WickedHonda00

I need some accurate 1/4 mile times, horsepower and weight of your vehicles. I'm about to start a buildup of my 2000 civic coupe EX. The car weighs about 2600lb, which is kinda heavy for an older Honda. Regardless, I need to know what to expect with x amount of horsepower and 2600lbs + driver. Also, if there is anyone in here with the same car that has successfully reduced the weight to sub 2400lbs, please fill me in on how you did it. I know about the usual things like carbon fiber hood, trunk, fenders, wheels, back seats, etc. But I'm just not sure I can get the car below 2400lbs. Incase your wondering, this buildup is very goal oriented, and since I made a bet that after building my Honda from ground up, I could outrun a 68 Camaro SS 454 in EVERY ASPECT, I need my car as light as possible. The competition weighs about 3300-3500lbs with 530hp @ crank and probably 600+ft/lbs torque. I was told it would take 300whp or more to meet my goals. Little help with this please. ANY info is welcome, just stay informative and helpful please...

SkoundrelUSA

1) https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=858511

2) https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=858510

Done

edit: you're gonna get whooped lol

WickedHonda00

I'm not using a D series man. B series only. You didn't think I was gonna take a challenge like this with a single slammer did you? Naw, I won't stop until 400whp is achieved with 18psi, however, I just want to know what to expect.

SkoundrelUSA

I did I say you were using a D-series? NO. Did you mention what setup you have? NO.

OMGWTFBBQ? theres 2 links there HOLY MOSES!

WickedHonda00

my bad dude, I just started readin the first thread and noticed all d series, then it occured to me after I posted that you included b series as well. cmon man, I didn't intend to offend you. Just informing that's all. I appreciate the links though

Sleepy_Red_hatch

i would start whooping your e-*** for bench racing....but we all hate domestics. so here's my thaughts on the situation.

-strong clutch. get one. you need that power to stay to the floor.
-good tires. get 15's with 205-50-15 azenis
-good suspension. koni yellows/H&R race springs...amazing combo
-TORQUE. a B20/vtec can be build for relatively cheap and it will provide low end aswell as top end make sure to upgrade the rods...dont cheap out.
-B16A/B/ITR tranny with LSD, almost a must, short gearing and a limited slip.
-a GOOD TUNE for the frank motor (boosted, naturally)

SO IMPORTANT....WORK ON YOUR LAUNCHES!

copperfox

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(boosted, naturally)</TD></TR></TABLE>

oxymoron FTW!

Sleepy_Red_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by copperfox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

oxymoron FTW!</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol "naturally" refers to "obviously" rather then "the natural state that the motor is in usually"

Slopoke

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WickedHonda00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The competition weighs about 3300-3500lbs with 530hp @ crank and probably 600+ft/lbs torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depending on tires, gears, suspension, etc, etc, your are talking about possibly a 10sec 1/4 car here.

Go to the Drag racing forum and look around at what hp #s guys in 2600lbs fwd cars are making to reach 10s.

Its just a tad more than 300whp. lol

SkoundrelUSA

Azenis suck for drag IMO...

Luserkid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sleepy_Red_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would start whooping your e-*** for bench racing....but we all hate domestics.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

uhh.... speak for yourself I love the sound of a big block chevy with a wild *** cam on open header.

If money is no object then go all out. You could get that car down to 2300lbs if not less if you remove evrything thats not needed (AC/Heater, get drum brakes, if you have a sun roof gut it out and get the CF plate, get lighter seats, remove the tar, etc) Theres alot you could do. Then if you want to go all motor try getting 260whp, if you want to go turbo try getting 500whp. But even with all this if you cant drive youll still loose.

Archidictus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WickedHonda00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, if there is anyone in here with the same car that has successfully reduced the weight to sub 2400lbs, please fill me in on how you did it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Take your interior out, take your AC system out, take your power steering system out, get a Kirkey aluminum racing seat, get a tiny battery, get a small-capacity fuel cell, remove firewall mat and all sound insulation. You can EASILY hit 2400 pounds in that pig of a car. Also, you didn't tell us if this was going to be a street car or not, which was pretty stupid on your part considering the difference between a 12-second street Civic and a 12-second race Civic; you didn't give us a budget and you didn't give us any performance information on the Camaro. "Possible" HP and TQ figures and a rough weight estimate doesn't help anything. I've seen a 79 Corvette with a built 454 putting out 496 wheel HP and over 600 wheel torque run consistant 15's in the quarter, so give me something worthwhile or don't ask this question in the first place.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know about the usual things like carbon fiber hood, trunk, fenders, wheels, back seats, etc. But I'm just not sure I can get the car below 2400lbs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Carbon fiber doesn't do dick but lighten your wallet with these cars. You can save 10 pounds on a hood, 2 pounds per fender and - after reinstalling all the hardware and lights on your trunk - maybe 15 pounds on a hatch/decklid. You can save more than all of that combined by ditching air conditioning or going with a Hawker battery.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">since I made a bet that after building my Honda from ground up, I could outrun a 68 Camaro SS 454 in EVERY ASPECT.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well let's see here. The 68 Camaro SS can't turn to save its life, so your stock suspension will be more than adequate to outhandle the car. Depending on if slicks are allowed, you're probably looking at competition that runs around a mid-to-low 12 on a great day. Then again, you didn't tell us anything about his car, so that could be completely wrong in either extreme.

