schpiel

Okay, so this is now like my 4th thread on the subject. I will explain the entire problem in a summed up version. Okay, so I finished up swapping in a different motor into my car. The car is a 1992 Honda Civic. I swapped in a stock B18B, bought from a fellow user. I am running a stock p75 ecu. I have replaced so many parts that there is little left to do! The problem with the setup, is that I am getting literally like 150 miles on a full tank of gas?!?! The car also tends to bog whenever I am trying to accelerate, the problem cleared up slightly when I put the new o2 sensor in, but it still sucks. The car is still running slightly rich, which I can't figure out also. As in the car will backfire frequently, as I guess there is obviously too much fuel building up. Here is the things that I have done/replaced and know are in working order...unless the new parts I bought were defective! I will be very happy with any help at all that might lead to me fixing this problem! I am so tired of dealing with this car! Here is the list of things.
Brand new plugs
Brand new wireset
Brand new dizzy
Brand new o2 sensor
checked timing 129359837 times
replaced o-rings on injectors
Possible things I am worried about that could cause this problem.
Bad ECU? Could this cause this problem?
Bad coolant temp sensor?
Vaccum leak on the throttle body? When I replaced the gasket for it, it did not line up perfect, and there was a hole because the throttle body I am using doesn't have the FITV mounted on it. The FITV is mounted on my intake manifold??? Does anyone have a clue what year/model this manifold is found on?
Okay, so as my title states, I will paypal anyone who has the exact solution to this problem, as in, if you say..."Yeah, I have seen this before, and it is your blah blah blah, and I replace it, and it works, you will get $10, yeah it's not much, but where else you gonna get paid to use Honda-Tech? Plus $10 will easily buy lunch or like 2 whole gallons of gas, today anyway! BTW, don't start jumping on things and acting like I owe you money or something. I will not be paying out money for people to just make suggestions. If you're serious and think you know how to correct the problem, let me know, and I will do it. Also, first come first served, if the dude above you mentions the right solution and you do it right below him, sorry he gets the money. This car has really pissed me off, and therefore I am going to a new level to get some help on it, cause it has stumped me beyond belief!

UPDATE!
PROBLEM SOLVED! Read page 5! Thanks to all those that helped!


Modified by schpiel at 9:01 PM 8/8/2008

Relic1

bad ECU - yes it will cause serious problems. But highly doubt that's it, unless you have a re-cased ECU (an ECU that's had the cases switched) or a chipped ECU with the wrong maps in it. - yank the top cover off it and check for a chip and read the three digit code on the MCU (larger square black chip)

bad ECT - yes it could cause this. But easily tested via Helm troubleshooting.

hole on the TB/intake would cause poor mpg and odd running problems since the ECU will always see less vacuum than it expects at idle.

150 miles to a tank of fuel isn't all that bad, if you're foot is to the floor alot...

schpiel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bad ECU - yes it will cause serious problems. But highly doubt that's it, unless you have a re-cased ECU (an ECU that's had the cases switched) or a chipped ECU with the wrong maps in it. - yank the top cover off it and check for a chip and read the three digit code on the MCU (larger square black chip)

bad ECT - yes it could cause this. But easily tested via Helm troubleshooting.

hole on the TB/intake would cause poor mpg and odd running problems since the ECU will always see less vacuum than it expects at idle.

150 miles to a tank of fuel isn't all that bad, if you're foot is to the floor alot...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I will pull the cover on the ECU, but I have talked to the previous owner like 5 times since I bought it and I am pretty sure it is stock. Anyway, I NEVER get on it. This motor is nothing compared to my old setup, so I really don't ever rag on it. I am so used to the massive amount of power and throw you in the seat on my old motor, that I don't really want to get on it in this car. I drive it nice and easy. I have gotten on it hard 1st through 3rd one time since I put it all back in. I usually drive the speed limit everywhere and shift at 3k. Gas is way to expensive to be wasting too!

Former User

Not looking for the $10, but here's a few additional ideas:

Stuck closed fuel pressure regulator, clogged fuel return line, stuck open thermostat, valve clearance out of adjustment, or faulty EVAP system.

full Circling

First things first. Have you checked for ECU CEL codes?

