This Honda GSR Swap Is Getting To Be A PITA!
08-12-2008, 06:00 PM
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This Honda GSR Swap Is Getting To Be A Pain In The ***!
Ok.....I got everything i needed then i was told by my mechanic that the GSR bracket that came with the engine was too big and would not fit so he told me to go and get a '00 civic si front and rear brackets from honda and i did. Then when i got the brackets to him he said that the rear bracket would fit at two parts (the two top parts) and could not get the bottom part to bolt because it could not fit. He's telling me that they gave me a 5 speed bracket instead of of an auto one. The part #'s honda gave me for the brackets are: 11910-P30-000 & 50827-S04-N10.
So im trying to get some info on the whole bracket issue and need to know if the m/t and a/t brackets difference matters? (I need a a/t bracket) And could anyone tell me the part # if they know it. Thanks.
So im trying to get some info on the whole bracket issue and need to know if the m/t and a/t brackets difference matters? (I need a a/t bracket) And could anyone tell me the part # if they know it. Thanks.
08-12-2008, 09:40 PM
#3
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Re: This Honda GSR Swap Is Getting To Be A Pain In The ***! (Michael1989)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Michael1989 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok.....I got everything i needed then i was told by my mechanic that the GSR bracket that came with the engine was too big and would not fit so he told me to go and get a '00 civic si front and rear brackets from honda and i did. Then when i got the brackets to him he said that the rear bracket would fit at two parts (the two top parts) and could not get the bottom part to bolt because it could not fit. He's telling me that they gave me a 5 speed bracket instead of of an auto one. The part #'s honda gave me for the brackets are: 11910-P30-000 & 50827-S04-N10.
So im trying to get some info on the whole bracket issue and need to know if the m/t and a/t brackets difference matters? (I need a a/t bracket) And could anyone tell me the part # if they know it. Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The '99-'00 Civic Si only comes in manual transmission. There is no auto version.
I checked the part numbers for you.
BRKT, ENGINE MOUNT
11910-P30-000
99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI (KA 5MT)
94-97 DEL SOL 2DR (KA 5MT)
BRACKET, RR.
50827-S04-N10
99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI (KA 5MT)
So im trying to get some info on the whole bracket issue and need to know if the m/t and a/t brackets difference matters? (I need a a/t bracket) And could anyone tell me the part # if they know it. Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The '99-'00 Civic Si only comes in manual transmission. There is no auto version.
I checked the part numbers for you.
BRKT, ENGINE MOUNT
11910-P30-000
99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI (KA 5MT)
94-97 DEL SOL 2DR (KA 5MT)
BRACKET, RR.
50827-S04-N10
99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI (KA 5MT)
08-13-2008, 04:55 AM
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Re: This Honda GSR Swap Is Getting To Be A Pain In The ***! (Michael1989)
As NOFX stated, there was no automatic Si, that bracket just doesn't exist, at least not in north america, it might in Japan. You can try the original civic bracket and see if that fits, i'm doubtful that it does, but i've seen reports that say it will. Or if that doesn't work you'll have to fab something up.
08-13-2008, 05:27 AM
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Its going to be going into a '96 civic coupe....the mechanic doing the swap is telling me to get one from a auto transmission SI but i also checked and i didnt see an a/t SI. But i do have one from the honda dealership but it does not bolt up the mechanic says and he cant get it to either. What do I do?????
08-13-2008, 05:42 AM
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Re: (Michael1989)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Michael1989 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What do I do?????</TD></TR></TABLE>
Again, there is no 6th gen civic that came with an automatic B-series
You can:
A. Fabricate a mount
B. come to your senses and just a drop a manual in that actually bolts up with factory mounts.
Again, there is no 6th gen civic that came with an automatic B-series
You can:
A. Fabricate a mount
B. come to your senses and just a drop a manual in that actually bolts up with factory mounts.
08-13-2008, 06:11 AM
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Re: (94EG8)
Just thought i'd add this, you said earlier you were planning to swap to a 5 speed later anyway, you might as well do it now. That said its your car and your money and you can do what you want with it. But i am trying to warn you, you're going to run into numerous issues with this swap and depending on how much your mechanic knows about doing this type of swap you may end up with something that never runs right, don't laugh if happens.
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08-13-2008, 06:32 AM
#8
Former Moderator
Re: (94EG8)
THERE ARE NO MOUNTS THAT ALLOW AN AUTO B SERIES SWAP TO DROP INTO AN EK CHASSIS
My shop did one of these 5-6 years ago, and IMO it was a huge error in judgement on the former shop manager's judgement to even undertake that project.
A few things:
An auto B series tranny DOES NOT CLEAR the EK passenger side frame rail. You have to *gasp* cut the freaking frame rail and notch a section out of it to clear the tranny case. This IMO is reason #1 that it's a horrible idea.