This thread doesn't belong here, by the way, and even among threads that shouldn't be posted here, this one is pretty lame. Give us more information or GTFO.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sleepy_Red_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...but we all hate domestics.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're the biggest dumbfuck in this forum if you think for one tenth of a second that anyone with half a brain would take a Civic over a 1968 Camaro SS. "Hating" domestics is about as stupid as hating people of another race. All stereotypes are stupid and all bigots deserve to get some teeth knocked out.

Sleepy_Red_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You're the biggest dumbfuck in this forum if you think for one tenth of a second that anyone with half a brain would take a Civic over a 1968 Camaro SS. "Hating" domestics is about as stupid as hating people of another race. All stereotypes are stupid and all bigots deserve to get some teeth knocked out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

take it easy arch...i would literally rather dirve a civic then a 68 'rero, if i had to choose between both, id take the 'rero and sell it. honnestly. dont hate me for having my preferances. im pretty dogmatic about the honda line, althogh for the moment i can afford the cars i REALLY want. (i.e. s2000, TSX and NSX) but teh civic will do for now. who REALLY need 600ft/lbs on the street?

del sol1658

I think it would be badass to build the d series.
Save the sohc

RTE117

2600 lbs? My 6th gen EX coupe weighed 2410 dry.

garrettej8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTE117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2600 lbs? My 6th gen EX coupe weighed 2410 dry. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think the curb weight for 6th gen coupes is like 2513lbs.

WickedHonda00

You guys don't know how to ask a question nicely. I can tell that already. I was EXPECTING you to ask questions, it's better to make a short thread starter so everyone will actually read it instead of giving a 2 pager full of info....so here goes...

Both cars will be street driven. The Camaro will have street tires, which I've already talked to the owner about that as well. The tires will not be adequate for the power given to them. In other words, it won't be DR's, or anything close. The car will not hook up, so I'm not particularly worried about the 60' times, it the times after his tires hook up that I'm worried about. No, it won't be a 10sec car without slicks and a stiffer suspension, neither of which he has on the car. He's using a high stall converter although I don't remember what exact stall it is. It's a unibody frame, incase you might want to know the chassis specs on the car. Both cars will run from 93 octane. I would like to keep my car streetable, since it would obviously be a greater feat if I could manage to beat him with a street driven Honda. Regardless, the owner of the Camaro (my uncle) believes that no Honda setup can beat his car, race or street setup. I'm here to prove him wrong. Here's my plan so far... my philosophy is different than most, since I believe I don't need 300ft/lbs tq to make the car move, only ahigh revving engine and horsepower. Torque, although helpful at roll on racing and street driving in general, is something I'm not going for in this setup, since I'm using street tires only. The furthest I would ever go with tires are the BFG Drag Radials, which are still street tires, just not the greatest in bad weather conditions. With that said, I've planned to use a b16a, possibly re-sleeved with Darton MID sleeves, using IB Spec Wiseco Pistons, IB spec H-Beams, OEM bearings, stock crank, if the block is sleeved--&gt;84mm, if not then just 81.5mm with a block guard. Initially I plan to leave the head stock, with the exception of springs and retainers. Use an SC61 turbo, Full-Race manifold, Edelbrock intake, the rest will be the norm, such as Tial wastegate, 2.5" intercooler piping using the "backdoor design" from full race. 3inch downpipe with a Thermal R&D 3inch exhaust. I plan to start with 660cc injectors and atleast a Hondata S200, probably s300. I'll tune for 10psi and try to make 340whp (it's been done before from IB's motors), then I will try my best to squeeze 400whp from 15-16psi. If that turns out well, I can count on 450whp once I piddle with the head by adding 90CFM to it. (Roughly 40-45whp potential)
I'm not an idiot, I know more than your typical person when it comes to performance and racing, but I was hoping TUNERS could tell me something about it, not someone who has never done this before. I need advice from experience, and tell me where I would be going wrong. I'm not tryin to run up my bill $20,000 so no, I don't want the stroked/sleeved block unless I must have that motor to make the car run extremely fast. I really don't think it takes 500whp, 350wtq to make a 2400lb-2600lb car get into the 10's anyway. Granted, I'm considering that it would also take a good driver and a drag setup. I think 400whp, maybe 450whp will do the trick, and to be honest, I think 400whp will run off and leave a big block Camaro that's probably making 450whp-475whp after the first 100' of racing. The car weighs almost a thousand pounds heavier than my Civic. So no, I don't think I'll need more power to outrun him, I'll just need a car that can hook very good and be able to get awesome 60' times. This is why I don't want 400wtq because I want to actually use my tires instead of melt them. Just what I THINK, however, I'd love for an experienced tuner to tell me what the best thing is to do.

