ITR transmission question
07-22-2003, 09:30 AM
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ITR transmission question
I heard that ITR transmission is 99-00 civic si tranny with LSD. Is that true? Only difference is LSD and everything else are same, gear ratio ect.. If so, why there's so much of price different? If that's true, i'll just get si tranny and LSD and install myself. thanks for answers.
07-22-2003, 09:33 AM
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Re: ITR transmission question (bearboy80)
The theory is that some (if nto all) SI tranny's are gear'd the same as ITR tranny's.
The only other reason I'd get a ITR tranny (if it didn't come with a swap) is you take human error out of the equation of a improperly installed LSD.
But you can also pay for a better LSd then the ITR one (Like Quaife, Kaaz, ATS, Cusco, etc).
The only other reason I'd get a ITR tranny (if it didn't come with a swap) is you take human error out of the equation of a improperly installed LSD.
But you can also pay for a better LSd then the ITR one (Like Quaife, Kaaz, ATS, Cusco, etc).
07-22-2003, 09:34 AM
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Re: ITR transmission question (bearboy80)
The USDM & JDM 96-97 ITR trannies are the exact same gearing ratio as the USDM and JDM B16A trannies. Except the ITR have LSD.
The 98 and up JDM only ITR trannies the gearing is different due to the 4.785 final drive in it.
The 98 and up JDM only ITR trannies the gearing is different due to the 4.785 final drive in it.
07-22-2003, 09:40 AM
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Re: ITR transmission question (CIVIC2)
sweet i can get si tranny for $600 and Quaife for under $600. It's way cheaper than ITR tranny. I made my decision. thanks for info.
07-22-2003, 09:47 AM
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Re: ITR transmission question (bearboy80)
you also have double synchros in the ITR tranny... It is built better man...
But yes... the gears are the same, and the FD is the same in the 96-97 S80's... 98+ has the 4.785 FD...
But yes... the gears are the same, and the FD is the same in the 96-97 S80's... 98+ has the 4.785 FD...
07-22-2003, 11:10 AM
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Re: ITR transmission question (Black 2K)
[QUOTE=Black 2K]you also have double synchros in the ITR tranny... It is built better man... QUOTE]
What is double synchros? what does it do? dont flame me.
What is double synchros? what does it do? dont flame me.
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07-22-2003, 02:40 PM
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Re: ITR transmission question (bearboy80)
well all the rest of the trannys honda puts out puts in one sychro per gear set.. the itr has two per gear set... smoother shifting....
08-06-2003, 05:18 AM
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Re: ITR transmission question (Black 2K)
Black 2K
there are no double syncros in a type r transmission. the only difference is the LSD and some bearings. i just happened to be at the Acura dealership yesterday and a friend of mine (mechanic there) had a type r trannny torn down due to bearing failure. i asked him and he showed me the syncros are exactly the same, 1 per gear. He did mention something regarding the type of bearings in all the Type R's, however i dont remember exactly what he told me concerning that. the gear ratios i have never looked into but consensus here says they r the same.
And as a side note, the tranny he was working on had every other tooth of the syncros ground off for faster shifting.
there are no double syncros in a type r transmission. the only difference is the LSD and some bearings. i just happened to be at the Acura dealership yesterday and a friend of mine (mechanic there) had a type r trannny torn down due to bearing failure. i asked him and he showed me the syncros are exactly the same, 1 per gear. He did mention something regarding the type of bearings in all the Type R's, however i dont remember exactly what he told me concerning that. the gear ratios i have never looked into but consensus here says they r the same.
And as a side note, the tranny he was working on had every other tooth of the syncros ground off for faster shifting.
08-06-2003, 08:18 AM
#11
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Re: (nahledge 7)
not double syncros but DOUBLE CONE syncros meaning the shape of the syncro is different.
The ITR trannies have a beefier mainshaft and bearing/final drive ring gear size.
The Si tranny and Quaiffe will be a better solution per dollar than a JDM 96-97 ITR or USDM ITR tranny if the costs are the same, but...
ITR tranny = Honda built =
Si tranny plus Quaiffe = potential improper assembly depending on who dun it.
The ITR trannies have a beefier mainshaft and bearing/final drive ring gear size.
The Si tranny and Quaiffe will be a better solution per dollar than a JDM 96-97 ITR or USDM ITR tranny if the costs are the same, but...
