ErikFlipside

Hey all! I've been lurking on the site for a few weeks now, just doing searches and reading as much as I possibly can. I should start first by thanking anybody that has ever contributed valuable information to the forum. I think I've learned more about my Civic in the past month than I did in the 10 years I've driven it prior- This is by far the best Honda site, hands down!

OK, enough about me. My car needs some urgent care! Please bear with me...

I have a totally stock '94 Civic LX sedan / AT / D15B7 / ~200K (reads 196K but the speedometer and odometer have only worked intermitently since last summer)

Saturday morning I drove my normal 22 miles to work. 21.5 miles of that is highway driving. Car drove fine. After work I drove to the gas station across the street to get a quart of oil. I knew I was a bit low and needed to top off or at least get it between the lines because I had a long drive out to the paintball field. So I top off and get back on the highway, drive for about 30 minutes at speeds between 65 and 80. Car seemed fine. I get off the highway and at the stop light, my poor girl is idling ROUGH. I mean, she's reeeaaally shaking bad. Now I've had it idle rough before when I got off the highway either going to work or coming home from work, at the light my car would idle rough. If I moved forward, gave it a little gas, or drop out of gear then back in, it would go away. For some reason this only occurs after highway driving. Of course, this time it hasn't gone away, much to my chagrin. At stop lights, it idles around 600-700rpm and acceleration off the line is sluggish at best. It improves once I get to about 3000rpm but low end power is drastically reduced. I have to drop her down a gear to get up long hills on the highway. Not fun. It almost feels like I'm only driving on three cylinders. When I start the car, it cranks fine for a second, then struggles, then turns over. Fuel mileage seems terrible. I don't see any smoking- black, blue or otherwise. There is, however, a strong gasoline smell from the tailpipe. And when idling in parked, even the muffler is bouncing around violently. No CEL.

<U>What I've done so far:</U>
•Replaced PCV valve and hose
•Replaced spark plugs and wires
•New air and fuel filters
•Unplugged the MAP sensor and started the car. CEL came on and idle rose and fell between 800 and 1200rpm. Plugged it back in and RPMs held steady at a low 600-700.

A quick note on the spark plugs. The ones I took out Saturday night weren't in great shape. #1,2,4 suggested either "too hot" according to the Haines manual. There were some dry, white deposits that could be scraped off. #3 showed clear signs of oil deposits but not that bad. This could have been cause a few months ago when I replaced a bad PCV valve. I didn't think to check the plugs at that time. None of them had any bridging or heavy accumulation of deposits. So now I have a new set in there, gapped properly, and I will inspect them after a week of normal driving (lots of highway mileage.)

<U>Thoughts of what's wrong:</U>
•Piston ring shot, no compression, basically a dead #3 cylinder
•Vacuum leak somewhere, though Saturday night my dad and I couldn't find anything
•A few people on my paintball team have suggested a clogged or highly restricted catalytic converter. They said it will do everything I described. I'd work on it today but I don't have enough time to drive it to my parent's house and let it cool down, work on it, deal with all the frustrating complications of working on an old car, etc.
•Worn distributor cap/rotor? I'm about to go replace those anyways, and I have a new bearing and seal on order from Rock Auto. I thought maybe there was a misfire due to worn cap contacts.
•Timing belt wearing out? Due to being a broke-*** college student for the majority of the time I've had the car, and a broke-*** high school student before then, I haven't been able to afford the big tune-ups and maintenances, like getting the timing belt replaced.
•No stalling, so I don't think it's the IAC.
•What do you think???

And just in case this is a worst-case-scenario that requires a new engine, is it possible to drop a D16Z6 in without any other modifications?

Dasfinc

Welcome to Honda-Tech!

Well, first off, a good indicator for rings would be a compression test *Compression tester can be rented for free from autozone*

if that all checks out, i'd almost be thinking maybe you have a slight headgasket leak in piston 3? Take a look at your oil on the dipstick, does it look milky at all? do you burn any coolant?

if that all still looks good I'd run a [freak]-ton of seafoam through it to clear everything out *1/3rd a container in the gas tank, 1/3rd into the intake (Vacuum lines), and some people put 1/3rd into their oil and change their oil after a day or 2. this will help clean all the carbon deposits out of your intake/valves, as well as help clean up the rest of your system *Injectors etc*

the timing belt is typically either 'good or bad' if its good, your car runs, if its bad, you've chunked your pistons or valves.

