Honda Civic H22 Swap Questions!!!
10-30-2005, 03:49 PM
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Honda Civic H22 Swap Questions!!!
I have a 1997 Honda Civic DX (D16Y7). I was thinking about doing a Type R swap but the engine is too expensive. I found plenty of H22's for cheaper. Would there be any problems if I swapped the 2.2 in to a civic? Any tips or comments to help me out?
10-30-2005, 03:53 PM
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Re: Honda Civic H22 Swap Questions!!! (SLPRcivic)
h22 is cheaper but after u buy all the mounts and axles etc... its not that cheap, but lots of ppl have done, do a search, you should find some good info on it
10-30-2005, 04:32 PM
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that's all the comment you're going to get
how many times do you think we've talked about an engine that's been around for 13 years going in a car thats been around for 10 years.
good luck
that's all the comment you're going to get
how many times do you think we've talked about an engine that's been around for 13 years going in a car thats been around for 10 years.
good luck
10-30-2005, 05:02 PM
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Re: (EGmikeH22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGmikeH22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">search
that's all the comment you're going to get
how many times do you think we've talked about an engine that's been around for 13 years going in a car thats been around for 10 years.
good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
<FONT COLOR="blue">3.C. Posting in a thread "search noob" or anything of that nature now automatically warrants a % drop. This is a violation of the TOS, as it is post whoring, and frankly we're sick of it. If you can't provide a link to a thread, or any useful information, then don't bother posting at all.</TD></TR></TABLE></FONT>
Help the guy or don't say anything, please.
that's all the comment you're going to get
how many times do you think we've talked about an engine that's been around for 13 years going in a car thats been around for 10 years.
good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
<FONT COLOR="blue">3.C. Posting in a thread "search noob" or anything of that nature now automatically warrants a % drop. This is a violation of the TOS, as it is post whoring, and frankly we're sick of it. If you can't provide a link to a thread, or any useful information, then don't bother posting at all.</TD></TR></TABLE></FONT>
Help the guy or don't say anything, please.
10-30-2005, 05:06 PM
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Re: Honda Civic H22 Swap Questions!!! (SLPRcivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SLPRcivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I was thinking about doing a Type R swap but the engine is too expensive. I found plenty of H22's for cheaper. Would there be any problems if I swapped the 2.2 in to a civic? Any tips or comments to help me out?</TD></TR></TABLE>
For a given horsepower to the wheels, let's say 230 Dynojet HP, the H22 will be cheaper especially if you're doing the actual physical installation yourself.
If you want to go much farther than 230 HP or so, then the H22 All Motor build will be problematic.
There are B series parts all over the place, but it might take some searching to get the good, high quality, high HP H motor parts.
This is based on experience with my own B motor build and a friend's H1 Honda Challenge build for his Prelude.
Do you know what computer you're looking at?
For a given horsepower to the wheels, let's say 230 Dynojet HP, the H22 will be cheaper especially if you're doing the actual physical installation yourself.
If you want to go much farther than 230 HP or so, then the H22 All Motor build will be problematic.
There are B series parts all over the place, but it might take some searching to get the good, high quality, high HP H motor parts.
This is based on experience with my own B motor build and a friend's H1 Honda Challenge build for his Prelude.
Do you know what computer you're looking at?
10-31-2005, 05:15 AM
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I was searching around and I found some H22's out of the 92 - 95 Preludes with 10 - 35k for around 2500.00. That was the complete swap: Engine, Tranny, ECU, Uncut Harness, Distributor, Alternator, Starter, A/C Compressor, Power Steering Pump, Intake Manifold, Exhaust Manifold, Clutch, Fly Wheel, Pressure Plate, Sensors, Motor Mounts (stock), Axles, Linkage. The price for all of that isn't bad at all compared to a Type R. Now I'm just wondering how much would it be to have it put in. Or if there would be any problems because the majority of Civics have B18's, why not H22's?
