EG6sir2seb

Hey guy's, I drive a JDM import EG6 SIR2 with the B16a engine (obviously)

Couldn't find a post related to this topic, so can you guys please give me the low down on the pro's and cons of each header? And can you tell us where to look for such headers? I plan on running mostly Skunk2 everything!
Might be good to see some comparison charts if anyone has any!

Also as the engine becomes futher tuned (i.e. stage 4/5 cams) will that require a change of header type?

thanks

dadsvtechonda

the 4-2-1 are good for low to mid power i like the 4-1 thats more of a high end power like VTEC ahhhhh the sweet power of VTEC

forcefedferio

i would honestly do a little more research before you start buying parts based on brand names, you will find certain parts just work better and are better quality and could be $100 cheaper anyway in some cases....

this doesn't mean open up another window and go to http://www.ebay.com as you're reading this

but back to your question, before i turbo'd my 4door i was using a 4-2-1 mostly because of ground clearance issues, but i believe the 4-1 has better flow charachteristics though, i think the Hi-Tec header provides the most substantial gains i've seen so far.

em1_racer

4-1 is better for high end

SOHC_2_DOHC

4-1 is good for high rpm when your in Vtec and the 4-2-1 is good for mid-range power. I would go with the Type-R header which is a 4-1 design and has a 2.5inch collector, but you would need to get a cat or test-pipe with a 2.5 inch inlet. That header would be the best for NA.

Libertariat

If you're getting a header, spend the extra money and get a GOOD one.

What are your goals? If turbo is in your future then leave the bolt ons alone. If you have some kind of n/a goal, you picked a handicapped motor.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

yeah im gonna agree with what most people have been saying. The B16A has no low end, or midrange..and it never will unless you boost it. Giving up top end would be nothing but a downgrade. The 4-1 will make top end power. You're wasting your time with anything that doesnt make top end power if you're planning on stage 4 or 5 cams.

If those are your plans, get a 4-1 with giant tubing and a big (atleast 2.5'') collector. Toda makes some AWESOME all motor products...but they're very expensive. There's this header....i cant remember the name....a lot of ITB guys were using it around here. It comes out, then goes sideways and snakes around. looks almost like a turbo manifold.

I gotta ask, though. Why do you want such big *** cams?

Sick EM1

i 'd go for 4-1

VTECth1s

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you're getting a header, spend the extra money and get a GOOD one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like rage, hytech tri-y header, smsp, etc, all in the $600+ range for sure.

Capt. Jimbo McSubipants

ANR makes some nice headers for around 500 and pro fab makes a really nice one for 500 as well...

smsp wins in my land tho...just a 1,000 bux for one is a lil pricey....

95jdmcivic

I have a Tom Motorsport 4-2-1 Header, anyone ever heard of it before, seems to be welded very good, I got it for free, didn't install it yet, but im sure it would be better then the stock header right?

btw, heres the link http://www.tommotorsport.com/

ev13lf

i don't know, i kind of like my 40$ summit special airmasss cheapasss header.

EG6sir2seb

I'm going to be using such big cams because I'm only 19 and I live in England! The insurance here, if i were to turbo my car, would eat me alive!
So I have to stick with N/A for a few years, but still want big power returns!
And the B16a is perfect for what i want. I'm not much of a strip racer type of guy, I prefer the circuit, but I do turn up on the strip now and again!

I have ideas to give me low end punch, but that's all in development at the mo!

An-R are no longer producing their compact series headers, and their race headers are A. ugly, and B. take up too much room to fit the oversized radiator!

I like the look and performance of the Bisimoto headers. Never heard of them though. Do they have a good reputation?

Syndacate

4-2-1 is better for daily driven power - 4-1 is more of a racing header .

Bense

get the 4-2-1

BuiltforSin

SMSP 4-1

I love mine!

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4-2-1 is better for daily driven power - 4-1 is more of a racing header .</TD></TR></TABLE>


??? reasoning?

Libertariat

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
??? reasoning?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because in a race you stay in the higher rpms a lot. Thus why you'd want more power at the top end.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Because in a race you stay in the higher rpms a lot. Thus why you'd want more power at the top end.</TD></TR></TABLE>

well yeah. i know that. But let's say that the 4-2-1 makes like 3-5 more hp in the mid range. The B16 makes like .000005hp midrange. Then there's a giant horsepower spike in the top end lol...i'm exxagerating. but you get the point.

What's the point of adding close to nothing(3-5hp) plus nothing(B16A midrange) while sacrificing the engine's area of strength?

Like i said before....NA b16s are never going to make power in the mid range. They start making power at the lowest point being 6k-6500rpm. Why give up top end with the 4-2-1??

When you care about power, you're shifting at redline. Meaning, with the B16 trans, you're putting your self back at 6k in the next gear. Top end. thats all there is to that motor. Honda knew it....and I think everyone should just accept that fact lol.


It's not like the 4-1 saps 10 hp from the low and midrange and you're going to stall at every light when you try to take off. My B16 was still very driveable....it didnt have any low-mid power with the stock manifold....and it never had low-mid power with the 4-1. But i did make up for it with a nice top end.

EG6sir2seb

I wanted 4-1, only knew that they were better with the vtec, just didn't know why!
just thought i'd check on here!

So anyone want to point me in the best direction for 4-1 race headers? Money's not an object, I'll save up to get it! Just want the best for my car!

I really like the Bisimoto headers, good ground clearance (i'm lowered 4-5inches), unusual design/shape, good reputation. So anything along those lines please!

spinksy

i have a DC sports 4-1 and i love it (as said high rpm is way better now)

my mate has a spoon 4-2-1 an when i took him out in my car he couldnt beleave how much better mine pulled at high rpm(in vtec)

doood

iTrader: (1)

what's been said in this thread is mostly true for the vast majority of mass produced OTS headers available. 4-1 = highend, 4-2-1 = midrange, yes we all know that by now.

but, a properly designed tri-y 4-2-1 has the advantages of both designs. nice midrange without sacrificing top end.

without shelling out for a custom one off header, i'd say the toda is the best OTS header for b16's.

EG6sir2seb

The Tri-Y, who makes them?

how do they match up to the bisimoto headers?

I think what I heard about where i'll be circuit racing when I hit the vtec it's rare that i'll drop out of the vtec range! SO absolute top end power is what I need.
thanks

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG6sir2seb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Tri-Y, who makes them?

how do they match up to the bisimoto headers?

I think what I heard about where i'll be circuit racing when I hit the vtec it's rare that i'll drop out of the vtec range! SO absolute top end power is what I need.
thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

well there's really no other way on B16. However, with cams that chunky, you might be putting the powerband to the extreme even if it is a B16A. Unless you're a good enough driver to NEVER let the powerband step below 6-7k, you might be slower around a track. You need your car to be as forgiving as possible. If you over-brake or if you fall out of line and have to slow down....you dont want your car to bog so damn much that it takes you an hour and a half (or a straight away) to get back up to speed.

I can usually keep my S2000 in vtec thru multiple laps, but the one time i screw up or there's a slower car in front of me and I drop to 4k or something in 2nd (i dont like downshifting into 1st at 30something miles an hour lol. I dont care about lap times THAT much. I usually roadrace for fun).....my car doesn't feel like crap. It would if i had giant cams.

But then again, i have no clue what your driving skill level is.

As for header choice, I've said it and "dood" has said it. Toda is gold. The HYTECH is also a nice header. Bisimoto is a good name in drag racing. They make sick NA horsepower numbers.