Don't waste your money unless you like the bling, and cracked cross drilled rotors.
01-10-2005, 08:01 AM
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Re: (94eg!)
OR... just upgrade your pads!! Everyone thinks that they need big brakes when 90% of the time it's just your pads that need changing. Get rid of the "performance street pad" and get some race pads. I run Hawk Blacks on my Civic Si at track days (20-30 minutes of lapping per session) and they do great. I believe Hawk makes a pad just for drag cars. http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/hawk1.htm
01-10-2005, 08:33 AM
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Re: (Jan in Omaha)
big brakes are mostly for looks - according to my good friend who is the head engineer over concept cars (specializing in braking and handling systems) at GM.
Most OE brakes are quite large enough, while a larger brake will allow for more heat - most drivers will never see those heat ranges unless going down a steep windy mountain road. You will however increase rotational mass - not a great idea. Calipers with larger pistons are a good idea, or dual/tripple pistons (more surface area of contact in a smaller caliper). Make sure you balance them out, as you will find from turnfast.com's articles on braking that brake bias is extremely important and should not be upset.
Brake lines - great idea...especially stainless ones, safer and more reliable. Upgrade your brake fluid to synthetic - it won't boil and cause a mushy pedal under extreme conditons. Upgrade your pads ....maybe, most "high performance" pads are just OE spec stuff with some minor tweaks, then there are REAL high-performance "racing" pads, which are great...for the track, but suck on the street as they're effective braking range is in a higher temp range, so cold...they suck.
Rotors, stay with a stock size, cross drilled OR slotted - if you must, but blanks are just about as good, but not both. Use a quality brand like Brembo - yes they are a little 'weaker', but only under EXTREME conditions (like enough they'd prolly break a normal one as well) or in the case of a defect or strange event would they break.
Cooling vents would be a nice idea, but are hard to implement on a stock vehicle.
The typical "improvement" you get with a bigger brake kit is a quicker response time from the time the pedal is pressed to maximum friction at the caliper. This is great, as if it's even 0.1 seconds faster, as with most kits..... that's 0.1sec * ft/sec you're traveling improvement in feet to a stand still.
The problem with those kits is that they often only upgrade the front, and not the rear - which causes braking imbalance,. causing only one set of the wheels to be able to come close to locking up - meaning only one set of tires is actually giving you maximum stopping power.
Also, for braking, tire width/grip has a greater impact on ability to stop than anything else.
- Nathan
p.s: I've spent years racing and being around automotive engineers....so this has been a long winded post
Most OE brakes are quite large enough, while a larger brake will allow for more heat - most drivers will never see those heat ranges unless going down a steep windy mountain road. You will however increase rotational mass - not a great idea. Calipers with larger pistons are a good idea, or dual/tripple pistons (more surface area of contact in a smaller caliper). Make sure you balance them out, as you will find from turnfast.com's articles on braking that brake bias is extremely important and should not be upset.
Brake lines - great idea...especially stainless ones, safer and more reliable. Upgrade your brake fluid to synthetic - it won't boil and cause a mushy pedal under extreme conditons. Upgrade your pads ....maybe, most "high performance" pads are just OE spec stuff with some minor tweaks, then there are REAL high-performance "racing" pads, which are great...for the track, but suck on the street as they're effective braking range is in a higher temp range, so cold...they suck.
Rotors, stay with a stock size, cross drilled OR slotted - if you must, but blanks are just about as good, but not both. Use a quality brand like Brembo - yes they are a little 'weaker', but only under EXTREME conditions (like enough they'd prolly break a normal one as well) or in the case of a defect or strange event would they break.
Cooling vents would be a nice idea, but are hard to implement on a stock vehicle.
The typical "improvement" you get with a bigger brake kit is a quicker response time from the time the pedal is pressed to maximum friction at the caliper. This is great, as if it's even 0.1 seconds faster, as with most kits..... that's 0.1sec * ft/sec you're traveling improvement in feet to a stand still.
The problem with those kits is that they often only upgrade the front, and not the rear - which causes braking imbalance,. causing only one set of the wheels to be able to come close to locking up - meaning only one set of tires is actually giving you maximum stopping power.
Also, for braking, tire width/grip has a greater impact on ability to stop than anything else.
- Nathan
p.s: I've spent years racing and being around automotive engineers....so this has been a long winded post
01-10-2005, 08:42 AM
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Re: (92Lx)
Ok, not sure how we got on the big brake topic since that's not what I'm getting, but thanks for the info.
So all I'll need is the MC and proportioning valve along with my brake upgrade?
Steve
So all I'll need is the MC and proportioning valve along with my brake upgrade?
Steve
01-10-2005, 11:52 AM
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Re: (94eg!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Master cylinder for a front swap (15/16th from 91 ex 4 door),
Porportioning valve for a rear swap (40/40 from 92-95, civic 93-97 sol, or 93-01 teg).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sweet, that's what I'm talking about!
Thanks!
Steve
Porportioning valve for a rear swap (40/40 from 92-95, civic 93-97 sol, or 93-01 teg).