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10-31-2005, 05:53 AM
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Re: (SLPRcivic)
I spent about an extra $1400 for the parts I needed to install my H, after buying the 'complete swap'. Most of that money was spent on shifter/cables, exhaust, clutch, flywheel, and axles. The shifter and the axles are needed for the H, when they would most likely come with the swap for the B. Also, get the LSD tranny when you buy the motor, if you get the H, you won't regret it.
10-31-2005, 06:10 AM
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Re: (SLPRcivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SLPRcivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... because the majority of Civics have B18's, why not H22's?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Much of it is perception, that the H motors are not supported by the aftermarket industry (partly true) or that they are huge and unwieldly compared to the B motors (not true).
As I said above, it's really pretty damned easy to get 230 Dynojet HP out of an H22 with just the very mildest all motor build.
You will have to decide if the very slight weight gain (25# ?) is worth it, and you'll have to decide if the (maybe) $3000 in savings over a Type R installation is worth dealing with having to shop around a little more for parts.
Corey Jacobs (the moderator Honda318dx) can reach 150 miles per hour in his H motor Prelude between Turn 10 and Turn 1 at Summit Point. That's pretty unusual for a Honda Challenge car, and is a testament to both the torque and horsepower that the H22 can put down. His motor is <u>not</u> built anywhere nearly as much as the B and K motors with which he competes.
Much of it is perception, that the H motors are not supported by the aftermarket industry (partly true) or that they are huge and unwieldly compared to the B motors (not true).
As I said above, it's really pretty damned easy to get 230 Dynojet HP out of an H22 with just the very mildest all motor build.
You will have to decide if the very slight weight gain (25# ?) is worth it, and you'll have to decide if the (maybe) $3000 in savings over a Type R installation is worth dealing with having to shop around a little more for parts.
Corey Jacobs (the moderator Honda318dx) can reach 150 miles per hour in his H motor Prelude between Turn 10 and Turn 1 at Summit Point. That's pretty unusual for a Honda Challenge car, and is a testament to both the torque and horsepower that the H22 can put down. His motor is <u>not</u> built anywhere nearly as much as the B and K motors with which he competes.
10-31-2005, 06:19 AM
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Re: (George Knighton)
Also, another thing you need to take into consideration is whether or not you are going to be replacing internals. The h22's sleeves, from what I have heard, will not cooperate with aftermarket pistons. Make sure you make a plan before you even begin your project. Also, If you are wanting a b-series swap but don't want to shell out the $$$$ for a type r, there is just as much power to be made from a gsr swap. Just my $.02. Hope this helps.
-Red
-Red
10-31-2005, 07:00 AM
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Much of it is perception, that the H motors are not supported by the aftermarket industry (partly true) or that they are huge and unwieldly compared to the B motors (not true).
As I said above, it's really pretty damned easy to get 230 Dynojet HP out of an H22 with just the very mildest all motor build.
You will have to decide if the very slight weight gain (25# ?) is worth it, and you'll have to decide if the (maybe) $3000 in savings over a Type R installation is worth dealing with having to shop around a little more for parts.
Corey Jacobs (the moderator Honda318dx) can reach 150 miles per hour in his H motor Prelude between Turn 10 and Turn 1 at Summit Point. That's pretty unusual for a Honda Challenge car, and is a testament to both the torque and horsepower that the H22 can put down. His motor is <u>not</u> built anywhere nearly as much as the B and K motors with which he competes.</TD></TR></TABLE>
All very true and impressive about the last sentence. H22 the only drawbacks imo is it's harder to goback to B or D if you want too also installation is not plug and play like a B also aftermarket isn't as big for it like a B series.
Much of it is perception, that the H motors are not supported by the aftermarket industry (partly true) or that they are huge and unwieldly compared to the B motors (not true).
As I said above, it's really pretty damned easy to get 230 Dynojet HP out of an H22 with just the very mildest all motor build.
