Skeletor

This is for a 94 DX. I know I have to add VTEC and I'll use a Kenji ECU so I can use my old harness. Are there any problems with the distributor or injectors?

splitime

bump for someone asking a good tech question

Skeletor

Also are there any mechanical differences between the c5 and the JDM motor? I know the compression is higher, but what about the gearing and axle size? I've searched but can't seem to find solid answers.

ajchen

sorry mis-read the question.




[Modified by ajchen, 8:15 PM 3/5/2003]

Skeletor

Anyone?

IWearMyKswiss

arent the final drives different in the JDM type R motors,..i could be wrong though

White Lightnin

My buddy had to mess with the distributor to install his jdm h22. Not sure in this case though.

B2FiNiTY

iTrader: (2)

The final drive is different, the JDM one is higher. That has nothing to do with install though.

I believe the axles on the JDM one are 1mm thicker too.

smnowell

JDM B18C-R axles are 36mm instead of 32mm. I am sure the place where you are buying your swap from should have USDM axles to give you...hopefully. I know on the JDM B18C-R motor there is no oil pressure switch on the VTEC Solenoid so you have to get a USDM VTEC Solenoid (I believe that is the way around this problem). Also, it might be easier to just get the USDM swap. It will come with proper axles, you will get a USDM wiring harness which will plug right up to your car, and then just get a chipped P28, run the extra wires and you're set

all stock

i don't think the b18c spec r requires a secondary o2 sensor or CFK sensor either.

Apex i ITR

JDM motor, US axles, shift linkage mounts, Rechipped P28, USDM vtec solenoid. Don't waste your money on a USDM engine harness. The JDM one will be fine.

You are good to go......but with swaps something always comes up so be prepared.

Skeletor

What is the difference in the final drive? Is the USDM better? Also I thought I read somewhere that I have to change the distributor and use my old Civic injectors, is this true? And as far as the engine harness the JDM on will strech over to connect to my chassis harness?

Skeletor

Bump cause I'm trying to decide which to buy.

splitime

I'd say buy the jdm, better specs. Worth any differences in installation.

jonas

to elaborate on what Apex i ITR said...

if you decide to go with Kenji's obd1 reprogrammed p28 ecu (along with the needed conversion harness), you will need a USDM VTEC solenoid or you will need to tap into your JDM VTEC solenoid.

why? because the JDM ITR motor comes with a VTEC solenoid that does not come equiped with a pressure switch. the p28 ecu reads pressure switch, so if you use a JDM VTEC solenoid along with the p28, your VTEC will NOT work and you will throw CEL codes.

also like other people stated, you will need the USDM axels from any b-series motor. if you are buying from a reputable company like hmotorsonline.com..they probably already know this and should include USDM axels with your JDM ITR motor. however, i would tell Steve at hmotors ahead of time..just incase.

from MY experience with Steve, he sent me USDM axels with a swap i installed for my friend.

MAIN differences between JDM b18c-R and USDM b18c5:
<u>JDM:</u>
- 98+ spec comes with a 4-1 header with a supposed 2.5" collector (its more like 2.39" when i measured it)
- 95.5-97 spec comes with a 4-2-1 header with the same sized collector as mentioned above.
- 98+ spec comes with a 4.785 Final drive. this allows for quicker acceleration.
- 95.5-97 comes with a 4.4 Final drive like the USDM motors.
- all JDM ITR motors come with higher compression pistons, 11.0:1 which equates to more power (which is VERY minimal, and maybe not the case if the motor is not broken in right or treated properly)
- all JDM ITR motors have the red valve cover with just the H logo instead of "honda motors inc."
- 98+ spec comes with a polished oil cap and a carbon faux spark plug wire cover
- 95.5-97 spec does not.
- cams are different, someone else can elaborate on this because there are various claims to the exact specs..i dont feel like giving false information.
- ecu runs obd1 style program but utilizes obd2 plugs. it does NOT read secondary o2 (but you are planning on a p28 anyways)
- no vin number

<u>USDM:</u>
- 10.6:1 compression (due to different pistons)
- 4.4 final drive
- 4-2-1 header with a smaller collector
- red valve cover with "honda motors inc." on it
- obd2 ecu
- vin number

there are other little things that people can add, but those are the main ones.
theres differences in the intake manifold, but those do not really come into play.
also note, 95.5-98 ITR wiring harnesses use obd2a style plugs, 99-01 use obd2b style plugs. go to hondata.com for pictures on this

if you have any questions, post up. i have dealt with the USDM ITR, 95.5-97 JDM ITR and 98+ JDM ITR.

