few newbie questions
11-15-2003, 08:38 PM
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few newbie questions
ok i am a long time dsm guy i am going to buy a 92 si hatch i want toput a better powerplant in it i want to know what is a good swap and also the ease of it
what imean is what wiring will i have to do any help would be great
what imean is what wiring will i have to do any help would be great
11-15-2003, 08:57 PM
#3
Re: few newbie questions (diamondstar)
start reading and searching...
Some will tell you don't swap out the 1.6 that's in there... turbo it and you'll be good... or better yet pull it build it and turbo it...
It's really more a matter of budget and goals than which is the best...
There are LOTS of options...
B16a1/2/3:
The 1 and 2 came in japanesse civics (some of them), and the 3 came in the delsol here (I think it's the 96 "with vtec" (even though the si delsol of the same year has the d16z6 which is vtec))
kinda torqueless and imo kind of a waste to spend 2k+ just to have a tunable exhaust cam and vtec on the exhaust side (sohc vtec's don't have vtec lobes for the exhaust)... although it does have a higher hp limit on stock internals than a D series engine.
B16b:
Came in the japanese civic "type R"
Again with the whole no torque thing... and it is a lot more "maxed out" from stock than the b16a's... although it's a powerful engine and with it's tranny it can definately be quick...
B18a/b:
Came in LS/RS/GS integra's... the letter I believe denotes obd1 or obd2 (a being 1 and b being 2)... but I could be wrong.
It's a NON-vtec B series... there are LOTS of aftermarket parts available for it as is the case with any B. it's considered a pretty good motor to turbo. It's a LOT cheaper than the vtec motors... but obviously doesn't perform the same out of the box... Some people use it's bottom end and mate it to a Bseries vtec head making a "LSVTEC"... or poormans gsr.
B18c1:
Came in integra GSR's
Good all around swap... it's got some torque and it's got vtec... so it revs high but makes decent power down low.... It's more expensive than a b16a but not as expensive as a b16b (the "Type R" comes at a premium)
B18c5/R:
Came in integra type R's
It's the "money motor"... it's the most expensive and highest stock output... it revs high and makes pretty good power all over... it's tranny is pretty short and has a stock lsd. and I believe a higher final drive than the other tegs....
B20
Came in the CRV.
It's a 2.0 so it's got a good amount of torque and as it's a B series it can be mated to a vtec head to make a "crvtec"... which try's to take advantage of the high displacement of the b20 block and the high reving power of the vtec head...
H22a
Came in the Prelude
2.2 liters so it's the king of torque... it's got vtec so it revs high from the factory... it's just a little crazy for most... but it's becoming more and more popular... and due to it's higher level of work it's actually pretty cheap... (the motor at least) but it probobly all evens out in the end...
Over all I'd say SEARCH for everything you have a question about... I'm SURE it's been covered before... MAKE SURE you search "archieved content" too...
I'd just spend the next couple of weeks/months searching... DO NOT jump into buying something before you have a VERY good handle on what you're getting into and are SURE you want whatever it is you pick and know what getting it into your car entails....
Welcome...
you'll regret leaving the DSM powertrain behind in NO TIME.
Some will tell you don't swap out the 1.6 that's in there... turbo it and you'll be good... or better yet pull it build it and turbo it...
It's really more a matter of budget and goals than which is the best...
There are LOTS of options...
B16a1/2/3:
The 1 and 2 came in japanesse civics (some of them), and the 3 came in the delsol here (I think it's the 96 "with vtec" (even though the si delsol of the same year has the d16z6 which is vtec))
kinda torqueless and imo kind of a waste to spend 2k+ just to have a tunable exhaust cam and vtec on the exhaust side (sohc vtec's don't have vtec lobes for the exhaust)... although it does have a higher hp limit on stock internals than a D series engine.
B16b:
Came in the japanese civic "type R"
Again with the whole no torque thing... and it is a lot more "maxed out" from stock than the b16a's... although it's a powerful engine and with it's tranny it can definately be quick...