</TD></TR></TABLE>Sweet, that's what I'm talking about!
Thanks!
Steve
01-13-2005, 07:47 AM
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Re: (k-series)
i am considering getting EX front brakes/control arms to upgrade my '99LX front end. My car has drums in the back. Will this cause any problems such as those described here:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92Lx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">big brakes are mostly for looks - according to my good friend who is the head engineer over concept cars (specializing in braking and handling systems) at GM.
Most OE brakes are quite large enough, while a larger brake will allow for more heat - most drivers will never see those heat ranges unless going down a steep windy mountain road. You will however increase rotational mass - not a great idea. Calipers with larger pistons are a good idea, or dual/tripple pistons (more surface area of contact in a smaller caliper). Make sure you balance them out, as you will find from turnfast.com's articles on braking that brake bias is extremely important and should not be upset.
Brake lines - great idea...especially stainless ones, safer and more reliable. Upgrade your brake fluid to synthetic - it won't boil and cause a mushy pedal under extreme conditons. Upgrade your pads ....maybe, most "high performance" pads are just OE spec stuff with some minor tweaks, then there are REAL high-performance "racing" pads, which are great...for the track, but suck on the street as they're effective braking range is in a higher temp range, so cold...they suck.
Rotors, stay with a stock size, cross drilled OR slotted - if you must, but blanks are just about as good, but not both. Use a quality brand like Brembo - yes they are a little 'weaker', but only under EXTREME conditions (like enough they'd prolly break a normal one as well) or in the case of a defect or strange event would they break.
Cooling vents would be a nice idea, but are hard to implement on a stock vehicle.
The typical "improvement" you get with a bigger brake kit is a quicker response time from the time the pedal is pressed to maximum friction at the caliper. This is great, as if it's even 0.1 seconds faster, as with most kits..... that's 0.1sec * ft/sec you're traveling improvement in feet to a stand still.
The problem with those kits is that they often only upgrade the front, and not the rear - which causes braking imbalance,. causing only one set of the wheels to be able to come close to locking up - meaning only one set of tires is actually giving you maximum stopping power.
Also, for braking, tire width/grip has a greater impact on ability to stop than anything else.
- Nathan
p.s: I've spent years racing and being around automotive engineers....so this has been a long winded post </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92Lx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">big brakes are mostly for looks - according to my good friend who is the head engineer over concept cars (specializing in braking and handling systems) at GM.
Most OE brakes are quite large enough, while a larger brake will allow for more heat - most drivers will never see those heat ranges unless going down a steep windy mountain road. You will however increase rotational mass - not a great idea. Calipers with larger pistons are a good idea, or dual/tripple pistons (more surface area of contact in a smaller caliper). Make sure you balance them out, as you will find from turnfast.com's articles on braking that brake bias is extremely important and should not be upset.
Brake lines - great idea...especially stainless ones, safer and more reliable. Upgrade your brake fluid to synthetic - it won't boil and cause a mushy pedal under extreme conditons. Upgrade your pads ....maybe, most "high performance" pads are just OE spec stuff with some minor tweaks, then there are REAL high-performance "racing" pads, which are great...for the track, but suck on the street as they're effective braking range is in a higher temp range, so cold...they suck.
Rotors, stay with a stock size, cross drilled OR slotted - if you must, but blanks are just about as good, but not both. Use a quality brand like Brembo - yes they are a little 'weaker', but only under EXTREME conditions (like enough they'd prolly break a normal one as well) or in the case of a defect or strange event would they break.
Cooling vents would be a nice idea, but are hard to implement on a stock vehicle.
The typical "improvement" you get with a bigger brake kit is a quicker response time from the time the pedal is pressed to maximum friction at the caliper. This is great, as if it's even 0.1 seconds faster, as with most kits..... that's 0.1sec * ft/sec you're traveling improvement in feet to a stand still.
The problem with those kits is that they often only upgrade the front, and not the rear - which causes braking imbalance,. causing only one set of the wheels to be able to come close to locking up - meaning only one set of tires is actually giving you maximum stopping power.
Also, for braking, tire width/grip has a greater impact on ability to stop than anything else.
- Nathan
p.s: I've spent years racing and being around automotive engineers....so this has been a long winded post </TD></TR></TABLE>
01-13-2005, 08:08 AM
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Re: (92Lx)
92Lx, that is some great information. I have one point to nit-pick.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92Lx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Calipers with larger pistons are a good idea, or dual/tripple pistons (more surface area of contact in a smaller caliper).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Larger or more pistons will not increase the surface area contacting the rotor, only larger pads will. Larger or more pistons will increase the amount of clamping force (all other factors considered equal) so this change will have the affect of making the brakes more responsive.
That may be what you meant, I thought it was unclear by the context.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92Lx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Calipers with larger pistons are a good idea, or dual/tripple pistons (more surface area of contact in a smaller caliper).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Larger or more pistons will not increase the surface area contacting the rotor, only larger pads will. Larger or more pistons will increase the amount of clamping force (all other factors considered equal) so this change will have the affect of making the brakes more responsive.
That may be what you meant, I thought it was unclear by the context.
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