ubercerealkiller

I'm in the process of building my first motor. I'm starting out small because yah i dont wanna spend too much money on something that ill probably end up screwing up anyway. So yah im on a really low budget here.

I'm wanting to know basically what i'll need to build me up a high compression D-series motor, i already have the block, and a crank, but im not using much off of whats left in it.

I'm also wanting to go all motor because yah, im on a low budget. I'd like to get like 12-13+:1 compression ratio, but im not really sure what i need to do to go about accomplishing that, i know i need high comp. pistons, new rings, and ill probably need to re-sleeve it and stuff, but yah.....


any help would be great, i'm also planning to put a z6 head on it. the block is a d15b2 from a 91 civic if that helps.

BauleyCivic

I'd get VX rods and P29 pistons...12.5 ish compression ratio

Spade

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BauleyCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd get VX rods and P29 pistons...12.5 ish compression ratio</TD></TR></TABLE>

Um....LS rods? Not quite sure (might be too early in the mornin') why you are suggesting VX rods. Those are fricken tooth picks.

BauleyCivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spade &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Um....LS rods? Not quite sure (might be too early in the mornin') why you are suggesting VX rods. Those are fricken tooth picks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I heard they were the same as the JDM D15B rods, and were comprable in thickness to the Z6 rods? You need the VX rods to put the D16 pistons into the 1.5L powerplant

Spade

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BauleyCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I heard they were the same as the JDM D15B rods, and were comprable in thickness to the Z6 rods? You need the VX rods to put the D16 pistons into the 1.5L powerplant</TD></TR></TABLE>

It helps if I read the block part.


My suggestion....toss the D15 block and get a D16.

lohatch

you need to tell us what block you have. you can mount any 75mm piston onto either 1.5L or 1.6L rods. they all use 21mm wristpins. here is a link to a compression calculator. http://www.knology.net/~jediklc/D.htm
also what gas are you planning to run this motor on, what fuel management, what will be it's main purpose and how long do you intend it to run for???? answering these questions will help us answer your questions. also i would not worry about the VX rods, you can get your compression plenty high running any other rod(i.e. your stock rods) and a piston of choice. you are not going to have to sleeve your motor, since you are on a limited budget. you can get oversized pistons and have a machine shop bored your block over(i am assuming it is a higher mileage block). get back to us on the highlighted questions above and i will have more answers for you.

civic-4-ges

Stock rods on 11.5:1 c/r here
Builthatch is running stock rods-shotpeened on higher c/r (12.5:1 I believe)

P29 pistons from Nippon Racing!

Redline96LX

the worst are y7 rods, they are so thin/

oh yeah, what octane of gas are you gonna be runnin? 13:1 is ****** high, on 87 octane id worry about dieseling. your gonna need at least premium 93 octane if not higher

BauleyCivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lohatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you need to tell us what block you have. you can mount any 75mm piston onto either 1.5L or 1.6L rods. they all use 21mm wristpins. here is a link to a compression calculator. http://www.knology.net/~jediklc/D.htm
also what gas are you planning to run this motor on, what fuel management, what will be it's main purpose and how long do you intend it to run for???? answering these questions will help us answer your questions. also i would not worry about the VX rods, you can get your compression plenty high running any other rod(i.e. your stock rods) and a piston of choice. you are not going to have to sleeve your motor, since you are on a limited budget. you can get oversized pistons and have a machine shop bored your block over(i am assuming it is a higher mileage block). get back to us on the highlighted questions above and i will have more answers for you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

He has a D15B2. Using any D16 piston it will sit 3mm in the block because the wrist pin location on USDM D15Bx pistons is 3mm lower than the D16Z6, D15Z1, and JDM D15B. If he is going to use 1.6L pistons, he will need the VX rods because they allow you to run 1.6L pistons in a USDM D15Bx.

As spade said, I think trying to build that block is a waste and he should just get a D16Z6 or D16A6 and start from there.

lohatch

ah now im with yah bauley i didnt know what block he was using. i would definetly search for a 1.6L, this gives you more options for bottom end parts, and other parts as well.

gftgrill

get a d16 block with a y8 head milled. then put gx pistons/rods in there. gx pistons are the highest compression that I know of from honda.

klungemonger

According to an AEM engine chart I got, the VX rod is the same length as any D16 rod, likely the only difference is the crank journal size. Can anyone verify that the wristpin is located higher or the piston top surface is lower in a D16 compared to a D15? The D15 block deck is shorter, then you put 3mm longer rods in it...who knows for certain that simply putting A1 pistons on longer rods in a B7 block isn't going to wreck the motor?

I'd definitely opt for the D16 block unless you can verify that info. The longer rod and shorter stroke make the r/s ratio better for high-compression tuning.