CUSTOM mounts must be fabbed up for topside and rear tranny mounts/brackets. Your mechanic better be handy with a welder and steel, or else this swap will not happen, period. We tried literally every mount/bracket combo known and nothing lined it all up. This was a 1998 Integra LS auto swap into a 1997 Civic LS 4 door auto.
Lastly how on earth are you going to run the swap and the auto tranny? I wasn't immersed in that swap we did years ago, but from what I gathered then there are key differences in how the Integra auto tranny is controlled and how the Civic auto tranny is controlled enough so that a proper ECU that doesn't throw codes or screw up tranny shift points is impossible to find.
Cliff notes:
An auto B swap in an EK chassis is a horrible idea.
My shop did one of these 5-6 years ago, and IMO it was a huge error in judgement on the former shop manager's judgement to even undertake that project.
A few things:
An auto B series tranny DOES NOT CLEAR the EK passenger side frame rail. You have to *gasp* cut the freaking frame rail and notch a section out of it to clear the tranny case. This IMO is reason #1 that it's a horrible idea.
CUSTOM mounts must be fabbed up for topside and rear tranny mounts/brackets. Your mechanic better be handy with a welder and steel, or else this swap will not happen, period. We tried literally every mount/bracket combo known and nothing lined it all up. This was a 1998 Integra LS auto swap into a 1997 Civic LS 4 door auto.
Lastly how on earth are you going to run the swap and the auto tranny? I wasn't immersed in that swap we did years ago, but from what I gathered then there are key differences in how the Integra auto tranny is controlled and how the Civic auto tranny is controlled enough so that a proper ECU that doesn't throw codes or screw up tranny shift points is impossible to find.
Cliff notes:
An auto B swap in an EK chassis is a horrible idea.
08-13-2008, 12:55 PM
#9
Former Moderator
Re: This Honda GSR Swap Is Getting To Be A Pain In The ***! (Michael1989)
Someone brought up the point to me that there are B series auto EKs on other countries.
This is true.
There were also auto B series EFs, and EGs as well. Much like the JDM/Euro EF Civics/CRXs that came with B series engines, their chassis is actually different than our own USDM 88-91 Civic/CRX in that the mount locations and even framerails are different, thus the reason why we have to buy mount kits and bang framerail/rear X member to do a B swap in our chassis here.
It might be possible to locate the stock B series auto mounts from an overseas auto B EK, but the problem with our chassis passenger frame rail still exists.
This is true.
There were also auto B series EFs, and EGs as well. Much like the JDM/Euro EF Civics/CRXs that came with B series engines, their chassis is actually different than our own USDM 88-91 Civic/CRX in that the mount locations and even framerails are different, thus the reason why we have to buy mount kits and bang framerail/rear X member to do a B swap in our chassis here.
It might be possible to locate the stock B series auto mounts from an overseas auto B EK, but the problem with our chassis passenger frame rail still exists.
08-17-2008, 04:00 PM
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Ok. I got the engine in and everything hooked up but some of the senors that are on the D16 that i had will not go with the B18 becuause the B18 does not have the inputs....so they will be left out. The engine starts but the gsr manifold is crap (a butterfly manifold) and it keeps the petal SUPER stiff and am told to get a Skunk2 manifold which will fix that problem. Then the GSR ECU will not hook up to the wiring harness and i need a new one or i could chip the stock single cam one (Which I might end up doing).
Also the "D4" light on the dashboard keeps blinking. Dont know why? And just need to get the exhaust modified to fit and connect to the header downpipe. (Leaves a gap and needs to be turned to line up to be able to connect)
If anyone has any suggestions on any of the problems that have occured be free to let me know.
Also the "D4" light on the dashboard keeps blinking. Dont know why? And just need to get the exhaust modified to fit and connect to the header downpipe. (Leaves a gap and needs to be turned to line up to be able to connect)
If anyone has any suggestions on any of the problems that have occured be free to let me know.
08-17-2008, 04:26 PM
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Re: (Michael1989)
did you add in iacv and butterfly sensors? that would cause some problems with the intake being crappy,. here is a link to help you out http://technet.ff-squad.com/ also what ecu are you running? a p72 should hook up no problem
08-17-2008, 05:31 PM
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Re: (36Chitownrunnin)
The GSR ECU is a P72 and the Civic is a P2P here are some pics of the GSR....
The manifold I was told that i could just get an adapter for the gsr one but dont know where to. And i checked all the sensors and there good but the throttle cable is to long and prevents it from giving off the perfect amount of gas to speed up the car, i was told its because of the butterfly manifold (its old and isnt really used anymore) Thats why i want the Skunk2 manifold.