Skeletor

Hmm. So it seems the JDM motor is better all around. What conversion harness are you refering too for the ECU? I have an OBD I car and I'll be running the OBD I ECU. So basically all I need to do is add a VTEC wire and change the VTEC soleniod to any USDM VTEC solenoid. Also how can I tell for sure that it's an R motor and not a JDM GSR with the valve cover changed? I'll probably buy from HMO, so I'm sure I won't have to worry about this.

jonas

oh, this is going into an obd1 car, then you should be fine.

anyways, to tell the difference VISUALLY between the two besides the valve cover, the gsr intake manifold is a dual butterfly (and looks a lot different). and pay attention to the header like mentioned above.
also, the ITR head should have a dab of green paint on the distributor side
and should have a PR-3 stamp on the head as well, near the header.

jonas

read what Tom posted..its about a USDM b18c5, but the ECU issue is the same:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
So here some tech directly related to the 1992-1995 Civic in terms of my set-up:
B18C5 engine wiring into a 1992-1995 Civic:
IMO the USDM ITR swap is easier to swap in. I've done this swap 3 times already and it is 100% easy especially if you run a re-chipped P28 and even more so if you have a 1992 Civic or any 1992-1995 Si, VX, or EX with VTEC wires.

Here's what you'd need too do if you have a USDM ITR swap:

KEEP the ITR engine harness. Regardless of what others say the plugs all plug right in. This way you get to keep the newer ITR distributor and injectors, and there is no need to rewire anything. Again this is from experience, not hearsay.

You'll have a few extra plugs left over on the ITR harness because the ITR has a few extras that our Civics don't have, like ABS, etc. You vcan just hide the extra plugs.

Now there's a few different ways to get an ECU to work, and I'll list them from easiest to hardest:

1. Re-chipped P28. This will simply plug in. No need to wire up for a knock sensor because the P28 doesn't read for one. Better fuel, timing, VTEC x-over, and rev limiter = more power. OBD1 so no need at all to run any sort of extra sensors.

2. Kenji OBD2 jumper harness and JDM P73 ECU. I ran this on my motor for a while before the kenji ECU. You'll have to wire up a knock sensor wire and that's about it. Drawbacks are that this ECU has a 113-115 speed limiter and it doesn't make the power that the kenji-spec P28 does. ThisECU has OBD2 type plugs but IT RUNS AN OBD1 PROGRAM AND IT IS ONLY OBD2 IN PLUGS!!! I ran this ECU with no extra o2 sensor, no crank fluctuation bullshit, etc.

3. Jumper harness with USDM P73 ECU. Why? I wouldn't do this unless I was in Cali and it was necessary for smog bullshit. You'd have to wire up all the extra OBD2 bullshit and the ECU sucks compared to a re-chipped P28.

So that's for the USDM motors, but what about the JDM ITR swaps?

As Apexi-ITR has said the JDM harness can be used. It requires some stretching but it will work. If you must get the factory look then get any OBD2 type engine harness from any USDM B18C1 or B18C5 and then it will plug right in just like I said the USDM swap does.

As far as ECU stuff goes, really a P28 is the better choice again but you will need to add a VTEC oil pressure switch onto the JDM ITR motor because it doesn't have one and the P28 looks for one. Just pull an oil pressure switch from another VTEC motor - didn't you use a SOHC one Apexi-ITR?

Or you can run the jumper harness and O.E JDM P73 ECU. This will save you from having to add the oil pressure switch, but you'll have to add a knock sensor and this ECU still has the shitty speed limiter.

USDM ECU? But why?

That's about all I can think of right now. I run the kenji-spec P28 ECU in my 1992 CX hatchback and with this method and keeping the ITR engine harness I did not have to add one single wire at all! It was absolutely 100% plug and play!

So what about the brakes set-up I have? How does one go about putting GS-R 4-wheel discs on his or her 1992-1995 Civic?

