Costas Trataris

Hi Everyone

At work ive been hunting google, and mainly this forum for the past week for answers relating to B16A2. I live in Scotland, UK... so im unsure if there are differences between the engine makeup between here and over your side of the pond although i doubt it. But you guys seem to do crazy 1/4 times compared to other civics and more powerfull cars over here, and making even crazier power gains.

First ill post my spec.

1999 EM1 Civic
b16a2 engine with a rolle rbearing T3/4 Turbonetics turbo

J.E pistons
eagle rods
eagle crank
b16b ek9 cams
750cc RC injectors
integra type r gearbox
greddy profec b boost controller
fuel pressure regulater
black chrome boost pipes
spearco front mount intercooler
turbonetics airfilter
38MM External Wastegate
F1 stage 3 competition clutch
Toda lightened flywheel
Chipped P28 ECU
Full 3” custom exhaust system
Custom outlet manifold
Screamer pipe

Car is currently putting out 327 bhp




Now the dilemma i face is... I would like the car at around 4-450bhp for mainly track use but the occasional 1/4. But there is an unbelievable amount of contradictory information on this neck of the pond (there is not a lot of specialist mechanics over here)
Now in order to make my desired target, everyone i have spoken to are all in agreement, the current spec of the car, it CAN make that power. However, it needs sleeves.
Now to get sleeves over here is ridiculously expensive. I would be more cost effective buying a whole new engine and forging that, just to sleeve my current. So sleeving is out the window.
However some of you guys, have got crazy power figures without sleeving, and some down in england too.
The mechanic i deal with is a shithot tuner by all means, and is well known. But he advises me that pushing past 340bhp your getting dangerously close to getting a split liner the next time the engine detonates. Although we could make it so retarded it doesnt do that but you wouldnt be getting those power figures.
In all his almost 30 years of tuning he knows to well of all the stories of people pushing their honda engines past their limit and either blowing them up on the day or a few thousand miles later.

He said he will let me decide what power i want but be warned.

I however do take his advice seriously... but think the car could safely handle around 380.. maybe 400 bhp (not whp)
He is a great tuner and has spent a lot of time and money doing OBD1 tuning, and spends a whole day on one car just perfecting the tune.

SO ideally guys, without sleeving... do you have any advice to squeeze that extra bit more power? Increasing RPM at all? etc.

thanks, Appreciated.

kyden

i would not push the motor if you don't have another one to replace it if it blows up.

most of the guys over 350whp on a stock motor are running e85 also.

if you want to be safe without sleeving, i would do forged rods and pistons. it can hold the number you are looking for.

Costas Trataris

Thanks Kyden,

an E85?

Did u check the spec list? I have J.E. Pistons and Eagle rods... or maybe you mean something different?

kyden

i somehow missed that, sorry.

that probably will work, depending on the type of fuel and turbo. you didnt list the specs on yours so i can't say it will or won't work.

beecee18

I dont see any problems reaching your goals,
But just like Kyden said, givin the proper tuning, and fuel used (which creates a greater window of tuning/detonation resistance)

You will need a turbocharger that has an efficiency map and ability to acheive your goals, and the proper tuning. That is if you are at 81mm.
If you are bored out larger then that then ????

Costas Trataris

it hasnt been bored out no.
how do i get my tuner to do an effeciency map?

i use 99 RON V-Power fuel consistently.

the Turbo is a T4 turbonetics rollerbearing turbo, with a T3 inlet. has a bhp rating of up to 600bhp.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

You should be able to get that from the manufacturer.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ompressor_maps
You don't need one. But knowing how to read one would be beneficial. Simply, you just need to pick a turbo that will spool up when you want it to and make and hold the power you want it to.

Costas Trataris

Thank you...

but the question is the sleeves. Whats the limit for my spec without sleeves? is there any evidence? I would have thought... forged rods and pistons would have no effect on the lining of the cylinder wall's and supposedly that's what will blow if you don't have sleeves.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

A quick Google search netted reports of people running 500-600hp on stock sleeves. But those reports are usually the extreme and blocks have usually been filled, guarded or posted.

I suggest you find a build that is making the power you're looking to get and compare yours to it and make the necessary mods.

beecee18

Thats some yummy petrol there

Trade you anyday for the cali gas!

You have a conservative tuner thats all, and there is nothing wrong with that, Just like he said if you suggest he can just keep raising the wick!

