Graham Cracker

First I'd just like to apologize for how long this is - please read through it! The pictures are at the bottom. I simply don't know what to do at this point!

Several months back I purchased a 94 Honda del Sol Vtec from some guy here in Texas as a project car. Her had let the car sit for 2 years and then decided one day to go drive it hard and basically blew it up. (didn't change the oil)

Knowing that the engine would need to be replaced I drove to Austin, TX and towed it all the way back to Arlington, TX. I dropped it off at REDLINE PERFORMANCE so that they could fix it for me. At this point I wasn't really aware of any other problems with the car as I had only just picked it up and dropped it off - seeing how the engine was blown (rod broke in half) driving it was also out of the question. We agreed that the best way to fix it would be to just put a used B16A engine in there. Simple and cost effective.

So Redline arranged to get a used engine as they said that they could source it without a problem. Sure enough they put it in and got it running without charging us an arm and a leg.

I picked it up with my wife excited to drive it (I had never driven a B16 sol - we had a Turbo D16Z6 sol at the time). Unfortunately there were other problems to be found that driving made obvious. The alignment was WAY off and the suspension was really screwy so we just went ahead and slowly drove it home (about 20 miles)
While driving the Oil Idiot light would flicker every now and then - not knowing much about this engine I just figured it was a loose wire that I could take care of later.

We got he car home and unfortunately right about that time work became very difficult and I was spending about 60 hours a week there (Asst. Manager at Wal-Mart) - consequently I didn't have any time to work on the project car. So for the next several months I let it sit in the driveway and started it regularly to ensure good engine health.

Well things at work cleared up (I quit and started my own business) and finally I had time to mess with the car. I drove it to a suspension shop and had them do some extensive work on it to get the alignment corrected.

SO - once again my wife and I were quite excited to drive the car - but there were more problems. The engine idle was a little wierd and the Oil light continued to flicker (I had had time to check all the connections). Aside from that - Vtec didn't seem to be kicking in (oil pressure activated) So IMMEDIATELY after picking it up from the alignment shop I drove it back to REDLINE to have them take a look at it.

Keep in mind - it had been several months since I had them install the engine, but we hadn't driven it aside from:
From REDLINE TO Home
HOME TO ALIGNMENT SHOP
ALIGNMENT SHOP TO REDLINE
(About 40-50 miles total)

When I got there they decided it must be leaky seals - so I told them to go ahead and replace them. It has been so long that they did not remember me and I had to pay for it. Not a big deal - but still frustrating. They replaced all the seals in the HEAD and I picked it up the next day.

Driving home the Oil Pressure light comes on again - this time before I get home it doesn't just flicker - it stays on solid. Freaked out I pull to the side of the road and look around for leaks. (this was before I knew that the Oil PSI should be at about 70 Max and that the Idiot Oil Light only takes about 4 PSI to keep it from turning on.)

Finding nothing I turn the car back on and the light goes off ... OK so I drive it the rest of the way home. By the time I'm pulling up to the driveway the light is again on Solid.

After using the SEARCH tool here I figure there must be something blocking the Oil Passageways. SO I remove the Oil pan and there it is ... Oil sludge so thick that it was clogging up the Oil Pickup. Sure there was fresh oil in there - but there was a LOT of sludge gummed up on the bottom of the pan and clogging up the pickup. As I drove longer more crap would get caught in the pickup and clog it more (making the idiot light turn on solid)

I suppose I should have taken pictures then but I was just excited thinking I had figured out the problem. So I spent HOURS cleaning out the pickup and the pan. I even ran Motor FLush through the engine TWICE (yes changing the oil between each time) in order to try and dissolve the sludge.
Filled it back up with oil and started it up - NO OIL PRESSURE LIGHT! I drove it around the block - VTEC!

So I thought I had solved the problem. WRONG.

After about a week Vtec stopped working again. I ran Motor Flush through the engine 2 MORE TIMES and dropped the pan - Gunk was clogging the Oil Pickup Screen again and there was a LOT of clumpy deposits in the bottom of the pan. So I figured there MUST be a lot more Oil Sludge somewhere else in the engine - and BOY WAS I RIGHT!