B18a/b:
Came in LS/RS/GS integra's... the letter I believe denotes obd1 or obd2 (a being 1 and b being 2)... but I could be wrong.
It's a NON-vtec B series... there are LOTS of aftermarket parts available for it as is the case with any B. it's considered a pretty good motor to turbo. It's a LOT cheaper than the vtec motors... but obviously doesn't perform the same out of the box... Some people use it's bottom end and mate it to a Bseries vtec head making a "LSVTEC"... or poormans gsr.
B18c1:
Came in integra GSR's
Good all around swap... it's got some torque and it's got vtec... so it revs high but makes decent power down low.... It's more expensive than a b16a but not as expensive as a b16b (the "Type R" comes at a premium)
B18c5/R:
Came in integra type R's
It's the "money motor"... it's the most expensive and highest stock output... it revs high and makes pretty good power all over... it's tranny is pretty short and has a stock lsd. and I believe a higher final drive than the other tegs....
B20
Came in the CRV.
It's a 2.0 so it's got a good amount of torque and as it's a B series it can be mated to a vtec head to make a "crvtec"... which try's to take advantage of the high displacement of the b20 block and the high reving power of the vtec head...
H22a
Came in the Prelude
2.2 liters so it's the king of torque... it's got vtec so it revs high from the factory... it's just a little crazy for most... but it's becoming more and more popular... and due to it's higher level of work it's actually pretty cheap... (the motor at least) but it probobly all evens out in the end...
Over all I'd say SEARCH for everything you have a question about... I'm SURE it's been covered before... MAKE SURE you search "archieved content" too...
I'd just spend the next couple of weeks/months searching... DO NOT jump into buying something before you have a VERY good handle on what you're getting into and are SURE you want whatever it is you pick and know what getting it into your car entails....
Welcome...
you'll regret leaving the DSM powertrain behind in NO TIME.
11-15-2003, 11:33 PM
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Re: few newbie questions (NonovUrbizniz)
you'll regret leaving the DSM powertrain behind in NO TIME.
How will he regret the drivetrain???The DSM trannies are horrible the only thing he might regret is the traction...
Welcome to owning a Honda
How will he regret the drivetrain???The DSM trannies are horrible the only thing he might regret is the traction...
Welcome to owning a Honda
11-16-2003, 08:01 AM
#5
Re: few newbie questions (righteyeblind)
If you think a honda has a better powertrain (engine tranny and driveline) than a 1st gen talon/eclipse then you have NO idea what you're talking about...
AWD 2.0 Turbo beats FWD 1.8 non-turbo ANY DAY....
Not only are the DSM's built stronger from the factory (SS valves, Foreged pistons, Closed deck design)... IMO 2.0 for 2.0 they're MUCH better engines than ANY honda be it a b20 or a b18c5 bored/stroked to make 2.0.
Certainly better for hp and the general "there's SOOO much available for honda's" arguement is moot seeing as there are companies like buschur that make just about anything and everything you would need to make just about ANY hp number you want...
Overall the DSM powertrain is WAY WAY superior to a honda's.
AWD 2.0 Turbo beats FWD 1.8 non-turbo ANY DAY....
Not only are the DSM's built stronger from the factory (SS valves, Foreged pistons, Closed deck design)... IMO 2.0 for 2.0 they're MUCH better engines than ANY honda be it a b20 or a b18c5 bored/stroked to make 2.0.
Certainly better for hp and the general "there's SOOO much available for honda's" arguement is moot seeing as there are companies like buschur that make just about anything and everything you would need to make just about ANY hp number you want...
Overall the DSM powertrain is WAY WAY superior to a honda's.
11-16-2003, 08:03 AM
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Re: few newbie questions (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Overall the DSM powertrain is WAY WAY superior to a honda's.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i agree, but aren't they notorious for completely fingering themselves at a little over 100k?
i agree, but aren't they notorious for completely fingering themselves at a little over 100k?
11-16-2003, 08:35 AM
#7
Re: few newbie questions (jwn7)
I've heard of crankwalk issues on the later model ones...
I don't know about highmilage issues... I know a couple dudes with them that have over 100k on them...