I purchased all 4 corners of suspension from a 1998 Integra GS-R. This was all of the lower control arms, all 4 spindles, rear trailing arms with e-brake cables, and of course all four corners of the brakes. Everything was still bolted together when it arived and there is no need to take any of it apart unless you will be replacing the rotors (I recommend this) and brake pads. I also got the rear and front swaybars too, but I only used the rear one.

The entire rear trailing arms bolt right up from the Integra to the Civic. Hook up the e-brake cables and you're set in the rear.

Up front the entire spindles again will bolt right up from the Integra to the Civic.

So here's the ever-popular question about the brakes:

Which master cylinder, booster, and prop valve am I running?

I am running an Integra RS master cylinder and booster. Why the RS? The RS is the only 1994-up Integra WITHOUT ABS, so there was not a single bit of line bending or reflaring to get it in. I used the RS booster as well, but you could use an LS one if you cannot find the RS one.

I recommend buying a new M/C from Acura. They're listed at like $160.00 but you can get a better deal for sure - I'll be back with the part number.

There is only one potential problem with the RS m/c with an LS/GS-R booster, and it is easy to find and fix. Fit up the RS m/c to your booster and if it fits very flush very easily then you're fine. If you have to kind of push on it to fit it flush and it feels "spring loaded" then you must trim 3/4 of an inch off of the booster rod on the engine bay side. It's very easy to do.

I bolted in an Integra GS-R prop valve too, but I don't know what year it was. It had the exact same line configuration as the stock Civic one, but the only difference is that on the 1992-1993 Civics the bracket is flatter than the 1994-up Civic and Integra brackets - I simply flattened the GS-R one out and it bolted up.

This is 100% line bending and flaring free - 100% direct bolt-up.

If you have any questions about the set-up I run, then feel free to ask here. The pics are pretty and all, but I hope that some more good tech info comes from this thread too in regards to my particular set-up and why I chose some of the things that I did.

Thanks for looking y0!

Skeletor

Cool. I was really afraid I was going to have to buy a USDM motor cause I thought there were issues with the injectors and distributor. Now that I know it's basically the same, execpt for changing the VTEC solenoid, I may go with the JDM motor for more power.

R you serious

YOULL NEED A USDM THROTTLE BODY CABLE

If You Slip You Die

B18C5-EH2

I don't mean to **** in your Cheerios, but the JDM motors don't really put down much more power than the USDM motors.

I've had two local JDM Type R hybrids dyno to within 1-2 whp of me.

One had a few extra mods over me at the time and dynoed 1whp more than I did - that user is Apexi-ITR.

The other laid down almost 3whp more with still more mods, and since I've tuned mine I have 5 more ft/lbs. of torque and only 1 less whp than he does.

I like the idea of the USDM swap because you know more of it's history. The JDM motors are a bit more of a gamble overall IMO because the past is totally unknown. Mileage is a **** in the dark, and who knows what the car was used for originally.

A lot of good U.S yards know the exact mileage of their USDM swaps and even send you the guage cluster.

That coupled with the stuff jonas posted (that I originally posted) about the USDM swap being a smoother-going swap makes me a bigger fan of the USDM swap even though it might not be the "cool" thing to do.

R you serious

what year spec are we talking here tom? just curious

B18C5-EH2

One was a '98 spec - that was Hurrell/Apexi-ITR. He dynoed within 1whp with slightly more mods than I had. I still have my doubts as to whether or not it was indeed a '98 spec because of our cruising rpm in 2nd gear being the same at the same mph...

The other is a 95.5-97 spec and he rolled 177.9whp/125 torque with i/h/e and Kenji ECU untuned. I rolled 175whp/123 torque baseline with my USDM ITR swap with just i/e and Kenji ECU. After tuning I busted out 176.5 () and 129.8 torque.

I'm sure the motor that rolled the 177.9whp baseline will be near or over 180whp after tuning with Hondata S200 and probably at or above 130 torque as well.

Oh the guy with the 177.9whp motor is user blykins here on H-T.

SlowazzGSR

Your referring to Hp and torque numbers. Although, I agree with your statement for the most part, if you can score a 98+ JDM swap then IMO it is worth it. The final drive is already installed and even though that will not show on the dyno, it would show on a track. If the price was exactly the same for a 98 USDM swap and a 98 JDM swap, Id have to go with JDM for the tranny. I am partial though, since I do own a JDM R swapped civic.