EKSedAndy

The local scrapyard had an 'all you can carry' day today, and I grabbed a full rear disc and trailing arm assembly off an Integra to do a conversion on my 97 LX sedan. I've read the thread about this in the FAQ and I think I understand everything, except the master cylinder.

By the sounds of it I should definitely use the Integra master cylinder, but the mounting holes for it are kind of on a 45 degree angle, like at around say 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock, whereas my stock master cylinder bolts up straight across at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. The FAQ never mentioned needing the brake booster as well, so is this something I will also need to grab, or did I get some kind of funky system here?

EKSedAndy

Alright, I actually somewhat answered my own question, sorry, should have searched a bit harder. But the FAQ thread about "putting X brakes on your EK" says that if I just use Integra rears with my stock fronts then the stock master cylinder works best. Also only the spindle is needed, not the whole trailing arm.

Does anyone know if the Integra proportioning valve will work with my stock lines, or do I need adapters/flaring tool/some creative line bending?

Meoshe

iTrader: (3)

The integra proportioning valve will not work with your lines without bending them, you can use a 96-00 hatchback valve since its a 4040 like the 99-00 si one and will bolt right in.

94EG8

You can use a '98 - '01 Integra RS prop valve as well, they're the same style as a '96 - '00 Civic (same goes for the MC.)

EKSedAndy

Can anyone else attest to this? From what I read:

1) All of the proportioning valves are stamped the same on the exterior, so look the same, but are different on the inside, and
2) Any of the drum brake prop valves are set up differently inside so that they initially send more fluid to the rear to bring the shoes out against the drums, whereas with discs the pad is always touching the disc and this is not needed

I just want to make sure I get all my ducks in a row before I start pulling things apart, as this is my only car. And how much bending are we talking for the Integra prop valve to work? If it's nothing crazy then I don't mind working with it.

98civdx

he's correct, the hatch,couple have same prop valve as si, as far as the integra into civic not working i have no clue.

Meoshe

iTrader: (3)

Why would you want to bend lines if you don't have to, I am 100% positive the 96-00 hatchback valve is 4040 like the SI one. Also 94EG8 said the 98-01 rs is also the same so you have two options of bolt on valves as opposed to bending and reflaring lines.

94EG8

I'm not sure about the '96 - '00 prop valves, but the older valves were stamped 3030 (front discs, rear drums, and Del Sol VTEC/JDM Civic SiR, large front brakes, rear discs) 3040 ('92 - '93 Si hatchback, small front brakes and rear discs) 4040 (Integra, large front brakes [same size rotors as EX/Del Sol VTEC, but large caliper piston]) they otherwise all looked the same externally

No, some setups with rear discs use the same prop valve as those with drums.

Its a fair bit of bending. And in all fairness neither prop valve is really the correct one. There really isn't a prop valve designed to run small front brakes with rear discs on a '96 - '00 Civic ('92 - '95 civics had the '92- '93 Si prop valve) If it was me i'd just keep the civic prop valve.

Heres a list of part numbers for prop valves btw:
46210-S04-952 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 1998 INTEGRA RS
46210-S04-902 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC CX Hatch
46210-S04-902 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC DX Hatch
46210-S04-902 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC DX Coupe
46210-S04-902 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC HX Coupe
46210-S04-902 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC SI Coupe
46210-S04-912 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC DX Sedan
46210-S04-912 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC DX-V Sedan
46210-S04-912 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC LX Sedan
46210-S04-922 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC GX Sedan
46210-S04-962 VALVE ASSY., PROPORTIONING 2000 CIVIC EX Coupe

EKSedAndy

Alright, thanks guys, I'll keep an eye out for either the hatchback or a 98-01 Integra RS prop valve. But I'm just curious now, what is the difference between the hatchback and sedan prop valves? They have the same brake setups otherwise, so is there just slightly different proportioning to account for the heavier weight of the sedan?

94EG8

Thats what I can't figure out. As far as I can tell they have identical brake setups otherwise, it doesn't make any sense to me either, for whatever reason though the part numbers are different.

Meoshe

iTrader: (3)

The difference is the front brakes, EX is 10.3. The hatchbacks and HX, DX coupes have the 9" front brakes hence the difference.

94EG8

No, that I understand, what I don't understand is the DX sedans using a different prop valve than the DX hatches and coupes, they still use small front brakes.

EKSedAndy

But I've got an LX sedan, which has the smaller 9.5" front brakes, which is the exact same setup as the hatchbacks and non-Si coupes. So one would think they should all have the same proportioning valve. On the other hand, the Si and EX (US models) have the 10.3" fronts, so it would make sense they'd have the same prop valves.

However, I just did a quick check with part numbers on Majestic Honda to confirm, and what you say is correct. All of the coupes (including Si and base models) and hatchbacks have the same prop valve, while the sedans have a different one, which really make no logical sense. So looks like I'm looking for a prop valve out of any EK that is not a sedan.

EKSedAndy

Also of note is that the part numbers for the Si and all other coupes and hatchbacks prop valves are all the exact same, even though the Si has rear discs and the others all have drum. I noticed a lot of the threads in the FAQ say that the Si has some special proportioning valve, but by part numbers this seems to not be true. So it looks like there is no real difference in proportioning between rear disc and drum setups.

Just thinking out loud here, but if an EK coupe with rear 9.4" discs factory has the same exact prop valve as a coupe with rear drums, then should that mean that I would keep my stock sedan drum prop valve if I switch to 9.4" discs? Seems the prop valving is more determined by weight (and possibly weight distribution) than type of braking system.

Meoshe

iTrader: (3)

I would just go with a valve that is a 4040, and on a side note some people have reported issues with 9.5" fronts discs with rear discs.

98civdx

I alwasy used to reccomend 4040 until 94EG8 corrected me and shared some info, i dont get it, but hell one less thing i have to buy lol

The only thing i can think off is weight, but if this is the case the si is a higher weight then my dx and others, so why would I or someone else still have 4040?? Im sure honda had a good reason maybe another, im not sure, and neither is several season honda techs, they couldnt explain it at all.