And a clogged cat will cause power loss all over, not just after freeway driving in low revs.

and lastly I doubt its your ignition since you are burning oil you may want to look more into that. (oil doesn't combust as easily as gas obviously, and you said piston 3 has oil deposits, sounds like something is getting worse)

ErikFlipside

Thanks for the fast reply Dasfinc, and the friendly welcome!

I'll be doing a compression and leak down test later this week. One of my sister's friends is a Honda mechanic, and I just talked to him about fifteen minutes ago about setting up the test, hopefully Thursday evening.

Dipstick is clean. No mixing going on and no coolant loss.

I'm a bit leary about using Seafoam. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole engine has turned into a solid carbon block! I have used AutoRx a few times though. Oh, and I don't know if it's related but I do get quite a bit of soot on the bumper above the tailpipe. But again, I rarely ever notice any black/white/blue smoke unless I'm under very hard acceleration.

As for the possibility of a clogged caty, the power loss is felt during all driving, not just when I get off the highway. I only start to get some pull around 3 grand on the tac, and even then it's nothing like what it was three days ago. Beforet 3000rpm, it's just sluggish and hesitates. Tomorrow I'm going to get the old gal up on the ramps and disconnect the exhaust from the manifold and see what happens. If it is the caty, I should get some immediate (and LOUD) results. I would much rather spend $150 on a new converter than $1000 on a new engine (though dropping in that D16Z6 would be niiiice.) Time permitting, I'm also going to clean out the throttle body and idle air control valve.

Thanks again for the fast response. Much appreciated!

davefromPA

same problem here on my 94 cx. d15b8 I get a sort of turbo-lag at low rpms then it starts pulling after 2000. actually turned off on me in second gear today. very odd. i know my problem is a blown ring. i blow blue smoke all day until it is warm. got the soot problem myself. compression test told me i was 150 across 1 2 and 4 and had 30 in 3. sucks but i have a parts car so not too bad. you can hope that it is a cat but most likely it is not. sorry dude. the z6 will need several things to drop in. use search to find out everything and possibly get a good write up on how to do it. welcome to HT

ErikFlipside

Yeah, the low-end lag is pretty sucky. I'm not blowing much (if any) smoke though, no mosquito fogging, no smoke stacking. Go figure!

ErikFlipside

OK, I had some time today to disconnect the exhaust right below the manifold. No noticeable difference in idle. Of course, I couldn't take it off the ramps to drive it around but there didn't seem much of a point to doing so.

Also unplugged the IAC. Other than having the CEL come on, there wasn't any noticeable differences. Plugged it back in and the CEL went off.

Finally, I took the #3 spark plug out. Wet oil. Shoot. I took out #4 and it had no signs of anything abnormal.

I'm going to try a can of Restore per my brother's suggestion.

davefromPA

DONT RESTORE AT THIS POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if anything use ring seal. riscone is best. hope this gets to you in time

ErikFlipside

Yep, got me in time. I've been cleaning around the house trying not to think about the sad state my Civic is suffering through. I really appreciate the warning. Wasn't able to find "riscone" on Google, though. Is the name correct? Any links you can give me?

ErikFlipside

Did the leakdown test last night:

#1 - 16%
#2 - 94%...oh, the horror!
#3 - 15%
#4 - 15%

So for 200k miles, the cylinders are in decent shape, except 2 is dead. I'm looking for a D16Z6 in the Cincinnati area if anybody knows of one, but I also got a hot tip from my brother about a turbo charged Civic being sold by one of his friends...yeah, I think I'll go that route! Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate it!

davefromPA

its rislone. sorry dude. sounds like your three is blown ring and you might have a blown headgasket. combination problem. if you want a new engine completly go on the marketplace here or go to craigslist.com. good luck on everything though

austinkli

welcome to h-t. If i were you i'd go ahead and fix the blown ring. unless you really don't know what your doing and will have to pay a mechanic, then it'd be hella expensive.

