RedlineUBRF

Whats needed for this swap, just MC and brake booster? Is the IRT MC the same as other model tegs? thanks

stevel

umm, i think the ITR is the same as far as how the placement of the lines go, but I don't know about the bore.

You're gonna have to bend some lines to get it to work...might be a problem the fact that it came from an ABS equipped car too. Not sure about that.

If you want to put in a bigger master cylinder the one to go with is one from the 90-91 EX, it's the 4 door with the D16 in it, same engine as the Si. Bolts right up, no rebending or reflaring lines and all you need is the MC.

s


[Modified by stevel, 2:30 PM 9/17/2002]

JSJ EG6

i think you need a M/C off a integra ls. rs.gs cuz they dont have abs . im i rite people??? people say you dont need a new M/C cuz you wont feel a diff.

stevel

you can use the integra RS or GS one but then you have to bend and re-flare the lines. That's why I said to get the 90-91 EX master cylinder. Much easier, bolts right in and it's the same bore as the integra RS (15/16"). You can get them remanufactured at an Autozone or Pepboys for like $60.

If you get a bigger brake set-up like a fastbrakes 11" kit then it's recommended. I have both and the set-up is killer. Especially for a grand total of less than $400.

s


[Modified by stevel, 2:40 PM 9/17/2002]


[Modified by stevel, 2:41 PM 9/17/2002]

RedlineUBRF

well i having some brake problems so i wanna replace the master cylinder and i figure that i might as well upgrade. I didn't even think of the ABS issue. 90-91 EX or LS/RS/GS sounds like a better idea. thanks

Looose_R

that is one of the best mods i did, yes it makes a huge difference

RedlineUBRF

b20..what did you use for MC? and did you replace the brake booster too?

cre18

i have an itr mc and brake booster in my 97 hatch, this alone has greatly increased my pedal feel. as of right now, i my brake setup is brembo blanks up front, rs4 pads, motul dot 4 fluid, and drums in the rear. soon to be upgraded to gsr front and rear discs.
but as far as upgrading to an itr mc and booster, i would say it's worth it.
the itr mc is 1" where as the gsr mc is 15/16" so it's your choice which to choose from

Trey

cre18 said it best, it increased the pedal feel.

In other words, it takes less pedal travel to apply the brakes since the MC bore is bigger.

With the OEM MC, you just have to press harder to do the same amount of work for the calipers.

It is a nice improvement but not necessary for a daily driver. If you track (road race or auto-x) the car often then go for it.

B18C5-EH2

First of all what kind of car do you have?

Looose_R

i used a 1inch gsr master cly and booster


[Modified by b20bastard, 1:08 PM 9/17/2002]

p0pk0rn

Did you have to use the GSR proportioning valve also?

B18C5-EH2

If it's a 1992-1995 Civic then the RS booster and M/C bolt right up and there is no line bending or reflaring because it's NON-ABS unlike the LS, GS-R, and ITR M/Cs.

Makes the install SO much easier and cleaner and prevents the kinking of lines.

dnt94civic

I'd say get the 98+ ITR MC and booster, because you get the 1" bore, but you do not need to reflare the lines, unlike the 94-97 gsr 1" MC's.
I did that, and it feels better than before.

Hooch'n

Very important swap when doing a 5 lug or planning on going racing (road racing)

B18C5-EH2

Why would you not have to reflare lines from a 98+ITR ABS unit in a non-ABS car like the 1992-1995 Cx, Vx, and DX hatches and the 1992-1993 Si hatches?

shawnhayes

I wrote an article for this that has yet to be published, but let me sum this up as best as I can:

If you upgrade to a better Honda braking system on your car, you should bring as much or as close to as much of the stock system that Honda designed to be used with those components.

If you upgrade to bigger calipers, if they are big enough, the bigger fluid requirements may require more fluid movement to provide adequate braking force (and yes, Tom, if you use the 15/16th master cylinder this is slightly less than Honda intended for either the NSX, Legend, or Integra type R calipers, and is a little less fluid than Honda meant. Although it won't make MUCH of a difference, it makes some. Honda put a 1" MC on those systems for a reason, and using a 15/16 on a ITR or CTR brake system isn't the best - agreed that rebending and reflaring is a pain, but it's probably best).

Upgrading the master cylinder SHOULD NOT, and I repeat, SHOULD NOT be done alone. Upgrading to a bigger MC and keeping the same calipers will DECREASE your available braking force. The hydraulic priciple relies on a little piston putting much more PSI into a fluid than a big piston can exert with the same force, but using that PSI to drive a big piston at the other end, applying more force at that end. If you upgrade to a bigger master cylinder and leave the calipers alone, you have now worsened the force multiplier that you have. Bigger is not always better.

But, if you've upgraded the calipers, you may need more fluid to move the bigger caliper pistons you've installed. Honda has worked it out best. They have carefully selected braking components to provide balance, and have worked out the best balance between MC and caliper pistons. Anything you do to change this may actually make braking WORSE.

When you upgrade to the ITR system, upgrade to the ITR MC, prop. valve, and front AND REAR calipers. If you upgrade to the GSR calipers, upgrade to the GSR standards for prop. valve and MC.

Experts at brake swaps can often make reasonable "substitutions" for some of these pieces. (In all honesty, despite the fact that Honda designed the ITR for a 1" master cylinder, the 15/16th's MC from the Integra RS will drive them just fine, but the 1" will have less pedal travel to engage the calipers). But, don't take this lightly. Too many "substitutions" may leave you with too far of a pedal travel to effectively brake, and changing to rear calipers without changing prop. valves may actually make braking distances LONGER.

So, to repeat. Honda worked it out best. If you upgrade, then upgrade it the way Honda did, or the best approximation of that you can possibly achieve. But, don't fool around with brakes if you don't know what you're doing. 20 feet can be the difference from walking away from the scene and being carried away in a bodybag.

Shawn

RedlineUBRF

this is on a 93 Si non-ABS. thanks shawn, thats good stuff!

I am probally just going to get an OEM MC and booster. currently I don't have any plans on upgrading to bigger brakes, so for now the OEM MC should be fine. Thanks

MrSmith

anyone have any idea how much an itr mc and booster go for used?

B18C5-EH2

A 1'' M/C won't work nearly as good if your double-flaring technique leaves you with a leaky line, now will it?

AmauryR

hmm, I'm planning on buying a '98 itr mc + booster also, so exactly what HAS to be done (flaring, etc...). lets hear some details. thanks.
-l8r

cre18

1" itr mc and booster in my hatch

Jackson

It bolts into 96-00 civics. No bending or flaring.

stevel

Damn, no one seems to be reading what I posted:
If you want to put in a bigger master cylinder the one to go with is one from the 90-91 EX, it's the 4 door with the D16 in it, same engine as the Si. Bolts right up, no rebending or reflaring lines and all you need is the MC.

It's 15/16", the ITR MC is 1". There's barely a difference. Unless you're running HUGE brakes (12"+), 15/16" is fine. Just use the 90-91 Civic EX MC. No bending of lines at all. Booster's aren't needed. Don't worry about them. Just get the MC>

True, but this was the EG forum so that's why I mentioned it. Good info though.


s


[Modified by stevel, 2:29 AM 9/18/2002]

jg

When I put am ITR mc/booster in my '94 hatch, I figured i'd have to re-flare the lines, BUT the pieces of line that were in the ITR mc(cut from the ITR) were the same exact flare size. All I had to do was re-bend the lines to fit.
A little ghetto, but it works...




[Modified by jg, 4:16 AM 9/18/2002]