ITR tranny = Honda built =
Si tranny plus Quaiffe = potential improper assembly depending on who dun it.
08-06-2003, 08:51 PM
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Re: (owen_the_soyboy)
thanks for straightening that out... i have an ITR trranny, and now at least i know what the hell im talking about!
You guys have any pics of the difference??? I dont own a helms for the ITR, just go off of my old EM1 helms manual and look at the S4C tranny.... would be interesting to actually see the difference in the synchros...
You guys have any pics of the difference??? I dont own a helms for the ITR, just go off of my old EM1 helms manual and look at the S4C tranny.... would be interesting to actually see the difference in the synchros...
09-08-2003, 07:03 PM
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Re: (owen_the_soyboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by owen_the_soyboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not double syncros but DOUBLE CONE syncros meaning the shape of the syncro is different.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
So if this double cone syncro is better, can normal B series trannys be upgraded to this?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
So if this double cone syncro is better, can normal B series trannys be upgraded to this?
09-09-2003, 01:24 AM
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Re: (Peagreenhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Peagreenhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">final drive is different too.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Which trannies are you talking about?? The B16A and ITR trannies have the same final drive unless the ITR tranny is out of a 98+ JDM ITR then the final drive would be different 4.78 in the JDM ITR 98+ as opposed to 4.4 in the USDM ITR and all B16A tranny
Which trannies are you talking about?? The B16A and ITR trannies have the same final drive unless the ITR tranny is out of a 98+ JDM ITR then the final drive would be different 4.78 in the JDM ITR 98+ as opposed to 4.4 in the USDM ITR and all B16A tranny
09-09-2003, 07:39 AM
#19
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Re: (HXMan)
Damn this is a mess.
I own an ITR tranny and can attest that there are no "double synchros" as mentioned before.
The "rumors" are that the ITR tranny is stronger, etc. but I have broken mine a few times. I broke a stock final drive and the third gear synchros have **** out on me twice already.
I also have a 99 Si swap in my fiancee's car which I have driven more than my own car, and the tranny in it has held up much better for some reason. Hers has been auto-X'd and driven hard on the street occasionally.
The only difference in mine is that it's been to the dragstrip - is this the culprit? Who knows for sure, but I think the "ITR tranny being built better" stuff might be a bit exxagerated.
Now if the choice is between a used ITR tranny and a used Si tranny and add LSD that's kind of tough.
Depends on a lot of things, namely:
Price difference between the used trannies
Price on the LSD
Price on the labor (if any)
Remember that some shops will charge up to and in excess of $250.00 to rebuild a tranny out of the car in labor only.
Putting an LSD in isn't always as easy as popping the tranny apart and putting the new diff in - I'd also replace all the bearings and chcek for synchro wear and replace as needed. the cost of such work can easily exceed the price of the tranny itself and the differential.
If you are confident in your own or your mechanic's abilities, then go for the Si tranny rebuilt with LSD - it will cost more, but in the end you'll know for sure that the tranny is in top shape.
Any time you buy used you're taking a risk...
If you can afford a brand new ITR tranny for roughly $1,800.00 then you might want to look into that too.
I own an ITR tranny and can attest that there are no "double synchros" as mentioned before.
The "rumors" are that the ITR tranny is stronger, etc. but I have broken mine a few times. I broke a stock final drive and the third gear synchros have **** out on me twice already.
I also have a 99 Si swap in my fiancee's car which I have driven more than my own car, and the tranny in it has held up much better for some reason. Hers has been auto-X'd and driven hard on the street occasionally.
The only difference in mine is that it's been to the dragstrip - is this the culprit? Who knows for sure, but I think the "ITR tranny being built better" stuff might be a bit exxagerated.
Now if the choice is between a used ITR tranny and a used Si tranny and add LSD that's kind of tough.
Depends on a lot of things, namely:
Price difference between the used trannies
Price on the LSD
Price on the labor (if any)
Remember that some shops will charge up to and in excess of $250.00 to rebuild a tranny out of the car in labor only.
Putting an LSD in isn't always as easy as popping the tranny apart and putting the new diff in - I'd also replace all the bearings and chcek for synchro wear and replace as needed. the cost of such work can easily exceed the price of the tranny itself and the differential.
If you are confident in your own or your mechanic's abilities, then go for the Si tranny rebuilt with LSD - it will cost more, but in the end you'll know for sure that the tranny is in top shape.