BauleyCivic

The USDM D15Bx pistons have a 3mm lower wrist pin location...meaning if you used D16 pistons on a USDM D15B, they would sit in the hole 3mm. Thats why you get the VX rods, which are 3mm longer. They compensate for that 3mm difference in wrist pin location, allowing D16/JDM D15B pistons to fit into a USDM D15Bx block without a problem.

klungemonger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BauleyCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The USDM D15Bx pistons have a 3mm lower wrist pin location...meaning if you used D16 pistons on a USDM D15B, they would sit in the hole 3mm. Thats why you get the VX rods, which are 3mm longer. They compensate for that 3mm difference in wrist pin location, allowing D16/JDM D15B pistons to fit into a USDM D15Bx block without a problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good to know, been debating about that for the longest time!
So the D15B deck should only be about 2.75mm shorter than the D16 deck...(half the difference in stroke)...

Ricey McRicerton

I wouldn't suggest LS rods at all. By the time you get them to work, you could have gotten some aftermarket, stronger rods and saved yourself the hassle.

lohatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ricey McRicerton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't suggest LS rods at all. By the time you get them to work, you could have gotten some aftermarket, stronger rods and saved yourself the hassle. </TD></TR></TABLE>yep

civiccpedx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gftgrill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get a d16 block with a y8 head milled. then put gx pistons/rods in there. gx pistons are the highest compression that I know of from honda.</TD></TR></TABLE>

stick with a d16z6 block and head, the z6 head is the best flowing head for the d series.

ubercerealkiller

the block is FREE, i guess i forgot to point that out, secondly, im doing it so i can learn what im doing, ive never built a motor. its getting a z6 head which im hoping to have some work done on it. I'll probably be running mid grade gas ( 90 octane around here ) i might pump 93 in it every once in a while or on rare occasion ill pump in some 100 octane ( yah they sell that a gas station here in town ) but mostly mid grade... im looking to get like 150-160 horses out of this setup so really im not looking to spend an incredible amount.. and im planning on running it for about a year or a year and a half. I'm also keeping the stock motor from the car im about to buy so if yah i screw this one up, ill have a good reliable back up.

but yah the block im getting is free... which is why im getting it. if nothing else, ill probably just end up buying a JDM D15B or some **** ( the VTEC model )

but i think itd be fun to build my own motor up, and id like to learn how to do it, cause i really wanna build a gsr motor up in a year or two when i have more money. ( if it helps yall, im on a taco bell budget, so yah im poor )

lohatch

heres the deal, these are going to be your rough limits with the gas you are running, note that you are going to need some tuning:

91 octane 11.5:1 compression or less

93 octane 12.5:1 compression or less

sure you can run higher, sure people have done it, sure they are backing timing off. my advice, stay at or under 11.5:1 and run 93 octane. i think you will be able to get by like this and i think you will be able to run stock timing, otherwise i think you are going to melt it. that is my opinion.

civic-4-ges

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ubercerealkiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the block is FREE</TD></TR></TABLE>

While that is nice, d16 blocks can be had in great shape for very, verycheap, just need to look around and be resourceful.

klungemonger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lohatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> sure you can run higher, sure people have done it, sure they are backing timing off. my advice, stay at or under 11.5:1 and run 93 octane. i think you will be able to get by like this and i think you will be able to run stock timing, otherwise i think you are going to melt it. that is my opinion.</TD></TR></TABLE>

True, people don't consider that if they run very high compression but have to retard the timing to avoid detonation, they are reducing the horsepower which negates the whole reason for going with the ultra-high compression. Better to run just slightly lower compression, be more reliable, and if you run on the edge with timing you'll be making nice power. Best bet though is to get a nice management system so you can have the ignition curve tuned, then you can run good on the 12+ c/r setup. Why not just run the 93 octane all the time and worry less about detonation? On a Civic it will only cost you another $1-$2 per fillup

2point2

I apolligize for the level 10 thread jack but,

What is the ultimate all-motor tranny for a d-series? (hyd) I'm just curious.

klungemonger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I apolligize for the level 10 thread jack but,

What is the ultimate all-motor tranny for a d-series? (hyd) I'm just curious. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe start a new thread then? NO stock tranny is probably the ultimate, do one up with custom gears, atb differential, and custom final drive ratio. Each engine depending on how it's built (where powerband is) may work better with a slightly different tranny setup.

ubercerealkiller

yah its really not hard to start your own thread :-P

gftgrill

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civiccpedx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

stick with a d16z6 block and head, the z6 head is the best flowing head for the d series.</TD></TR></TABLE>

in stock form. fully ported I've heard the y8 can make more power due to the offset valve sizes. but that goes back to the whoe z6/y8 debate.

anyway I suggested the y8 head because it has higher compression than a z6 and is less prone to detonation.