You will have to decide if the very slight weight gain (25# ?) is worth it, and you'll have to decide if the (maybe) $3000 in savings over a Type R installation is worth dealing with having to shop around a little more for parts.
Corey Jacobs (the moderator Honda318dx) can reach 150 miles per hour in his H motor Prelude between Turn 10 and Turn 1 at Summit Point. That's pretty unusual for a Honda Challenge car, and is a testament to both the torque and horsepower that the H22 can put down. His motor is <u>not</u> built anywhere nearly as much as the B and K motors with which he competes.</TD></TR></TABLE>
All very true and impressive about the last sentence. H22 the only drawbacks imo is it's harder to goback to B or D if you want too also installation is not plug and play like a B also aftermarket isn't as big for it like a B series.
10-31-2005, 07:07 AM
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Re: (nitrared)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nitrared »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, If you are wanting a b-series swap but don't want to shell out the $$$$ for a type r, there is just as much power to be made from a gsr swap. Just my $.02.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just curious: By the time you raise compression, do the head work and buy cams, have you still spent less money?
I don't know...just curious.
Just curious: By the time you raise compression, do the head work and buy cams, have you still spent less money?
I don't know...just curious.
10-31-2005, 08:33 AM
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nitrared »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, If you are wanting a b-series swap but don't want to shell out the $$$$ for a type r, there is just as much power to be made from a gsr swap. Just my $.02. Hope this helps.
-Red</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just curious: By the time you raise compression, do the head work and buy cams, have you still spent less money?
I don't know...just curious.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I, honestly, do not know the answer to this question. My previous statement was made w/o knowing what SLPRcivic's actual plan is. I would say that if he is aiming for a F/I setup, then, yes, the gsr is a more cost efficient swap than that of a type r. If he is going for all motor, then I am more reluctant to think that the gsr is more cost effecient. It is not completely out of the question, but I do have my doubts. I also believe, as George Knighton mentioned earlier, that the cost of the swap is based largely on SLPRcivic's actual knowledge of how to perform this swap. In all cases [H22, B18C1, and B18C5] there have been massive ammounts of hp and trq made. Just do the research and figure out what you are going to want the swap to do for you before you make any purchases. Good luck.
-Red
-Red</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just curious: By the time you raise compression, do the head work and buy cams, have you still spent less money?
I don't know...just curious.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I, honestly, do not know the answer to this question. My previous statement was made w/o knowing what SLPRcivic's actual plan is. I would say that if he is aiming for a F/I setup, then, yes, the gsr is a more cost efficient swap than that of a type r. If he is going for all motor, then I am more reluctant to think that the gsr is more cost effecient. It is not completely out of the question, but I do have my doubts. I also believe, as George Knighton mentioned earlier, that the cost of the swap is based largely on SLPRcivic's actual knowledge of how to perform this swap. In all cases [H22, B18C1, and B18C5] there have been massive ammounts of hp and trq made. Just do the research and figure out what you are going to want the swap to do for you before you make any purchases. Good luck.
-Red
10-31-2005, 05:56 PM
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My plan is to drop a H22. I won't be getting into turbos or anything like that. The only aftermarket parts I was going to add to it were: clutch, flywheel, exhaust, intake, header.. basically the bolt-ons. That's all I was going to do for the 2006 year. As for the forced induction, I have no plans yet. So I guess, which would be cheaper and faster, H22a or B16c5, both with just the basic bolt-ons?
