Fuel Pump Not Working on Backwards Swap
05-06-2006, 07:48 AM
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Fuel Pump Not Working on Backwards Swap
Although I will try to make this as short as possible, this post will end up being long. My problem is on paragraph #5. Paragraph's 1-4 are background leading to my issue.
1 - I have a 98 Civic Hatch with a 99 JDM ITR motor. Both have been doing fine for over 3 years. Recently, I have not been able to pass emissions due to OBDII testing.
2 - Even though it was going to be problematic at emissions time, I decided to swap back into my Civic, well... a Civic motor for testing and then later swap back my ITR motor. Unfortunately, I sold my stock Civic motor 3 years back and had to purchase a used motor out of a wrecked car.
3 - The "used/new" Civic motor is out of a 1999 4 door LX. I noticed that when I went to swap the new motor in, the engine harness does not have a plug for the evap/charcoal canister mounted to the firewall. So, I figured to get a hold of a 1996-1998 engine harness and all will be good. Wrong. The engine harness for the 98 does not mate up with the 99 distributor or the 99 ECU. Okay, fine. I somehow still had my 98 DX ECU and I figured I'd get a 96-98 distibutor and all plugs up fine. Then I notice that the 96-98 engine harness does not have a plutg that plugs into the power steering line, which I assume is a power steering pressure switch, so I ignore that because it is not emissions related and should not affect the functioning of the car.
4 - At this point all looks good and I try to start the car, then nothing. Dash lights up and all works inside car, but motor does not crank. After 2 hours, I notice that the ground on the starter is plugged in but the spade connecter is broken. Fix it and relieved that I can finally get this P.O.S running, I attempt to fire up the car. Starter cranks, but doesn't start.
5 - I realize that when I turn the ignition on, the fuel pump is not priming. WTF?
a. So, I unbolt the two engine grounds on the motor that mounts to the right uni-rail and the ground that mounts to the power steering pump and the radiator support. I then wire brush the snot out of them and the parts of the car they are connected to. Connectors are shiny and bare and reconnected/Grounds are good - Fuel pump still not priming.
b. I check all of the fuses under dash and under hood. None are blown, but I replaced the fuel pump fuse, the main relay fuse and the alternator fuse all with known working fuses off of my girlfriend's Civic. / Checked and replaced fuses - Fuel pump still not working
c. I then pull out the main relay and put it in my girlfriend's Civic and the relay works fine. Her fuel pump primes and engine starts / Ruled out a bad main relay - Fuel pump still not working
d. With the main relay off, I then connect the fuel pump directly to the harness for the main relay and ground fuel pump accordingly. Fuel pumps primes at ignition. I then figured, "what the hell, let's see if the motor turns over while the fuel pump is running," but the car does not start.
e. I also checked that the CKP sensor is connected as I read that low oil pressure will act as a fuel cut off.
6 - Some things worth noting: My coolant is low due to the swap, but the engine should start without full coolant as long as it is not run for an extended period of time. The tranny fluid is also low from swap, but since tranny is in neutral, again this should not be a problem. Brake fluid is way low, because I had to pull the 5 lug 36mm front suspension to replace with 32mm 4 lug for axles. Again, should be none issue to engine starting. The power steering line does not have a connection to the engine harness because apparently the harness I got the car off of did not have power steering. - I have no idea if this is my issue.
6 - What the hell is going on? I have good grounds, good fuses, a working main relay and working fuel pump. It is obviously something electrical, but what? I have been in and out and under this car 100 times between last night and today. I can't find my issue. I am almost about to say "F it" and put my ITR motor back in and let the state pull my registration. Not like there aren't people diriving around without expired registrations in my area.
Any helpful comments or suggestions are welcome. Thanks.
1 - I have a 98 Civic Hatch with a 99 JDM ITR motor. Both have been doing fine for over 3 years. Recently, I have not been able to pass emissions due to OBDII testing.
2 - Even though it was going to be problematic at emissions time, I decided to swap back into my Civic, well... a Civic motor for testing and then later swap back my ITR motor. Unfortunately, I sold my stock Civic motor 3 years back and had to purchase a used motor out of a wrecked car.
3 - The "used/new" Civic motor is out of a 1999 4 door LX. I noticed that when I went to swap the new motor in, the engine harness does not have a plug for the evap/charcoal canister mounted to the firewall. So, I figured to get a hold of a 1996-1998 engine harness and all will be good. Wrong. The engine harness for the 98 does not mate up with the 99 distributor or the 99 ECU. Okay, fine. I somehow still had my 98 DX ECU and I figured I'd get a 96-98 distibutor and all plugs up fine. Then I notice that the 96-98 engine harness does not have a plutg that plugs into the power steering line, which I assume is a power steering pressure switch, so I ignore that because it is not emissions related and should not affect the functioning of the car.