I pulled the Valve Cover (REMEMBER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT REDLINE HAD TO DO IN ORDER TO CHANGE THE SEALS) and this is what I found.
I've tried to post a picture with a link to a higher res duplicate under it.



http://delsoltuning.com/images...G.jpg



Click on the higher res pic to see where they obviously scraped at this crap and then sealed it back up! I did NOT make those scrapes!
http://delsoltuning.com/images...2.jpg



http://delsoltuning.com/images...G.jpg



CLICK On this higher res pic to see the pure unadulterated SLUDGE in the head!
http://delsoltuning.com/images...3.jpg



http://delsoltuning.com/images...G.jpg



http://delsoltuning.com/images...2.jpg



http://delsoltuning.com/images...G.jpg



http://delsoltuning.com/images...2.jpg



http://delsoltuning.com/images...3.jpg



http://delsoltuning.com/images...4.jpg



http://delsoltuning.com/images...G.jpg



http://delsoltuning.com/images...2.jpg



It's Bigger than my dog's head!

http://delsoltuning.com/images...G.jpg



LOOK EVEN MY DOG IS PISSED AT IT!
http://delsoltuning.com/images...2.jpg

THE NEXT FEW PICTURES SHOW WHERE SOMEONE PURPOSEFULLY SCRAPED AT THIS - KNOWING IT WAS THERE! I DID NOT SCRAPE HERE! Probably RedLine when they put in new seals. They just closed it back up when they realized this engine was screwed.










There was MORE sludge under the valve cover than there was in the OIL PAN! I mean this stuff was STUCK TO THE UNDERSIDE OF THE VALVE COVER! How the HECK does it get stuck to the understide of the valve cover??? Did they store this thing full of oil upside down?

At this point I have no idea what to do. I dont think there's any saving this engine aside from a full hot tank and rebuild. There's sludge I cannot even get to! I spent 4 HOURS trying to just clean off the underside of the Valve cover! 2 Cans of degreaser and a full bottle of GOJO and I got NOWHERE. This isn't even OIL anymore! I actually tore down the old blown engine that had been sitting for 2 years in order to learn more and there wasn't even this much gunk in THERE! NOT EVEN CLOSE!

NOTE the small scrapes in the Sludge - I didn't do that. The mechanic at REDLINE must have seen this while replacing the seals and screwed with it for a second before just sealing it right back up!

I know I have close to zero posts on here but that's because I search to get what I need. I've put a lot of effort into this post because I need help!

What do I do with this engine?
Can I even hold RedLine accountable?
HAS ANYONE EVER DEALT WITH THIS BEFORE????

- Graham Slaughter




Modified by Graham Cracker at 6:32 PM 3/5/2005

pb16b

wow. that sucks man! i don't think redline can really be held accounted for because you did buy a used engine. but they should've told you what they found when they tore it down to change out the seals. it's shady. if i found that on my customer's car, i'd at least inform them about the sludge and see what they wanted to do about it. did you tell them about the sludge? you should show them what you found and try and work something out with them.

Stoich EG2

WOW.... you need to take that back to redline and have them do something about it... sludge like that doesn't form in just 6 months... WOW...

Graham Cracker

At this point I'm really wary of having them do ANYTHING else to the car. It honestly wont even hurt my feelings if they said I was out of luck because I honestly had possession of the engine in the car for months before I even took it back to them.

Still though - customer says "Hey my idiot light keeps coming on."

Answer: "looks like you have bad seals"

Fix the seals - SEE THIS - close the head back up and say "We fixed the seals!"

What kind of business does that?
What must be done to this engine to ensure it will run correctly in the future? The plan was to boost this ... but all the sludge in the engine ... that's like taking a heart attack victim and making them run a manathon right after the incident ...


Modified by Graham Cracker at 6:52 PM 3/5/2005

.BigSexy

I don't think there is anything you can do with the engine other than rebuild, or just buy another longblock, I would try and hold Redline responsible, but don't count on it.......my dad is in Roanoke, TX....I would advise taking it to him, pm me for his number, he is the best mechanic I know and alot of people can vouch for him....but good luck with that, and that is a lot of gunk!!!

biotech0123

Redline does it again, I knew from the start that those guys sucked ***. I would definitely try to hold them accountable for the motor. The only draw back to this is that you've had the motor in the car so long and now this problem.. I would read the invoice from when they sold you the motor and find out what all they will cover. This makes me mad because I hear people say that they have problems from when redline fucked with their motor. And from my personal experience their customer service blows . Don't trust Alamo either unless you want them to tune your car eighty's style with a probe in the muffler like alignment shops do.....