I've had problems with non-OEM throttle body gaskets lining up. I would get an OEM gasket, a spray can of gasket remover, and a razor blade. Plastic razor blades work great if you can find them. They sell them at carquest if you have them in your area. If you can't find them, just use a regular razor, but be careful to not scratch up the mating surfaces too bad. Replace the gasket again, and make SURE that you scrape away EVERY little piece of the old gasket from the throttle body and manifold, especially around the studs on the mani.

Trust me, it doesn't take much leftover gasket material AT ALL to create a vacuum leak at the throttle body. If the gaskets didn't match up exactly, I'd say that you probably have a good size vacuum leak. Did it run different after you replaced the TB gasket? Also, spray the new gasket with wd-40 so it won't stick to the surfaces like the old one did. It'll come right off if you do this.

XxNampsterxX

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RonJ@HT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not looking for the $10, but here's a few additional ideas:

Stuck closed fuel pressure regulator, clogged fuel return line, stuck open thermostat, valve clearance out of adjustment, or faulty EVAP system.</TD></TR></TABLE>

To add to this list, maybe the fuel filter is clogged.

schpiel

Thanks! Now, I forgot to put on there that I got rid of the stock FPR because I already read up on how I thought that might have been the problem, mainly because I thought I might have blown it, with the high output fuel pump I am using. So I replaced it with an adjustable FPR that I had on my built motor, and I was able to drop fuel pressure back down to stock...I still have the fuel pressure gauge mounted on my car. The return line isn't clogged. We haven't checked the valves, but I am not sure how a stock motor that hasn't been touched would get this far out of adjusment...enough to cause it to run like this and get like 15 mpg? Is it possible? I don't know? Also, I removed the charcoal canister, and read on a thread on here, how to bypass it, and did all of those things. I am just going to reinstall that though, just to be 100% sure that that isn't the problem. As far as the fuel filter clogging, how can that happen? I don't know that is why I ask. I did let this car sit in a garage for about 4 months, and then got everything back together. The car did still have about 1/2 a tank of gas in it while it was sitting. The filter wasn't clogged before it went in the garage though?

The only code that the ECU ever threw was a 43. That is something about fuel system supply...blah blah blah. Please know that it only actually has thrown one check engine light since all of this stuff has started. I made a thread about CEL 43 and everybody said that usually that is an O2 sensor. So I replaced the O2, and the car ran a slight bit better. However the MPG remain the same, horrible. The thing with the throttle body gasket is, I got one from the Acura dealer, for a 94 Ls, because the motor is a b18b. It is the JDM one, not the US one, so I don't know how I am supposed to get a gasket that fits it perfect. On my manifold the FITV is mounted on it. On almost every other b-series I see, the FITV is mounted on the throttle body, not the intake maniold? Does anyone know what this is off of? I guess I need to just take the manifold off and get a new intake gasket and when I take it off, I can easily read the code on it...if it's on there. Can a bad vaccum leak really cause all of these problems though, and affect the gas mileage that much. I was getting around 300 miles per tank, with a high compression fully built b20vtec. I now have a stock Ls getting like 150 miles per tank. I need this thing fixed!!!

Thanks everyone for the input so far!!!

palmbayeg

did u check if any of the injectors are bad?

schpiel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by palmbayeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did u check if any of the injectors are bad?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, I got them from a friend of mine. They came off of a running motor. I guess they could be bad though...?

hotrod99

why are did you put used plugs in go get some new plugs and when is the last time you replaced the wires,cap and rotor?

schpiel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hotrod99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why are did you put used plugs in go get some new plugs and when is the last time you replaced the wires,cap and rotor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow I sure hope you just got up...or do you just have a habit of not reading any of thread and then trying to offer some advice...

hotrod99

yeah i just woke up and I just skimmed through it really fast and when you said your using used plugs i just assumed you havent changed any of other ****...my bad,anyway does the car smoke at all?

full Circling

About the TB gasket. If your idle's not surging up and down, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If would have to be a bad vacuum leak for it to affect your car this much. Spray some carb cleaner around the TB to see if it's sucking in air. You'll hear the engine burn up the cleaner if it's sucking it in somewhere. Spray some around your manifold as long as your doing this.

