Anthony Liardo

Okay here is my story. I have a 93 eg with a d16z6. Everything has been completely fine for the past 2+ years (~30,000-40,000 miles).

Starting around 2 months ago, my radar detector (that's plugged into the cigarette outlet) would reset every 10-20 seconds and sometimes not for a few minutes of driving. I just tolerated it, but it got worse, and then my radio would flash off and reset and it interrupted the music so I was annoyed. I took it to get tested and battery/starter/alternator were all fine (with alternator tested at 2,000 RPMs loaded and unloaded). I just left the radar detector unplugged and a few weeks later the radio would still reset sometimes. Then one night I had to have the ac, headlights, and radio on, and the lights everywhere started dimming and flashing and it almost stalled. The next day I did a quick inspection of the engine bay and it seemed that the positive terminal connected to the fuse box wasn't making a good connection. The screw seemed stripped but I got it to make better contact with the metal plate. After that my radio was fine, so after a few weeks of no problems I put the radar detector back on. After a week, it happened with the radar detector again so I unplugged it. It was fine for a month and I thought the problem was gone and I was eventually gonna plug the radar detector back in.




This Monday after work, I went to take a trip out from my house and when I started it, it clicked loud and all the lights went off and then they slowly came back and started clicking and flashing fast so I turned the key off. My car never doesn't start so I tried it again and the same result. When I get home I will upload a video of what happens when it's not jumped, and what happens when it is jumped. (When it's jumped, it cranks but there's no spark).




I have replaced: fuel pump, main relay (3 total relays), starter relay, ecu, ignition switch (3 total ignition switches), clutch ignition switch, starter, and distributor.




I have sanded to bare metal: battery negative terminal mounting point and transmission ground mounting point.




I have checked and cleaned: thermostat ground, transmission ground bracket surface, transmission ground bracket mounting surfaces, radiator support/valve cover ground, battery to starter contact, and the smaller starter terminal contact




I have removed so as to test for shorts: all heater motor/defroster relays, windshield fuse, accessory fuse, headlight fuses, horn fuse, signal fuse, and tail/license light fuse, and the alternator.




Pretty much ever non imperative fuse and the alternator.




Same result with every single thing I do. It started fully priming and acting normal when I put key to II position and sometimes it's weak and doesn't prime, but if I take it out and put it back to II, it primes and isn't weak. Voltage between battery positive and motor is 12.5v when everything primes, as well as battery voltage and yellow wire voltage on ignition switch (with ground measured as the actual ignition chamber). When I turn key to II and it doesn't prime the voltage for battery, battery ground to motor, and ignition chamber to yellow wire voltages are all 8-9v.




When key is out, voltage is 12.8v and battery is only a year old. When it is jump started, it always primes and goes to normal voltage when key is put to II. It also always cranks, but it's weak and there is no spark. I put a screwdriver into the spark plug wire and put the metal close to the intake manifold and no spark whatsoever.




I've checked as much of the wires as I can without really taking the whole car apart, and nothing seems wrong or like it might be draining the power.




Can somebody please help me? I tried to put as many details as I can, but if I missed anything, please ask.

mk378

You describe stuff that is obviously bad that you're not addressing, instead going wild replacing unrelated parts.

First you found the main terminal screw in the fuse box is stripped. You need to replace the box. I think a new one is less than $100 or remove one from a parts car.

The car does nothing unless you hook up a jump start. This means that the battery is flat, which is to be expected from either charging system failure and repeated cranks but no start. Recharge the battery fully with an AC powered charger. Take it to where you bought it and have them load test it and replace if it fails. Being less than 1 year old it should have full warranty.

A good, charged, battery will hold 9 or 10 volts at the battery posts with the starter turning, and more than 12 if it is merely the key on. Then it becomes a matter of following the circuits with a voltmeter to see where you lose power. If all the sections of the ignition system have power, follow the usual cranks but won't start troubleshooting drill.

Anthony Liardo

I didn't "go wild replacing unrelated parts." I actually thought it was the starter at first. Then I replaced the fuel pump because it was clicking with the main relay when it clicks continuously; also, when it was jumped it just cranked and I've had a bad fuel pump where it continuously cranks. (I thought maybe the fuel pump was priming but it was weak or something.) I actually had the new 155 lph fuel pump because I bought it for my future turbo build. I also happened to have the ignition switches and main relays, and I found the starter relay when I was looking for a new distributor. I don't even know why I'm explaining all of this because they definitely are related to the starting of a vehicle.

I didn't say the main terminal screw was stripped, I said it seemed stripped. If you must know, the nut was actually spinning because it wasn't pressed down into the plastic housing to hold it in place. I pushed it down while twisting and it tightened. When connected, voltage to the metal plate is exactly the same as if I touched the positive battery terminal.

The car actually does do something without it hooked up to a jump start. All of the accessories turn on and the headlights work and the horn works and the fuel pump primes. When it is turned past II on the ignition cylinder, it clicks and turns off (and the measured voltage is 5-6v and goes up to 8-9v in about 5 seconds.

I actually tried the battery from a new car and it did exactly what it does when it's hooked to a jump car or a power pack, it cranks but there's no spark. I don't know how to "follow the circuits." I honestly wouldn't be able to go off a technical graph of the car's circuit, I would need locations and steps.

Anthony Liardo

Bump. Can someone pitch in with an idea of what might be bad? Or even a detailed guide on how to "follow the circuit" and check for where the short might be?