Any time you buy used you're taking a risk...
If you can afford a brand new ITR tranny for roughly $1,800.00 then you might want to look into that too.
09-09-2003, 07:42 AM
#20
Former Moderator
Re: ITR transmission question (bearboy80)
Lastly to clear up the final drive stuff:
All USDM ITRs have the 4.400 final drive
All 1998-up DC2 JDM ITRs have the 4.78 final drive and TALLER 4TH and 5TH GEARS to keep the 5th gear cruising the same as the 4.400 trannies.
4.400 trannies have the .848 5th gear, while the 4.78 trannies have the GS-R .787 5th gear.
All USDM ITRs have the 4.400 final drive
All 1998-up DC2 JDM ITRs have the 4.78 final drive and TALLER 4TH and 5TH GEARS to keep the 5th gear cruising the same as the 4.400 trannies.
4.400 trannies have the .848 5th gear, while the 4.78 trannies have the GS-R .787 5th gear.
09-09-2003, 07:50 AM
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Re: ITR transmission question (CIVIC2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CIVIC2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The USDM & JDM 96-97 ITR trannies are the exact same gearing ratio as the USDM and JDM B16A trannies. Except the ITR have LSD.
The 98 and up JDM only ITR trannies the gearing is different due to the 4.785 final drive in it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not quite the the 4th and 5th gear are different in the JDM tranny...the USDM are shorter but the JDM 4.785 makes up the longer gears in the JDM tranny....adding a 4.785 in a USDM shows the shorter 4th and 5th gears in highways use as they rev higher in the same gear compared to the JDM tranny even though they share the same FD
The 98 and up JDM only ITR trannies the gearing is different due to the 4.785 final drive in it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not quite the the 4th and 5th gear are different in the JDM tranny...the USDM are shorter but the JDM 4.785 makes up the longer gears in the JDM tranny....adding a 4.785 in a USDM shows the shorter 4th and 5th gears in highways use as they rev higher in the same gear compared to the JDM tranny even though they share the same FD
09-09-2003, 08:49 AM
#23
Former Moderator
Re: (owen_the_soyboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by owen_the_soyboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">double CONE </TD></TR></TABLE>
YES.
I wasn't referring to you.
</TD></TR></TABLE>YES.
I wasn't referring to you.
09-09-2003, 11:16 AM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (B18C5-EH2)
your the man once again tom..thanks for clearing some things up,my knowledge is much more understanding on the trannies now
i do have one question and i know you have first hand expierience with it..if you have a JDM ITR tranny with a higher final drive (ATS 4.9) will your 5th gear RPMS still be reasonably low because of the taller 4th and 5th gears meaning youll be able to cruise on the highway doing 75-80 and ont be a 6500 RPM??
adaM
i do have one question and i know you have first hand expierience with it..if you have a JDM ITR tranny with a higher final drive (ATS 4.9) will your 5th gear RPMS still be reasonably low because of the taller 4th and 5th gears meaning youll be able to cruise on the highway doing 75-80 and ont be a 6500 RPM??
adaM
09-09-2003, 11:50 AM
#25
Former Moderator
Re: (STEALTHMODECOUPE)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STEALTHMODECOUPE »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your the man once again tom..thanks for clearing some things up,my knowledge is much more understanding on the trannies now
i do have one question and i know you have first hand expierience with it..if you have a JDM ITR tranny with a higher final drive (ATS 4.9) will your 5th gear RPMS still be reasonably low because of the taller 4th and 5th gears meaning youll be able to cruise on the highway doing 75-80 and ont be a 6500 RPM??
adaM</TD></TR></TABLE>
With the 98' Spec tranny, the 5th gear rpm will be lower due to the taller .787 5th gear, while the pre-98' spec and USDM ITRs will cruise higher because of the taller .848 5th gear.
i do have one question and i know you have first hand expierience with it..if you have a JDM ITR tranny with a higher final drive (ATS 4.9) will your 5th gear RPMS still be reasonably low because of the taller 4th and 5th gears meaning youll be able to cruise on the highway doing 75-80 and ont be a 6500 RPM??
adaM</TD></TR></TABLE>
With the 98' Spec tranny, the 5th gear rpm will be lower due to the taller .787 5th gear, while the pre-98' spec and USDM ITRs will cruise higher because of the taller .848 5th gear.