Ahhh the code 43. I had one of those that wouldn't go away for months. I was in the exact same position as you were. I tried EVERYTHING to get rid of that code, when one day it finally hit me. I think i know the answer to your problem. Take off your cat converter, and see how clogged up it is. It should look like looking through a window screen. If it looks like it's more than about 1/3 clogged, replace it. It's one of those things that's easily forgotten about.

I replaced mine with a homemade test pipe, reset the ECU, and it was gone! It ran MUCH better! I recommend actually replacing it with a new cat converter instead of a test pipe, because you will smell like exhaust every time you get out of your car if you don't.

schpiel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hotrod99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah i just woke up and I just skimmed through it really fast and when you said your using used plugs i just assumed you havent changed any of other ****...my bad,anyway does the car smoke at all?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its cool man, I gotcha. They aren't used plugs though, I am using used injectors, which isn't a problem anyway, as long as they weren't bad. The car smokes when ripping on it, which I haven't done much anyway. It is fuel it is burning when it smokes too, not oil. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by full Circling &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ahhh the code 43. I had one of those that wouldn't go away for months. I was in the exact same position as you were. I tried EVERYTHING to get rid of that code, when one day it finally hit me. I think i know the answer to your problem. Take off your cat converter, and see how clogged up it is. It should look like looking through a window screen. If it looks like it's more than about 1/3 clogged, replace it. It's one of those things that's easily forgotten about.

I replaced mine with a homemade test pipe, reset the ECU, and it was gone! It ran MUCH better! I recommend actually replacing it with a new cat converter instead of a test pipe, because you will smell like exhaust every time you get out of your car if you don't.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Lol at smelling like exhaust! I will definitely look into this man!

full Circling

Don't forget about replacing any exhaust gaskets that you unbolt, and resetting the ecu to make the code go away. The ECU throwing the code is what's killing your gas mileage.

hotrod99

oh and to answer your question earlier...yes a leaking throttlebody or manifold will cause it to run like **** also.

z6hatchboy

Check your valve lash too, my car got around 7 mpg once, and sounded like it was cammed at idle and it ended up being my valve lash was way off.

jdmhatch1

What brand o2 sensor did you get?

schpiel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by z6hatchboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Check your valve lash too, my car got around 7 mpg once, and sounded like it was cammed at idle and it ended up being my valve lash was way off.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dang...are you serious?! Was it like bogging also during acceleration, because no joke I used to have a stage 3 cam in my built b20 v, and when I put this stock motor in, I was telling my buddy, man it sounds like it is still cammed! I am going to check these valves ASAP!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmhatch1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What brand o2 sensor did you get?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I got a bosch, yes I know they are not the best for Hondas. I have used them before, and they have worked, and plus it was all I could get at my work on discount...and I am broke and not spending $120 on a Honda one.

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

Yeah people are quick to hate Bosch stuff, I replaced my B16A's O2 sensor with a Bosch universal back in '01, still works and I get up 38 mpg frequently.

I'm not saying Bosch is the ****, I have to agree with most people that Denso/NTK (NGK) is the way to go.

/my .02

fortymcpants

you say that you checkedtiming 659823745938365823934756 times, but what timing? retarded ignition timing will make the car run like you say, if you havent checked it, definately do that first. and if you have checked it and not the timing belt check that. if you did both then i waisted my time.

schpiel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fortymcpants &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you say that you checkedtiming 659823745938365823934756 times, but what timing? retarded ignition timing will make the car run like you say, if you havent checked it, definately do that first. and if you have checked it and not the timing belt check that. if you did both then i waisted my time. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry man, I should have clarified, that I checked both cam/crank and ignition timing...I usually just say timing and figure that let's people know that I am refering to both. Either way both were dead on! Good looking out though

schpiel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mcvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah people are quick to hate Bosch stuff, I replaced my B16A's O2 sensor with a Bosch universal back in '01, still works and I get up 38 mpg frequently.

I'm not saying Bosch is the ****, I have to agree with most people that Denso/NTK (NGK) is the way to go.

/my .02</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah I totally agree man. I put a bosch on my old car like 4 years ago, and my brother is still driving it today with no problems. whatever, if i had money I would have bought a different one...haha

schpiel

bump!

full Circling

did you take off the cat yet? i would at least take it off, reset the ecu, and drive around for a few minutes to see if the code clears.