Vector 25

Well you kinda did I mean no offense but you replaced the starter and main relay thinking they were bad but there are ways to test both and you can Google how to but anyways check your igniter or ignition control module under the dizzy the parts store can test it if the first one you go to cant try the next.

tony_2018

Our residential mod who actually handles these problems is no longer avail. Your best bet is to follow troubleshooting procedures in the FSM, field service manual. The actual Honda **** and not some haynes underwear crap.

mk378

Charge up the battery fully. If it won't hold a charge, replace it. You need to know the battery is good for testing the rest of the car.

Put back all the parts that you removed or disconnected.

Then assuming you still have a car that cranks but won't start, follow the regular "cranks but won't start" troubleshooting.

Anthony Liardo

Bump. I have now replaced the battery. Mine was bad, it had 1 cold cranking amp. With the new battery, it cranks but won't start just like when the previous one was jumped. I have also replaced the fuse box and it is still only cranking. I'm actually waiting for somebody to get home to test if there is any spark now.

Anthony Liardo

Bump. There is no spark, I have tested continuity from Ignitor pin on ECU all the way to distributor plug and there is continuity. When it cranks voltage from ground to distributor power pin (green and yellow) jumps from 0.03v to 0.4v
Obviously there's a draw somewhere but I don't really know what order the circuit goes in starting with the battery. Can somebody please help with what I need to test?

Anthony Liardo

Can somebody help me please? I actually get 12v to the black/yellow wire, but 0.4v to green/yellow wire when cranking. Is that one supposed to be 12v as well?
If im getting 12v to black/yellow, and there's no spark, could the distributor be bad? I got it brand new at autozone.

mk378

Turn key on but don't crank. Check engine light should go on then go out. Oil and battery lights should come on and stay on.

If distributor does not rotate (stripped timing belt etc), sparks will not fire.

Take distributor cap off and hold a grounded test wire near the coil output. If you get weak yellow sparks, coil is bad. Sparks should be blue and able to jump 1/2 inch or more.

Anthony Liardo

Thank you for the response. CEL does go out, and oil and battery stay on. I have verified that the timing belt is spinning, and the distributor is brand new and inside the camshaft, so I'm assuming it's spinning.
Wouldn't that test verify the coil is bad only if everything is getting power? I have 12v to the black/yellow wire (but I need to check the voltage when it's cranking), and 0.4v to the yellow/green wire. Since that's a low voltage, isn't it a wiring/ground/ecu problem? Or is it supposed to be low voltage even when cranking. Somebody please let me know

tony_2018

1st off double check that you installed the distributor correctly
2nd off you're gonna have to test the alternator yourself by checking the amperage coming from the alternator when the engine is idling.
3rd off you're gonna have to check all your grounds and connections going to and from the engine bay fusebox.

Anthony Liardo

I'm assuming you guys haven't read the thread. The alternator was tested loaded and unloaded and it's fine. Also, I have checked every ground, as well as the connections to and from the fuse box. The fuse box was replaced as well.
Can somebody please help me and let me know what voltage I should be seeing at the yellow/green wire?

tony_2018

I've had multiple times where the parts store tested and it came back good but the alternator wasn't. Its up to you if you want to keep passing up what we're saying to you about the alternator and continue with the rest of the suggestion.

Anthony Liardo

First of all, the engine is not starting so I don't know how I'd test it with the engine idling. Second of all, I've already tried starting it with the alternator disconnected and connected and it does the same thing. Can somebody please let me know what voltage should be coming out of the yellow/green wire when cranking?

rfmerrill

I get that it sucks when your car isn't working and you can't figure it out, but we're just random folks offering to help you for free on the internet, not a mechanic that you're paying.

If I had a copy of the service manual for your car I could possibly help you, but I don't, sorry

Anthony Liardo

Again, thanks for a response at least. I understand where you're coming from, but there are tons of very knowledgeable people on this forum. I've seen it for countless searches dating back over 10 years ago. All I'm asking for at this point is what voltage exactly the yellow/green wire on the distributor is supposed to get when cranking. And maybe a general idea of what might be wrong with my car that I haven't tried already

mk378

Have you tried the cap off spark test? You are looking for 3 things under the cap: rotor securely attached to the shaft, rotor rotates when cranking, and good sparks fire from the coil.

Bonus test: TDC the engine and confirm that the rotor is pointed to fire wire #1.

The signal from the ECU to the ICM is a logic-level pulse signal. It really needs to be observed with an oscilloscope to make much sense of it. With pulses, you will get different voltage readings depending on the meter you use. That is why Honda doesn't publish a spec for it.

----

At this point in a rather prolonged troubleshooting, it is helpful to forget everything that has been done previously, and assume nothing. You have a car that cranks but won't start. Check all its systems as if someone brought you the car to fix and you know nothing about its history.

tony_2018

Have you taken a look at the FAQ section to troubleshoot the distributor?

Anthony Liardo

UPDATE: Thank you guys for the help. It turns out, I installed the distributor incorrectly and broke the 2 metal prongs that insert into the camshaft. AutoZone was so awesome and gave me a new distributor without asking questions. With the new distributor and a new battery, it started with a bit of coaxing (3 extended cranks with full throttle).
Also, there was oil in the old cap of the old distributor, so either that or the wiring messed up the old ignitor or ignition coil. The car was wired with the positive battery terminal connected to the terminal for the alternator and the alternator was connected to the terminal for the positive battery. It has run fine for years so I don't know if this caused the ignitor or ignition coil to short, but it's wired correctly and I have a new battery. I'm so happy to have my car back

rfmerrill

distributor oil seals are a common failure on d16y8, probably also on d16z6