Course I also know 2 guys who's just died... One blew the head apart when he f'd with the timing... and the otherone just quit and the kid wasn't mechanical so he just got a new car.
They're SICK cars... not even comparable to a civic or integra...
I had a 1.6 sentra with cams... and my body in his BONE STOCK 1st gen talon SMOKED ME like I wasn't moving without EVER going over 4k. in ANY gear...
They're FAST cars...
If you want reliablity then I'd probobly recomend honda/nissan over a DSM... but if you want something to make fast... buying a honda is like TRYING to make it challenging... An AWD turbo DSM is faster out of the box then a civic would be with a swap AND turbo. not to mention it'd have REDICULOUS advantage in the traction dept...
Just better go-fast cars imo.
I don't know about highmilage issues... I know a couple dudes with them that have over 100k on them...
Course I also know 2 guys who's just died... One blew the head apart when he f'd with the timing... and the otherone just quit and the kid wasn't mechanical so he just got a new car.
They're SICK cars... not even comparable to a civic or integra...
I had a 1.6 sentra with cams... and my body in his BONE STOCK 1st gen talon SMOKED ME like I wasn't moving without EVER going over 4k. in ANY gear...
They're FAST cars...
If you want reliablity then I'd probobly recomend honda/nissan over a DSM... but if you want something to make fast... buying a honda is like TRYING to make it challenging... An AWD turbo DSM is faster out of the box then a civic would be with a swap AND turbo. not to mention it'd have REDICULOUS advantage in the traction dept...
Just better go-fast cars imo.
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11-16-2003, 08:46 AM
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Re: few newbie questions (NonovUrbizniz)
some kid around here has a awd talon that runs 11s 
on 23 psi. next time im at the strip ill talk to him a little more about it.
btw, what does dsm stand for anyway?
on 23 psi. next time im at the strip ill talk to him a little more about it.btw, what does dsm stand for anyway?
11-16-2003, 08:56 AM
#10
Re: few newbie questions (jwn7)
Diamond Star Motors...
It's the name of the joint venture company chrysler and mitsubishi put together...
Diamond (mitsu's symbol the triple diamond) and Chrysler's Star...
Oh you can get a talon into the 11's with almost NO work...
here's a place local to me that does some pretty sick stuff from what I HEAR...
http://www.pruvenperformance.com/media.html
their shop talon ran a 9.6 @ 144 with no nitrous.
I'd like to get one but have no extra money to do so...
It's the name of the joint venture company chrysler and mitsubishi put together...
Diamond (mitsu's symbol the triple diamond) and Chrysler's Star...
Oh you can get a talon into the 11's with almost NO work...
here's a place local to me that does some pretty sick stuff from what I HEAR...
http://www.pruvenperformance.com/media.html
their shop talon ran a 9.6 @ 144 with no nitrous.
I'd like to get one but have no extra money to do so...
11-16-2003, 09:02 AM
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Re: few newbie questions (NonovUrbizniz)
DSM may own the stright line, but honda's own the twisties and thats the only racing there is 
(don't take that serously)
(don't take that serously)
11-16-2003, 09:05 AM
#12
Re: few newbie questions (slammed_93_hatch)
All of it or just the "that's the only real racing" part...
Cuz AWD turbo will own FWD NA in the twisties too...
The ONLY time I've ever been genuinely scared in a car is when my buddy slammed his stock tsi into 2nd mid S-curve and SLAMMED on the gas for all it was worth...
It was disquisting... we were doing like 70 by the time we were out of the S's... I can't take that same set of corners at ANYTHING over 50... much less downshift and floor it at the apex.
God I want one.
Cuz AWD turbo will own FWD NA in the twisties too...
The ONLY time I've ever been genuinely scared in a car is when my buddy slammed his stock tsi into 2nd mid S-curve and SLAMMED on the gas for all it was worth...
It was disquisting... we were doing like 70 by the time we were out of the S's... I can't take that same set of corners at ANYTHING over 50... much less downshift and floor it at the apex.
God I want one.
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