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I just got done replacing the complete head, hooked everything up and actually made a full engine video before disconnecting anything because of start issues from my last engine pull to swap the tranny.
No check engine, just went through all my ground wires the harness everything scrapped and connected...
Car started up on first turn then died due to the distributor not being timed yet, ran for about 6-8 seconds before quitting, wont start up again tried everything I can think of pulled a plug, plug gets spark and spark plug itself is sparking after connecting it to the plug and visually checking. swapped spark plugs and still no start anyhow. ( felt it was worth a shot). checked for fuel pressure at the rail, gets fuel, figures as it did start and run.
No bad pinging clanking sounds when it did run sounded as it should.
15 hours in currently no sleep, need this damn thing to run already......any ideas please feel free, but don't feel free to ask me what I already posted, and I'm not interested in guessing/part buying to see if it works.
Head replacement means new head gasket, I'm assuming it's an MLS gasket.
After you torqued the bolts on the head to spec, did you let it sit a minimum of 1 hour before adding any fluids and trying to run it?
I'm also assuming you cleaned the block properly, measured the block for warp, and sent the head in for full diagnostics measurements before putting the head back on (warp/surface RA/Pressure test).
Your assumption that it died 6-8 seconds due to ignition timing may not be correct. If the head gasket didn't hold between two cylinders.... it would probably die and not start again.
It started but died, right? It has spark, good. But did you go further and inspect if the spark is good or weak? Weak spark = not running. Spark checker thingys aren't expensive.
Did you measure the compression? Like tomcat said maybe the head gasket murdered itself. If it won't start, but it cranks, then compression test the engine. Compression gauges can be rented so you dont need to waste $$$ buying the tool.
there's fuel at the rail, but did you measure the exact pressure? If its low, it won't start. Maybe you should actually measure the fuel's PSI. Idk if anyone rents fluid pressure tools, but does it hurt to ask? Nope.
and finally, does it have airflow? Idk what could mess this up exactly..
Verify mechanical timing is correct? Maybe it was off and you managed to bend some valves now it won't start? Valve lash to spec? Compression test yet?
Not just that, if he didn't have the cam's markings positioned correctly that could break **** too. I had the wonderful opportunity of installing a timing belt with a lower timing cover that DIDNT FIT RIGHT, AND WAS BURN SO IT HAD NO MARKINGS. Boy was that fun as the first time I put a T. Belt on..
plus, b7s suck because the cam's timing markings are two little tabs that have to be "level", yet you can't see it well with the motor in the car becauses theres yakno a frame rail in the way. (unless you undo all the driver side mounts and jack the engine up). Plus to really see it easily, without driving yourself crazy, you need to jack up the rear of the car too so the chassis is level, otherwise you're stuck trying to level two points on a surface that isn't level. The variants where there's two marks to line up with each other rather than with the engine itself, I'm sure it'd be much easier.
anyway, OP, did you turn your engine over by the crank pully bolt to make sure there wasn't interference between the pistons and valves before starting it? Installing valves isn't hard, just remember to check that they dont wiggle like crazy. Remember to change the guide's valve stem seals, and to pour some oil into the seal before installation. It goes bottom spring retainer, seal, spring, top retainer, and then keepers. There's a tool so you can just hammer that **** together, it looks way easier than using an old fashioned valve spring compressor since most of those aren't intended to be used on our hondurr cylinder heads.. Uhm, and dont forget to lap the valves and clean up the ports. Polishing the ports can add sum good HP yo
well I did have a nice write up to post but of course it auto logged out and refused to post my very detailed post..... what a site..
anyhow i'll be writing this straight forward as possible as I can't recall everything I typed here it goes.
I tested the compression yesterday after a night of rest was up for 50 hours. the test displayed bad compression, 120 over all four cylinders. (most likely why the car started first turn but refused after).
I made the stupidest mistake of not getting the head or blocked checked by a machine shop because my month has been a meat grinder of hell and did not have the cash as I got ditched on rent/bills....plus I walk 10 miles to work and back every night :D..
moving forward now.. here is what I replaced, Head gasket (of course) intake gasket, exhaust gasket, timing belt, throttle body gasket ( as I had to clean the intake mani due to it was disgusting and neglected by previous owners. I also replaced the head bolts with new, and used clean engine oil also torqued to spec according to Haynes manual.
process of elimination, 1st ask brother still living at home for more $$$ (cannot skip this step). 2nd get the head checked out by the shop, this may be a stupid question but I'll ask anyhow, should I get the block also checked?. 3rd replaced all gaskets again.. but this time I'll be picking up a FEL-PRO permatorque MLS gasket $43 oh boy oh boy :D..
any suggestions? all help is appreciated, thanks for reading my post and taking the time to help everyone. Thank you Tomcat39 for letting me know that I can't cut a very important corner although some can understand when your broke you hope for the best but usually get the worst lol.
It started but died, right? It has spark, good. But did you go further and inspect if the spark is good or weak? Weak spark = not running. Spark checker thingys aren't expensive.
Did you measure the compression? Like tomcat said maybe the head gasket murdered itself. If it won't start, but it cranks, then compression test the engine. Compression gauges can be rented so you dont need to waste $$$ buying the tool.
there's fuel at the rail, but did you measure the exact pressure? If its low, it won't start. Maybe you should actually measure the fuel's PSI. Idk if anyone rents fluid pressure tools, but does it hurt to ask? Nope.
and finally, does it have airflow? Idk what could mess this up exactly..
weird that it started but now it won't, good luck
I actually did not test the fuel pressure as I don't have that tool on hand but it does interest me to know if everything is working properly, something I may check out but I don't think this is the issue with the no start I am having currently but I'll keep it in mind and no I will not throw it out.