This is all for a '96 Civic GSR Swap....if anyone wants to know what vehicle this is to.
Modified by Michael1989 at 7:12 PM 8/17/2008
Modified by Michael1989 at 7:13 PM 8/17/2008
The manifold I was told that i could just get an adapter for the gsr one but dont know where to. And i checked all the sensors and there good but the throttle cable is to long and prevents it from giving off the perfect amount of gas to speed up the car, i was told its because of the butterfly manifold (its old and isnt really used anymore) Thats why i want the Skunk2 manifold.
This is all for a '96 Civic GSR Swap....if anyone wants to know what vehicle this is to.
Modified by Michael1989 at 7:12 PM 8/17/2008
Modified by Michael1989 at 7:13 PM 8/17/2008
08-18-2008, 09:12 AM
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Re: (Michael1989)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Michael1989 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The engine starts but the gsr manifold is crap (a butterfly manifold) and it keeps the petal SUPER stiff</TD></TR></TABLE>
That would more likely be the butterfly valve in the throttle body sticking, an aftermarket manifold wont fix that, an aftermarket throttle body will though.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Michael1989 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then the GSR ECU will not hook up to the wiring harness and i need a new one or i could chip the stock single cam one (Which I might end up doing).</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think your going to have to make that GS-R ECU work, due to differences in how civic and integra automatic transmissions are controlled (civics use the ECU, integras use a seperate TCU that you will have to wire up) OBD2 ECUs can be chipped contrary to popular belief but its very uncommon, either because most people aren't equipped to do it or because its expensive I assume, but even at that your still left with the transmission issue.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Michael1989 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also the "D4" light on the dashboard keeps blinking. Dont know why? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats the ecu throwing a transmission trouble code.
That would more likely be the butterfly valve in the throttle body sticking, an aftermarket manifold wont fix that, an aftermarket throttle body will though.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Michael1989 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then the GSR ECU will not hook up to the wiring harness and i need a new one or i could chip the stock single cam one (Which I might end up doing).</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think your going to have to make that GS-R ECU work, due to differences in how civic and integra automatic transmissions are controlled (civics use the ECU, integras use a seperate TCU that you will have to wire up) OBD2 ECUs can be chipped contrary to popular belief but its very uncommon, either because most people aren't equipped to do it or because its expensive I assume, but even at that your still left with the transmission issue.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Michael1989 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also the "D4" light on the dashboard keeps blinking. Dont know why? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats the ecu throwing a transmission trouble code.
08-18-2008, 09:57 AM
#14
Former Moderator
Re: (Michael1989)
What throttle cable is being used? It needs to be a GS-R cable if you have the GS-R IM.
The D4 light? Like I said before, good luck with that. We never found a way to get rid of it, or to get the transmission shifting flawlessly. The owner eventually went to a 5-speed in the end due to auto complications.
The D4 light? Like I said before, good luck with that. We never found a way to get rid of it, or to get the transmission shifting flawlessly. The owner eventually went to a 5-speed in the end due to auto complications.
08-24-2008, 09:02 PM
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Re: (egb16pg)
Ok then i just learned alot in this thread. Guess my g/f wont be getting an Auto B swap into her Ek anytime soon. Is it possible on the 92-95 chassis?
08-25-2008, 04:33 AM
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Re: (EJ1_Sleeper)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1_Sleeper »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok then i just learned alot in this thread. Guess my g/f wont be getting an Auto B swap into her Ek anytime soon. Is it possible on the 92-95 chassis? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think it has a little better chance of working, but it would be a whole lot easier to just teach her to drive stick, its not exactly rocket science.
I think it has a little better chance of working, but it would be a whole lot easier to just teach her to drive stick, its not exactly rocket science.
09-12-2008, 06:33 AM
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the reason why your throwing a D4 light code is your using a wrong ecu, you got to have an auto ecu. plus the car is not going to run right if you dont have a automatic transmision ecu for it too. ive done 2 auto JDM B18C1 into EG hatch and EK hatch. your going to need to use brackets off auto integra ls and as far as the wiring goes, its going to be a bitch. what motor are you putting in. if its a auto b18c1 your going to have to use a jdm p72 ecu with 4 plug connector because the 4th one is used as a tcm. and wiring is going to be a bitch too, just to let you know that off hands...