10-31-2005, 07:10 PM
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Re: (SLPRcivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SLPRcivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My plan is to drop a H22. I won't be getting into turbos or anything like that. The only aftermarket parts I was going to add to it were: clutch, flywheel, exhaust, intake, header.. basically the bolt-ons. That's all I was going to do for the 2006 year. As for the forced induction, I have no plans yet. So I guess, which would be cheaper and faster, H22a or B16c5, both with just the basic bolt-ons?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am going to answer this to the best of my ability. If I am wrong at some point, please correct me. At the current time, the H22 seems to be exactly what you are wanting. It will respond very well with the mild bolt-ons you mentioned and will be more cost-efficient. But, when addressing forced induction you used the word "yet." More times than not, when a person is considering a motor swap, they are doing it to make a major improvement over their current hp/tq setup. Once the swap is done, people have a tendency to want more power than the swap gave them. This is where boost comes into effect.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For a given horsepower to the wheels, let's say 230 Dynojet HP, the H22 will be cheaper especially if you're doing the actual physical installation yourself.If you want to go much farther than 230 HP or so, then the H22 All Motor build will be problematic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If, at some point in time, you are looking to make 250-300hp, for example, then I would suggest going with a B-series swap. And, like I mentioned earlier, the GSR swap will render comparable results to the Type R in a forced induction setup. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Type R has a higher compression ratio than the GSR, thus making it risky to run more than 6-7 psi of boost. The reason I keep going back to the GSR is because I am under the impression that you are on a budget considering your concern about price between the H22 and the Type R. But, I have noticed that, more times than not, the Type R motor swap is more for "bling" than for power.
Basically what I am saying is, if you think that you may eventually want more than 230-250hp, then I would get the GSR and boost it. If you are like me, 230-250hp will be enough to keep you satisified, rendering the H22 as the swap that is most cost-efficient and logical. Neither situation is wrong nor stupid. It all boils down to personal preference. I'm sleepy, so if I have said anything that may confuse someone, please address the issue. Hope this helps you with your decision.
-Red
I am going to answer this to the best of my ability. If I am wrong at some point, please correct me. At the current time, the H22 seems to be exactly what you are wanting. It will respond very well with the mild bolt-ons you mentioned and will be more cost-efficient. But, when addressing forced induction you used the word "yet." More times than not, when a person is considering a motor swap, they are doing it to make a major improvement over their current hp/tq setup. Once the swap is done, people have a tendency to want more power than the swap gave them. This is where boost comes into effect.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For a given horsepower to the wheels, let's say 230 Dynojet HP, the H22 will be cheaper especially if you're doing the actual physical installation yourself.If you want to go much farther than 230 HP or so, then the H22 All Motor build will be problematic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If, at some point in time, you are looking to make 250-300hp, for example, then I would suggest going with a B-series swap. And, like I mentioned earlier, the GSR swap will render comparable results to the Type R in a forced induction setup. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Type R has a higher compression ratio than the GSR, thus making it risky to run more than 6-7 psi of boost. The reason I keep going back to the GSR is because I am under the impression that you are on a budget considering your concern about price between the H22 and the Type R. But, I have noticed that, more times than not, the Type R motor swap is more for "bling" than for power.
Basically what I am saying is, if you think that you may eventually want more than 230-250hp, then I would get the GSR and boost it. If you are like me, 230-250hp will be enough to keep you satisified, rendering the H22 as the swap that is most cost-efficient and logical. Neither situation is wrong nor stupid. It all boils down to personal preference. I'm sleepy, so if I have said anything that may confuse someone, please address the issue. Hope this helps you with your decision.
-Red
10-31-2005, 09:31 PM
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Thanks. I'm pretty sure I would be satisfied with the 230 ponies. I most likely will be going to the 22. Just out of curiosity, any idea how quick a H22 would run on the quarter with basic bolt-ons?
10-31-2005, 09:55 PM
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my h22 with basic bolt-ons ran low 13s, with good bolt-ons, weight reduction, and .015 shaved from the deck raising compression to 11.2:1 from 10.6:1 I ran high 12s (drag radials, stock header, no LSD, stock shocks, VAFC on P13, shitty track).
Check my sig to see the buildup and times I was running with different mods.
Best thing I can tell you about tuning the H is to take away as much rotating mass as you can, do this before you even put a friggin' intake on the thing. I am serious and I am right.
Check my sig to see the buildup and times I was running with different mods.