Equilibrium

HOLY ****; I've never seen that before! Redline is responsible for the repairs, because they sold you the engine and if they replaced all the seals and would have surely have seen this. Talk to them, see if they can make a "Great deal" with you, if you're not satisfied there, go to the better business bureau. If they can't help you, file a small claims case against them.

Good Luck!

rukawa1one

man! how did it still run with that gunk?

.BigSexy

I doubt Redline would do anything about it.....you should try and get them to replace the longblock, but, like I said....I doubt they will do the "right" thing here...but ten again, if they were a "good" company, they would have told you about this when they replaced all the seals

Graham Cracker

Yeah when I told them that the Oil Pressure light was coming on and that I had them put in the engine (which THEY sourced by the way) they conveniently had no idea who I was.

I looked at the receipt and there is no indication of the milage from when I received it from them. For all they know I've driven it 2 million miles since I picked it up instead of the approximate 100.

I suppose it's my own fault for not fixing the car right away after getting the engine installed (as this problem was very evident as soon as the car was able to drive straight) but things come up. But GEEZ not letting me know about this when they replaced the seals ... that's shady crap! You know they saw that and said "screw this - we're not going to tell him because he'll try to hold us accountable. SEAL THAT BABY BACK UP!" ...I hate this.


"My oil pressure light comes on in this engine you sourced and installed" ... "must be your seals" ... yeah if 60+ PSI worth of oil is screaming out from under a seal .. yeah that might be it. I wish I had done m research then!

Graham Cracker

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rukawa1one &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man! how did it still run with that gunk?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like the dude in your avatar bro...

eK9aT10pSi

i cant even imagine when you originally drove the car from the shop. how was the ride !?!?

.BigSexy

pm'd you

Graham Cracker

Modified by Graham Cracker at 7:56 PM 3/5/2005

Graham Cracker

So somebody suggested 3 qt Oil and 1 qt ATF fluid - any other ideas?

Anyone else that has had an engine put in that had a problem like this?


Modified by Graham Cracker at 7:55 PM 3/5/2005

HATCHingMN

Yep, that motor is JUNK!!
bring it back to redline, and work something out.

Personally, I would damand for refund or a new motor.

Graham Cracker

oops


Modified by Graham Cracker at 7:53 PM 3/5/2005

Graham Cracker

drewboy

goodness graham cracker, so many replies of the same message

I would definately contact redline, tell them your situation, email them pics ect. Tell them you had them replace the seals and they didnt inform you of the sludge ect. If they were a true business they'd compensate you, if not take them to small claims court. One thing thats going to hurt you though is no proof of mileage.

Another guy posted earlier that theres nothing you can do because you bought a used engine, thats nonsence. There is a general understanding clause that holds redline accountable to install a working, healthy motor , regardless if its used or not.

Call redline, let them know the situation, let them know your an H-T- member, they will realize you can make or break their reputation over H.T. and get your junk taken care of.

Graham Cracker

Yeah sorry about the duplicate posts - I was refreshing the page and it kept posting again!. (stupid but learning)

I'll try to get ahold of them Monday to see what they'll do. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for the help guys!

drewboy

alright Graham,

and remember one thing, DO IT BIG IN TEXAS!

uniseriate

Use Auto-RX to clear that **** up. ATF will work, but it will dislodge huge gobs of that sludge which can block up an oil passage. Auto-RX will work gradually to loosen up the sludge and deposits. The site is http://www.auto-rx.com. You will probably have to do two applications of auto-rx to get rid of everything.

It sounds like another gimmick, but read this testimonial and look at the pictures:

http://www.rms13.com/about.htm

It is also highly recommended on the bobistheoilguy forums.

MugenHonda

try 1 can of seafoam with new oil and do it 3 times
pour it directly into the engine to mix with the motor oil, for 1 can, 1 can let it idle through the intake manifold, and 1 can directly into the gas tank and then see whats up.
what pure bad luck

Good ol' Screwtape

thats just nasty.

Do_Ster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by panasoanic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use Auto-RX to clear that **** up. ATF will work, but it will dislodge huge gobs of that sludge which can block up an oil passage. Auto-RX will work gradually to loosen up the sludge and deposits. The site is http://www.auto-rx.com. You will probably have to do two applications of auto-rx to get rid of everything.

It sounds like another gimmick, but read this testimonial and look at the pictures:

http://www.rms13.com/about.htm

It is also highly recommended on the bobistheoilguy forums. </TD></TR></TABLE>

worth a shot IMO. good luck in getting things straighten out.