09-12-2008, 11:04 AM
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Re: (vanste)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vanste »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the reason why your throwing a D4 light code is your using a wrong ecu, you got to have an auto ecu. plus the car is not going to run right if you dont have a automatic transmision ecu for it too. ive done 2 auto JDM B18C1 into EG hatch and EK hatch. your going to need to use brackets off auto integra ls and as far as the wiring goes, its going to be a bitch. what motor are you putting in. if its a auto b18c1 your going to have to use a jdm p72 ecu with 4 plug connector because the 4th one is used as a tcm. and wiring is going to be a bitch too, just to let you know that off hands...</TD></TR></TABLE>
He is right in all that he is saying...DO NOT DO AN AUTO GSR SWAP! DONT GO WITH AUTO PERIOD!!!!! Go with 5 speed. You will hate yourself later. Its a pain in the ***.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ku »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
will the gsr motor drop straight into an ek with innovative billet mounts?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If it is 5 speed it will but with an auto you have to cut a piece of the firewall off to get it to fit.
He is right in all that he is saying...DO NOT DO AN AUTO GSR SWAP! DONT GO WITH AUTO PERIOD!!!!! Go with 5 speed. You will hate yourself later. Its a pain in the ***.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ku »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
will the gsr motor drop straight into an ek with innovative billet mounts?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If it is 5 speed it will but with an auto you have to cut a piece of the firewall off to get it to fit.
10-19-2008, 10:01 AM
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Re: (Michael1989)
hey bro! do u have any idea how can i use the jdm ecu for the ls integra? im doing a gsr swap auto to my ls integra auto and i just need a ecu pinouts for the ls and i found obd2 pinouts for manual trans only. hope you can help me for my problem. thanks!
10-19-2008, 10:09 AM
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Re: This Honda GSR Swap Is Getting To Be A Pain In The ***! (94EG8)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94EG8 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As NOFX stated, there was no automatic Si, that bracket just doesn't exist, at least not in north america, it might in Japan. You can try the original civic bracket and see if that fits, i'm doubtful that it does, but i've seen reports that say it will. Or if that doesn't work you'll have to fab something up.</TD></TR></TABLE>
what about the b16 delsol? they made those is at trannys...
nd they made auomatic integras.
what about the b16 delsol? they made those is at trannys...
nd they made auomatic integras.
10-19-2008, 11:45 AM
#24
H-T White Ops
Re: This Honda GSR Swap Is Getting To Be A Pain In The ***! (longshot)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by longshot »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about the b16 delsol? they made those is at trannys...
nd they made auomatic integras. </TD></TR></TABLE>
There were not automatic del Sol VTECs in the US. Only the del Sol S and Si came with autos.
There were automatic transmissions on B-series Civics overseas, but the problem is not the transmission itself, it's fitting the transmission into the car.
Perhaps if someone joined with one of the rare EK4 automatics we would be able to get some images that could help us understand why they don't fit in our cars.
You can put an LS auto tranny in a 5th gen though. My friend has one mated to a B20 in her sedan.
nd they made auomatic integras. </TD></TR></TABLE>
There were not automatic del Sol VTECs in the US. Only the del Sol S and Si came with autos.
There were automatic transmissions on B-series Civics overseas, but the problem is not the transmission itself, it's fitting the transmission into the car.
Perhaps if someone joined with one of the rare EK4 automatics we would be able to get some images that could help us understand why they don't fit in our cars.
You can put an LS auto tranny in a 5th gen though. My friend has one mated to a B20 in her sedan.
10-19-2008, 12:45 PM
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Re: This Honda GSR Swap Is Getting To Be A Pain In The ***! (longshot)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by longshot »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about the b16 delsol? they made those is at trannys...
nd they made auomatic integras. </TD></TR></TABLE>
NOFX already mentioned the Del Sol, so I wont bother to mention that. I will mention the integra though, Integra brackets wont work in a 6th gen, automatic or manual. Compare a manual T/L bracket from integra with one from a '99 - '00 civic Si, the integra version is quite a bit longer.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NOFX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can put an LS auto tranny in a 5th gen though. My friend has one mated to a B20 in her sedan.</TD></TR></TABLE>
From what I understand the B18A automatic tranmission works ok in a 5th gen, but supposedly anything else requires notching the frame. Thats just what i've heard, i've never had any opportunity, nor the desire to attempt an automatic b-series in a 5th gen or anything else for that matter.
nd they made auomatic integras. </TD></TR></TABLE>
NOFX already mentioned the Del Sol, so I wont bother to mention that. I will mention the integra though, Integra brackets wont work in a 6th gen, automatic or manual. Compare a manual T/L bracket from integra with one from a '99 - '00 civic Si, the integra version is quite a bit longer.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NOFX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can put an LS auto tranny in a 5th gen though. My friend has one mated to a B20 in her sedan.</TD></TR></TABLE>
From what I understand the B18A automatic tranmission works ok in a 5th gen, but supposedly anything else requires notching the frame. Thats just what i've heard, i've never had any opportunity, nor the desire to attempt an automatic b-series in a 5th gen or anything else for that matter.