Verify mechanical timing is correct? Maybe it was off and you managed to bend some valves now it won't start? Valve lash to spec? Compression test yet?
Not quite sure if the valve lash is to spec, hopefully the shop will let me know if it is, when the car was running for that short period it was pretty sound I did not hear any knocks or odd sounds coming from the engine until it died and of course puttered a little nothing unusual though.
If you have feeler gauges and a precision straight edge (about $100 bucks US for them) you can easily check your block for warp yourself. If not then you need the machine shop to do it.
Keep in mind, the machine shop has a 50% chance of finding your head and block to be in good condition, but they're gonna still mill it and charge you hundreds for just that. And another $100/hour for disassembly. Usually you can spend less than $100 and get the machine shop's straight edge tool, a brass feeler gauge, and a spark checker...
for fuel you can try and crank it a few times and if you smell fuel by the exhaust then you most likely have fuel. or you can do a ghetto style check and pullthe spark plugs, then have someone crank the motor over and you look into the cylinder with a flash light to see if fuel is being sprayed in. but please be careful and wear eye pro.
Everytime I see 120 compression I have to ask, were you at WOT? Only asking because The one time I did the test outside the car with a remote starter, I didn't hold the throttle body open and got 120 on all cylinders.
I took the head to the shop and got it cleaned up and resurfaced while the head was there I picked up a MLS gasket, Once I got everything together I pulled another all nighter and assembled the engine this time with success and great compression.
So far its been driving great, even with a different head I'm still burning Oil though, I ran the pistons up and down while I had the head off and did not see any oil running past the rings but I'm not sure if I am able to check that in that fashion.
Maybe the new head requires new valve stem seals like my old one did or the rings are giving up down there.
Lately I been getting a few things out of the way as to replacing the upper control arms as the old ones were really in bad shape like could of died shape... and replaced the exhaust manifold with a new header and down pipe because my old manifold was barely alive missing a stud and a stripped front stud I had to vice grip the flanges together to do the daily.
engine seems solid everywhere else besides the oil burning situation, if it were the rings what would I need to get done with the short block and what am I looking at needing to pick up from the parts store.
my guess is both valve seals and oil control rings, but they all use oil. find yourself an oem rebuild kit, rockauto.com has a VERY cheap kit, seems you're budget minded. id start there.
The new head I got could of had bad valve seals as the oil burning has seemed to of got worse. I do have some on hand to do that job.
I'm looking into getting the block checked, cleaned and honed, bore if needed and place a order on rockauto for a rebuild kit + gaskets/seals.
I went to car quest for my head work and they did a great job, not sure what there block prices are I'll have to give em a call once I have the opportunity to tear it down. Looking at a new starter already.
Looking at picking up a 03 Accord with the K24 130-160K miles early next year and putting this civic on project duty.
I find myself almost giving up on this car but something always tells me I'll be bored without her.
The new head I got could of had bad valve seals as the oil burning has seemed to of got worse. I do have some on hand to do that job.
I'm looking into getting the block checked, cleaned and honed, bore if needed and place a order on rockauto for a rebuild kit + gaskets/seals.
I went to car quest for my head work and they did a great job, not sure what there block prices are I'll have to give em a call once I have the opportunity to tear it down. Looking at a new starter already.
Looking at picking up a 03 Accord with the K24 130-160K miles early next year and putting this civic on project duty.
I find myself almost giving up on this car but something always tells me I'll be bored without her.
I hear if they hot tanked the head with the valve seals in place it pretty much destroys them.
I suspect a machine shop assumes you will be replacing them before assembly.
Clean-Brite 209 is a caustic hot tank cleaner formulated for heavy-duty cleaning, degreasing, carbon removal, paint stripping and rust removing applications in industries such as engine rebuilding, electroplating and metal fabrication. This formula will tolerate very heavy dirt load without staining. It prevents re-deposition of dirt on cleaned surfaces and maintains clean tank appearance. When properly maintained, it will substantially out-perform its competitors in cleaning efficiency and tank life. Clean-Brite 209 performs well at low concentration or temperature. Contains no toxic chemicals, and when neutralized it is completely biodegradable
If it can strip paint and rust, I can only imagine what it does to rubber even if it is Viton rubber. It's caustic so either is acid or a base. Either way, it eats at stuff. Rubber will not stand up to caustics.
Just throwing these up not sure if the pictures will help but the cylinder walls seemed fine although I did not check them physically they did not seem to show any ware visually.
Those pistons look really clean, that isn't a pic immediately after pulling the head is it?
Both my motors have some to moderate carbon build up on the pistons. Hard to believe that is an after use picture of the block. The whole thing looks just way to clean.
My brother cleaned the tops of the pistons but the cylinder walls seemed okay to me.
Today I was driving and wanted to test the throttle for a few seconds as I've driven like a granny for a bit now.
After opening it up it was better then before but not really what I expected, also the throttle seems more responsive after pressing the throttle to the floor. The throttle feels off though as it took it longer to shift from 2nd to 3rd, it refused till it was higher in the RPM's.
Seems I need to adjust the cables, also coming from a stop and opening up 3/4 or full throttle the engine will stumble and not rev like Honda's are famous for.
Fuel pressure check already clicks for me and checking the injectors but I am also wondering if this has to deal with the valve seals leaking and oil causing a issue in the cylinders.
I installed a new intake manifold gasket upon assembly and torqued, in to outer to specifications, all vacuum lines are secure with no leaks that I know of new fuel filter was installed in march this year.
09-30-2014, 02:20 PM
D15B7 Won't start after head replacement.