4 - At this point all looks good and I try to start the car, then nothing. Dash lights up and all works inside car, but motor does not crank. After 2 hours, I notice that the ground on the starter is plugged in but the spade connecter is broken. Fix it and relieved that I can finally get this P.O.S running, I attempt to fire up the car. Starter cranks, but doesn't start.
5 - I realize that when I turn the ignition on, the fuel pump is not priming. WTF?
a. So, I unbolt the two engine grounds on the motor that mounts to the right uni-rail and the ground that mounts to the power steering pump and the radiator support. I then wire brush the snot out of them and the parts of the car they are connected to. Connectors are shiny and bare and reconnected/Grounds are good - Fuel pump still not priming.
b. I check all of the fuses under dash and under hood. None are blown, but I replaced the fuel pump fuse, the main relay fuse and the alternator fuse all with known working fuses off of my girlfriend's Civic. / Checked and replaced fuses - Fuel pump still not working
c. I then pull out the main relay and put it in my girlfriend's Civic and the relay works fine. Her fuel pump primes and engine starts / Ruled out a bad main relay - Fuel pump still not working
d. With the main relay off, I then connect the fuel pump directly to the harness for the main relay and ground fuel pump accordingly. Fuel pumps primes at ignition. I then figured, "what the hell, let's see if the motor turns over while the fuel pump is running," but the car does not start.
e. I also checked that the CKP sensor is connected as I read that low oil pressure will act as a fuel cut off.
6 - Some things worth noting: My coolant is low due to the swap, but the engine should start without full coolant as long as it is not run for an extended period of time. The tranny fluid is also low from swap, but since tranny is in neutral, again this should not be a problem. Brake fluid is way low, because I had to pull the 5 lug 36mm front suspension to replace with 32mm 4 lug for axles. Again, should be none issue to engine starting. The power steering line does not have a connection to the engine harness because apparently the harness I got the car off of did not have power steering. - I have no idea if this is my issue.
6 - What the hell is going on? I have good grounds, good fuses, a working main relay and working fuel pump. It is obviously something electrical, but what? I have been in and out and under this car 100 times between last night and today. I can't find my issue. I am almost about to say "F it" and put my ITR motor back in and let the state pull my registration. Not like there aren't people diriving around without expired registrations in my area.
Any helpful comments or suggestions are welcome. Thanks.
05-06-2006, 08:16 AM
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check for power to the fuel pump, your fuel pump might not be working allowing it not to prime or theres a short in between. also another thing is check your oil pressure on some cars if the oil pressure is real low the oil pressure switch will act as a fuel pressure cut- off switch.
05-06-2006, 03:06 PM
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Re: (honda_civic1)
I apparently did not check all of the grounds.
Just after I posted here, I went to the garage and looked over the 99 Engine harness. I noticed that the harness had a ground I didn't recall seeing before. This ground is a flat spade-like connector that is part of the engine harness that connects to a part that the lower radiator hose connects to.
I thought to myself when I saw the connector, "this can't be it." I half heartidly went over to the car knowing that this was not going to resolve the issue. Low and behold the connector was losely bolted on (by me). I wire brushed it and tightened it up, got into the car and fuel pump primed and car started.
Problem fixed. I am actually still in disbelief that this was the issue.
Car is now ready to get emissions tested only to be back in the garage next week.
This sucks.
Just after I posted here, I went to the garage and looked over the 99 Engine harness. I noticed that the harness had a ground I didn't recall seeing before. This ground is a flat spade-like connector that is part of the engine harness that connects to a part that the lower radiator hose connects to.
I thought to myself when I saw the connector, "this can't be it." I half heartidly went over to the car knowing that this was not going to resolve the issue. Low and behold the connector was losely bolted on (by me). I wire brushed it and tightened it up, got into the car and fuel pump primed and car started.
Problem fixed. I am actually still in disbelief that this was the issue.
Car is now ready to get emissions tested only to be back in the garage next week.
This sucks.
01-15-2011, 09:39 PM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Fuel Pump Not Working on Backwards Swap
These are the trials that non-experienced-shadetree-untrained, and cheap home-garage wannabe mechanics go through all the time because they are unwilling to pay a HONDA certified technician to sort out the issue or just compensate the experienced tech to execute the job for you in the first place and save yourself a lot of time, frustration, embarrassment and hair pulling!!!! HASTE MAKES WASTE PEOPLE and inexperience will always show its ugly face when trying to save a dollar or two! DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, or don't do it at all and if you think you can do it but have never done it before; leave it to the pros cuz "WE" are good at what we do for a reason and that's why I get paid as well as I do cuz I am a GURU at anything with a A-badge or H-badge!
THE REAL LS-VTEC KING of the 305!!!! The ONLY TRUE JDMADDKANIC and I own DREAMOTOWERKS!!!!! BEAAAATCH
THE REAL LS-VTEC KING of the 305!!!! The ONLY TRUE JDMADDKANIC and I own DREAMOTOWERKS!!!!! BEAAAATCH
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