What is your peak boost with that 327

Costas Trataris

UK minimum RON is 95, with 97 on BP garage and 99 available at all shell garages (there are lot's)

I agree, theres nothing wrong with a conservative tuner... i just dont want him being TOO carefull (if that even exists) I just want to squeeze almost every available power before sleeves are needed.

Peak boost at 327 was 13.5 PSI, it's high because and im guessing here, some overlap with the ek9b(CTR) cam's

here's a short video of it from a standstill, to a minor bend in the wet @ 327bhp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv8ZGzJhGe8

beecee18

seems pretty pissed to me lol.

try running milder cams like gsr, you should be running more boost up to 16-18psi. even if you have to take some timing out, but all of this is up to your tuner.
Hell I myself would be happy with that rocket and the fact it probably does quite well off boost too.

doood

iTrader: (1)

400bhp is ~340whp. easily doable even on stock internals.

ej1serge

i recently went past the 450 mark, trying to get close to the 500 mark but not before i install the cpr retrofit on my b16, we have similar setups, the only difference between yours and mine is im on s300, and id1000 injectors, my suggestion would be to port the **** out of the head, i have an alaniz head on mine and it made a noticeable difference, also degree your camshafts a bit so they dont overlap, im also on type r cams and they do the job for boosted motors, also what is the exact size of your turbo? and what compression pistons do you have? i have a PTE6262 currently @ 16psi and I'm at 9.8:1 compression, it seems theres alot of power to squeeze out of your setup if you up the boost, theres guys with higher than stock compression b18c's and theyre boosting more than i am on stock sleeves, its really all up to how good your tuner is.. one thing i would also do if i was you is get s300 and contact a tuner in the states and try to set something up where you can send him datalogs and have him tune your car that way, really sounds like your tuner is just scared to blow your motor lol which is a good thing but if your tryin to make power theres only one way to learn lol blow **** up till something works

-have the cylinder head worked
-degree the cams
-get your hands on a hondata s300 unit
-beef up your fuel (pumps) and ignition (MSD or Hondata CPR)
-get a slightly heavier flywheel (won't make more power but will help keep you in vtec and boost between shifts)
-if your tuners still scared look into water/methanol injection to help with detonation

Costas Trataris

thanks Ej1 serge. appreciate that! most of it i understood, although i have no idea about what my piston compression is, or how to degree the cams... but im sure the tuner knows that?

as for the flywheel, ive not installed it yet... it still has stock flywheel on until it goes for the final tune. So your saying not to put on a lighter flywheel?
this is the turbo here... http://turboneticsinc.com/t3-t4e_turbochargers
Yeah u guys do make crazy power without sleeves, im only running 327 bhp so about what 260whp?
its not just my tuner, lots of other people on my uk forums saying dont go near 400 without sleeves. So maybe its something you americans have we dont? I have no idea... whatever it is, id love to pass it on to my tuner so it can see 400 atleast.

appreciate it fellas

ej1serge

you guys have higher octane fuels so it would be somewhat safer to do it there (on pump gas), what is the elevation level where you live? my last build which consisted of a bone stock b16 (all it had was a skunk manifold and RC 550 injectors, stock camshafts stock everything else) i was able to make 280 hp to the wheels on a turbonetics t3t04e 57trim

the turbo you have there is actually a great turbo for a b16 (you can see it in your torque curve its perfectly flat to redline), its similar to what i had on my last turbo setup but you have the ball bearing version which is great, you shouldnt have a problem making tons more power by upping the boost levels, or you can get a bigger turbo and lower the boost but your spooling times will take a dive on you

and about the flywheel a OEM ITR flywheel is a great flywheel for turbo cars, a bit lighter than a stock b16 fly but not too light to where it will let you fall out of vtec and boost during shifting

jbpnoman

Guys, stop confusing RON with American octane standards. RON 99 ~= US 93. Same fuel, different way of calculating octane.

ej1serge

that's still higher than what i can get here in California.. theres a few 100 octane pumps if i take a short drive to the valley but that wouldn't be very convenient for me

jbpnoman

I could have sworn Shells nation-wide sold 93. Another reason in the book of "why Cali sucks".

ej1serge

it only goes up to 91, & cars arent everything I'd much rather live here than anywhere else lol

Costas Trataris

thanks everyone for the help! Ej1 sarge, ill follow on your reccomendations to the tuner and see what he says.
its just strange how over in the U.S. the power differences with similar mods without being sleeved yet most people over here are scared of any unsleeved 400bhp+ b16a2 engine no matter what internal mods you have. just really dont understand whats the big difference.

thanks again

Costas Trataris

looks like i found the answer...
http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/1...o/viewall.html