Juan_Mitosis

Thats what I was wondering. Is is worth trashing an engine just because of a piston ring and a headgasket?

austinkli

a head gasket is easy as hell to replace. remove radiator and intake so you got room to work. remove exhaust, remove head cover, that's pretty much it. a blown ring i'm not sure, never done one, but i'd assume if you already got that stuff off to replace the head gasket,it should be pretty easy. but i'm no mechanic, i couldn't tell you for sure. head gasket is easy as hell though, i did so many on my car, (2 on my celica and 2 on my civic) that i do them for my friends too now. $50 dollars and money for the gasket set. lol.

Panda Eg6

D-series motors are so cheap and plentiful i would just suggest swapping in a new one. And you said something about a Z6 you wanted. Complete swaps where I live are only like 400-500 bucks and thats everything.

ErikFlipside

Did the leakdown test last night. 15-15-94-15. So the engine is shot. No head gasket leak though. A rebuild and a D16 swap will cost about the same so I'm going to spend a no more than a week looking for one, and then if there's no luck, I'll tear the engine down and rebuild it.

However, a friend of my brother's is selling a turbo-charged 95 EX, so I'm trying to scrape together the funds to buy it. If there is absolutely no way I can afford it, I will go with the swap.

Thanks guys for all your help. I really appreciate it and will update when I make the final decision about what I'm going to do!

97civic94gsxr

what do you know about that turbo'd car ? i'd imagine its been ran pretty hard and if your body is in good shape you might as well just save the money and swap your car, that way you know how it was driven at all times and you know the maintenence was done at the proper times. with how much driving you say you do you might want to just go n/a b series for reliability reasons.

ErikFlipside

Well, as luck would have it, on the day I was going to check out the turbo'd Civic, I was heading over to my friend's house in my current 94 Civic and got rear-ended at a stop sign! A young girl in a big 1990something Buick hit me pretty hard, whipped my neck a bit but nothing that has caused any problems aside from a little muscle soreness. The car is basically totaled twice over seeing as how there is over $2000 in damage on a car that's probably worth under $1000. We settled without getting the police or insurance involved, so it ended up being a win-win for both of us given the situation. My poor, sad Civic. It was my first and only car, and it has served me well up until the past two weeks. It will be sorely missed, especially when I run into a situation where I will wish I had a 4-door again!

On the up side, I was able to check out the turbo'd 95 Civc EX. Awesome car. I am going to buy it tomorrow, I just need to put move some cash into my checking account. Right now, it's only tuned at 7psi boost but it can go quite a bit higher if I ever feel the need...which I won't. I'm not all that interested in speed, though it certainly is a bonus. The car has 122k on it but the engine, a D16Z6, was rebuilt by the owner and runs amazing. Only 12k on it so far, 3k on the turbo. Metal layer head gasket, new Honda pistons, etc. It looks great and runs even better. It's running a cool air intake, 2.5" exhaust (which is a bit loud for my tastes, so my friend and I will change that to sound more like his '04 Miata.) Adjustable suspension, front and rear strut bars, and 17" wheels riding on new tires (can't remember exactly what they are.) Short shifter, tinted windows, moon roof, Infinity speakers all around, JBL amps, and projection headlights. The owner even did the paintjob himself, which is really nice. It's a matte finish in a soft blue/steel color. I really like it but he then showed me the color he was originally going to paint it- black with a lot of blue pearlesence. It was beauty in liquid form, stored in a paint can , so we'll re-paint it next month once the temperatures are a bit more consistent. For what I'm paying, this car is an absolute steal, and the timing of it all simply could not have been any better. I'm very excited!

97civic94gsxr

Well it sounds like a nice car how much did you get for you car when you got hit ? and how much are you getting the coupe for ?

ErikFlipside

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97civic94gsxr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well it sounds like a nice car how much did you get for you car when you got hit ? and how much are you getting the coupe for ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I got $1000 cash, plus whatever I can get for salvaging it to an auto body shop. That's the 94 parked out on the street. You can see the back left section of the bumper I had to cut off.

As for the new car, just got her Wednesday night.... Only paid $3500 for it.



How fitting that it's an EJ1 and my initials are EJB. I will start a new thread for it since I have a bunch more pictures to show off, and some questions about treating a few small rust spots before getting the car re-painted.

Off to the right is my sister's '99 EX coupe, and in the garage is my mother's '99 LX sedan. Yes, we're a Honda family!


Modified by ErikFlipside at 4:02 AM 3/21/2008