Oh yeah, someone said something about azenis tires. Well, I'm going to use 16X7.5 wheels in the front anyways, and using 225X50X16, which I feel will be effective on the street. I would like to use 15's but again, I want this car to be presentable on the street, plus I dont think BFG Drag Radials are made in 15's, but I could be wrong.


Modified by WickedHonda00 at 1:15 PM 8/11/2006


Modified by WickedHonda00 at 1:23 PM 8/11/2006

bmoua

good luck bro...you should started off with a hatch bro haha...expletive domestics...

WickedHonda00

I agree, I'm wishin I had an H22 hatch or CRX right now.

Sleepy_Red_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WickedHonda00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree, I'm wishin I had an H22 hatch or CRX right now. </TD></TR></TABLE>

follow my guidelines and youll win.

yeehonda

In my opinion its going to cost a lot more money than you think to make 450whp, especially if you're using the parts in your last post. If you plan on going over 350whp (depending on who tunes the car) you're probably going to want to re-sleeve if its going to be a daily driver. You can get BFG's in 15's, but I don't know how you're going to fit 225/50/16's in a civic if its lowered to any degree. Why don't you think 15's would look "presentable" on the street if they have a big drag radial around them? Good luck anyway.

outtacontrolsol

the b16 is a good strong bet, mine runs like the devil. you've got a damn near bullet-proof bottom end that can handle a fair amount of boost. What kind of compression are you looking at? I had a friend with a USM GSR running 9 lbs and I watched him walk down an E46 M3. The Azenis are a sure thing for handling and surprisingly good on drag. My 615's can take a full throttle shift @ 8200rpm and not chirp on dry smooth pavement, and I have 11-1 pistons and a Skunk2 intake manifold with CTR cams, so stick with those. You did after all say this was an ALL ASPECTS race. Another suggestion would be the H22 thing. Massive torque gains stock (50 ft/lbs and 30hp over JDM B16A) but weighs 85 pounds more than b16. I physically watched an h22 with a 100 shot outrun a 460c.i. '68 Mustang w/ 4.10 Detriot Locker rear. W-O-W. EJ coupe, full interior. If you don't like any of this you might want to program in an inexpensive, relatively mild shot of nitrous (50-75 shot) to give you that extra ummf for when you and the Camero hook up. Think of it as an insurance policy, only if you need it. Easy 35-60 hp depending on setup. Oh yeah, take your nitrous like you take your *****... wet.

WickedHonda00

Compression will be about 8.8/1 Wiseco turbo pistons w/ skirts coated and the tops w/ ceramic coating. Those are $600 for the set. 81.5mm bore. I'll probably use a block guard, since it will only cost me another $100 dollars to buy and install, cheap n easy insurance. I'll be using Hondata w/ an SC61 turbo and 660cc injectors. I hope I can squeeze 350whp out of this setup at medium boost settings (12-15psi). I'm not concerned with questions like "how much hp will my sleeves be able to take, and such and such." The pistons and rods will go out long before my sleeves would, besides..if I'm only running moderate boost, and the car isn't running hot and lean, regardless how much power I make, I don't think it will matter to the sleeves just as long as I keep everything tuned and cool enough. Thanks for the advice.

Ricey McRicerton

I feel bad that I missed this clusterfuck of a thread for this long.

1. No bench racing.
2. Nobody wants a civic over a classic Camaro.
3. Even if you do manage to outrun him, you still drive a POS civic.
4. I hate domestics is the dumbest crap I've ever heard.