Best thing I can tell you about tuning the H is to take away as much rotating mass as you can, do this before you even put a friggin' intake on the thing. I am serious and I am right.
10-31-2005, 09:57 PM
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Re: Honda Civic H22 Swap Questions!!! (SLPRcivic)
stick to the Type R and go boost...H22 is an awesome motor, but good luck with axle and suspension problems...ull have to fully upgrade ur suspension, cuz if u dont know yet but "h22's love to break axles" all that torque can really do some damage. Im saying from research and from other people. Correct me if im wrong in any point of my message. But again do ur reasearch many people have been successfull at it with the rights mods jus like that doode mikeh22 up there. Good luck! 
11-01-2005, 06:31 AM
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Re: Honda Civic H22 Swap Questions!!! (V8-eater)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by V8-eater »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H22 is an awesome motor, but good luck with axle and suspension problems...ull have to fully upgrade ur suspension, cuz if u dont know yet but "h22's love to break axles" all that torque can really do some damage. </TD></TR></TABLE>
that's only true if you use the wrong parts. I don't have anything close to 'fully upgraded' suspension, and I don't have problems. I did get DSS level one axles ($400 for the pair), and stiffer spring rates for the front to accomodate the extra weight. That's all I needed to be problem free with my swap for a year and a half now.
that's only true if you use the wrong parts. I don't have anything close to 'fully upgraded' suspension, and I don't have problems. I did get DSS level one axles ($400 for the pair), and stiffer spring rates for the front to accomodate the extra weight. That's all I needed to be problem free with my swap for a year and a half now.
11-01-2005, 07:15 AM
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Re: (EGmikeH22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGmikeH22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Best thing I can tell you about tuning the H is to take away as much rotating mass as you can....</TD></TR></TABLE>
So I guess that's a big NO to the issue of balance shafts, eh?
So I guess that's a big NO to the issue of balance shafts, eh?
11-01-2005, 08:39 AM
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when I took my balance shaft belt off, it was more noticable than when I got an aluminum underdrive pulley, and enough people buy those to justify that they should work reasonably well.
11-01-2005, 09:47 AM
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Re: (Ricey McRicerton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ricey McRicerton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only thing that steers me away from the H is the transmission. I don't like how it feels, and it's long.</TD></TR></TABLE>
another thing that steers me away is the fact that with an H22 you are pretty much committing that car to the H series for life, unless you want to reweld in the shifter area,etc. I like the idea of if I want to go back to a d series (say i blow my b18) I can without much modding.
The H22 seems to be a more involved swap. Is it better then say a b18c5? Don't know , that for each person to decide.
another thing that steers me away is the fact that with an H22 you are pretty much committing that car to the H series for life, unless you want to reweld in the shifter area,etc. I like the idea of if I want to go back to a d series (say i blow my b18) I can without much modding.
The H22 seems to be a more involved swap. Is it better then say a b18c5? Don't know , that for each person to decide.
11-01-2005, 11:12 AM
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Re: (jameskersten1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jameskersten1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">another thing that steers me away is the fact that with an H22 you are pretty much committing that car to the H series for life, unless you want to reweld in the shifter area,etc. I like the idea of if I want to go back to a d series (say i blow my b18) I can without much modding.
The H22 seems to be a more involved swap. Is it better then say a b18c5? Don't know , that for each person to decide. </TD></TR></TABLE>
no
H2B
no cutting no welding, put your D series back in in 2 hours.
and the H22 tranny is no longer than the ITR tranny if they are on the same tires, the ITR 5th gear is actually taller.
I dont want to turn this into the 2342523rd post about H vs B, but yea....
The H22 seems to be a more involved swap. Is it better then say a b18c5? Don't know , that for each person to decide.
</TD></TR></TABLE>no
H2B
no cutting no welding, put your D series back in in 2 hours.
and the H22 tranny is no longer than the ITR tranny if they are on the same tires, the ITR 5th gear is actually taller.
I dont want to turn this into the 2342523rd post about H vs B, but yea....