pro547

Anybody hear about these things. I bought a new issue of Honda Tuning and well read about it. They are made by Korbach and for 96-00 civics. He stiffen up the frame a lot. The guy said it was like night and day. He also thought it felt like a new car. They are only selling them for $245 but you can get them for $195 till October. Sounds to good to be true. Really thinking about buying these need to hear your thoughts about these.

Website: http://www.korbachperformance.com

Ricey McRicerton

Never heard of them, but interesting to say the least. If you really would like to stiffen up the car more these couldn't really hurt I dont think. Dunno how much it would really help though. The pictures on there do little to explain where they go or how they work (but I must admit I didnt read very much of the site).

Daniel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ricey McRicerton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Never heard of them, but interesting to say the least. If you really would like to stiffen up the car more these couldn't really hurt I dont think.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's a six-page thread on them in the ITR forum. Lots of technical debating as to whether they will or won't work. Good arguments on both sides, but I'm still skeptical.

bob barker

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=942324

Ricey McRicerton

Ah, thanks for the heads up on that. I searched but couldnt find that post on them in the ITR forum. Might wanna post it up if you have the link handy or know what its called.

Here are a few links I found on here about them:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=942324
(seems to be a bit biased on this one)
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=939405


EDIT: Beat me to one of the links

Daniel

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=928139

slammed_93_hatch

well without even looking at the other stuff the only real way to stiffen up the fram is with big strong bars triangulated. (ie a rollcage)

just went to the thread in the ITR forum

found this

No matter how much money and time you’ve already invested, FRAME LOCKS can make your car’s ride and handling substantially better. By locking in the front frame to the existing stiff bumper beam, FRAME LOCKS solidify the entire front end, creating one continuous, rock-solid structure. With FRAME LOCKS installed, everything you love about your import will stay the same; and, all those handling improvements you’ve wished for will soon become a reality.

and the fact remains that you can't make a two parralel lines stiff and dependant on each other by makeing a box. to make the matter worse honda's don't even have two distinct parrelle lines (ie frame) connecting the 'uni-body' to the bumber supports might do alil but i don't think it will do that much.

its just a strut bar using parts already on the car, although it will be a fair superior "stress" bar then the conventional strut bar

pro547

I think it sounds intesting. I think I'm going to purchase it. Hope it makes a difference on my stock HB

phobi9

Amen! And don't forget to write up your experiences

m_soares

I test drove a car with them yesterday, and then the same car without them, they do make a huge difference...

honda lover

im buying a pair. i dont care about the argument against. for 200 ill find out what the deal is for myself. doesnt seem like to difficult an install either. if they are as good as ive heard cant wait to get my pair installed.

slammed_93_hatch

'PLACEBO EFFECT'

HXvtec

i think they are pointless. And for the price a waste. im pretty sure you could make them and be better off.

MNEJ2GUY

intresting...product..I'll wait for the first consumer report on it first...

honda lover

have you read the article in honda tuning? they do a better job of explaining than i will here but the frame locks biggest advantage is that it reduces vibration . quote from article( there is a dynamic fulcrum point known as the vibrational node just forward of the driver. shaking forces from the bumper are transmitted and amplified to the cabin. since the frame rails arent effectively tied together at the bumper, its an inefficient structure and therefore responds to road bumps and engine torque. frame locks use the bumper beam as a part of the front-end chassis, employing brackets to tie the bumper beam extentions to the frame rails and essentially making the bumper beam a load-bearing part of the chassis. )so it seems that they arent just another kind of stiff bar.

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by puffed rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> at the bumper, its an inefficient structure and therefore responds to road bumps and engine torque. frame locks use the bumper beam as a part of the front-end chassis, employing brackets to tie the bumper beam extentions to the frame rails and essentially making the bumper beam a load-bearing part of the chassis. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So does this stiffen the chassis then, or just reduce vibration? It seems odd to me that the bumper beam would have much influence on chassis rigidity.

honda lover

from what i read it seems to do both but i think the main function-benefit is the reduction of vibration. quote from honda tuningthe science behind the product is straightforward: the geometry of the bumper beam/ frame rail joint is weak because the attachment to the beam is made with thin 2.5 mm flanges that flare out latterally from the front of each rail. the vibrating forces exerted on the front structure as the car drives over road surface imperfections are significant, as are the forces of the 500 lb engine bouncing on the mounts that are attached directly to the rails. since these inputs are transmitted through the weak flanges, the car responds by shaking as its driven. the bumper beam is essentially a peice of dead weight shaking at the extreme end point of the car. the fact that it is cantilevered so far forward multiplies the vibrational forces back to the driver.)see earlier post quote (korbach believes frame locks stiffen and solidify front end and reduce frames latteral flex.)

Draggin99Si

Pick up Honda Tuning. You can see really clear pics of it mounted.

Propulsion

Just because people can't understand how they work, doesn't mean they don't.

Ive done some drawings and thinking and I do see the point of these little gusset pieces. And though I don't claim to be a structural engineer, I think I see the function behind this product. they affect a totally different movement than the strutbars or tiebars.

Imagine your 2 frame rails side by side, then imagine it connected across the top and bottom by the front and rear bumper beams. Now, hold one frame rail stationary, and take the other frame rail, and move it straight up and down. The shape goes from a rectangle to a parallelogram.

Now this is the motion that is eliminated by the gussets. Moreover, no matter how many bars you add perpendicular to the frame rails (i.e strut bars), they won't affect this motion.

I think $200-300 is a bit steep for some scrap metal, but you are paying for the idea behind is and not the raw material itself. I myself am thinking of fabing something up since those korbach guys won't respond to my inquiries





Modified by SilverCIVIC96 at 12:47 PM 8/13/2004