FAQ: Brake System Differences Between 99-00 CIVIC EX And The 99-00 CIVIC SI (EJ8 vs EM1). CONVERSIO
05-11-2006, 10:40 PM
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Brake System Differences Between The 99-00 2DR EX (MT, non-ABS) And The 99-00 2DR SI (EJ8 vs EM1)
***** DISCLAIMER *****
The following is an analysis of the USDM OEM Part List for the 99-00 CIVIC 2DR EX (MT, non-ABS), and the 99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI. The differences discussed herein are BASED ENTIRELY ON THE USDM OEM PART NUMBER DISPLAYED AT AN ONLINE RETAILER, so any noted differences do not necessarily mean that one absolutely needs to swap or use something (i.e. Prop Valve, Nuts, Brackets etc.). Use your best judgement when drawing your own conclusions, and understand that I take no responsibility for any damages or injury to property or person as a result of one using this information. This is not a How-To. It is merely a comparison between the two models' parts list, with comments. So, to the best of my knowledge...
**********************
The differences between the Brake Systems of the *USDM* 99-00 CIVIC 2DR EX (MT, non-ABS) and 99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI are as follows.
Chassis/Front Brakes:
EXACT SAME SETUP. You don't believe me??? Then double-browse and toggle, bitch!!
Chassis/Brake Lines:
The Rear Brake Hose for the EX is actually split into 2 smaller hoses. The SI uses a single hose from the Hard Line outlet, and uses 2 extra bolts to mount the Rear Brake Hose. The end fittings of the hoses are different as well, as the Disc Brake Hoses attach to the Banjo Bolt on the Caliper, while Drum Brake Hoses attach to the Drum's Hydraulic Cylinder.
EX Uses: 46331-S04-000, 46361-S04-000 (R/L Hose - To Drum); 2 x (01466-S04-000) (Hose - To Hard Line)
SI Uses: 01466-S04-900, 01468-S04-900, (R/L Hoses); 2 x (93403-08020-08) (Bolts)
The Proportioning Valve IS DIFFERENT. **Whether or not a swap is "needed" is debatable.** Read more about it in the links below...
EX Uses: 46210-S04-962
SI Uses: 46210-S04-902
Nuts... For some reason, the EX uses a "Special Nut (6x18)", and the SI uses a "Paint Cutting Nut (6mm)". It's #22 in the upper left corner of the following diagram.
http://slhondaparts.com/images...4.jpg
EX Uses: 90222-S04-003
SI Uses: 90301-SP0-003
Chassis/Master Power (Hydraulics):
The entire Brake Booster & Brake Master Cylinder system is identical except for the "Master Power Tube Assembly". I don't know for sure what accounts for this, but it is not considered a "need for swap" item. The only thing I can think of that accounts for this difference is in the spacing of the Engine Bay. Maybe the B-series requires a slightly different route for its Brake Hydraulics. I don't know, since I've never had either in my hands, but anyway...
EX Uses: 46402-S01-A11
SI Uses: 46402-S02-A11
Chassis/Parking Brake (E-Brake):
The difference here is in the end fittings for the cables, and the associated hardware. Some people have claimed you can use Integra cables, DelSol cables, blah blah blah. Go away. Re-read the Topic Title... The good thing is, we know SI cables will FIT PERFECTLY!!!
EX Uses: 47510-SR1-A12, 47560-SR1-A12 (Cables)
SI Uses: 47510-S04-932, 47560-S04-932 (Cables); 2 x (43471-SD2-930) (Clevis Pin); 2 x (90705-SD2-931) (Cotter Pin); 2 x (90651-SV1-A01) (Cable-to-Caliper Retaining Clip)
Chassis/Rear Lower Arm:
There are actually a lot of PN differences between the "Rear Lower Arm" assemblies, but a lot of them are the result of the SI actually HAVING an Anti-Sway Bar (Spring). For this Topic's purpose, the "real" differences are in the Brake Hose Brackets and the *** SPINDLE *** (Trailing Arm). Some people don't switch the Brake Hose Bracket, or choose not to use it. The Spindle is what makes the OEM 99-00 EX to SI Disc Conversion possible. In fact, you don't need to swap the Trailing Arm out. You can swap from the Spindle outward... The only way around it is to fabricate a bracket onto which you'll mount your Calipers. AEM used to make a conversion kit, but they don't anymore. In fact, they're not even in the Brake business... Anyway...
EX Uses: 46438-SH3-A03, 46439-SH3-A03 (Brackets); 52370-S04-A00, 52371-S04-A00 (Trailing Arms with Drum Brake Spindles)
SI Uses: 46438-SR3-010, 46439-SR3-010 (Brackets); 52370-S04-A21, 52371-S04-A21 (Trailing Arms with Disc Brake Spindles)
Chassis/Rear Brake (Drum/Disc):
The part differences here are too numerous to list, as some of the "Assemblies" are listed as individual parts. The best thing I can do is provide links to their respective systems. It would help more to list the parts they have IN COMMON.
EX & SI Use: 2 x (42324-SB2-020) (Hub Washer); 2 x (42326-SB2-000) (Hub Cap); 2 x (42326-SB2-000) (Bleeder Screw Cap); 8 x (90113-SA0-006 or 90113-SA0-025) (Lug Studs); 2 x (90305-692-010) (Spindle Nut (with raised shoulder))
99-00 EX Rear Drum Brake Parts List: http://slhondaparts.com/browse...81%29
99-00 EX Rear Drum Brake Diagram: http://slhondaparts.com/images...2.jpg
99-00 SI Rear Disc Brake Parts List: http://slhondaparts.com/browse...SK%29
99-00 SI Rear Disc Brake Diagram: http://slhondaparts.com/images...3.jpg
(<FONT COLOR="red">EDIT: Correction...!!!</FONT>)
The Disc Brake Hub/Bearing Assembly differs from its Drum Brake counterpart (see 2 posts down).
EX Uses: 42200-S04-008
SI Uses: 42200-SR3-A06
There are also some bolts that are commonly used, but in different ways...
Other than that, ** THERE ARE NO OTHER DIFFERENCES IN THE BRAKE SYSTEMS BETWEEN THE 99-00 CIVIC 2DR EX (MT, non-ABS) AND THE 99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI **. I suppose you might also use this information to do a Disc to Drum Swap if you wanted to take your car back to stock...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some associated links..
Click Here For Info On Interchangeable parts - This was the thread that I started reading when I began my journey. It has grown into a monster, but there are lots of goodies here and there.
Click Here For Info On Brake Swaps - THIS IS BEST SOURCE OF ANSWERS FOR YOUR GENERAL BRAKE SWAP QUESTIONS
Click Here For Info On How To Convert From Drums To Discs, 6th Gen - This has been my reference for my conversion. Lots of pics and a well written how-to.
Click Here For Great Prices On Your OEM Honda Parts - HANDS DOWN THE BEST PLACE TO GET YOUR OEM PARTS. 'Nuff said.
Click Here For Info On The Great Proportioning Valve Debate
Don't ask me.. EDUCATE TYSELF, MY BROTHER!!! ETYMOLOGICAL ROOTS, BABY!
I want to thank HondaPartsDeals.com, SLHondaParts.com, BREMBO Brakes For their downloadable OEM Replacement catalog (if I can find a link, I'll update..), and the many contributors to and moderators of this great site. I hope I have been able to help guide those who were wondering the same things I was when I started out. Last but not least, I want to thank **YOU** for taking the time to fully and carefully read what was written. I only hope it was worth it... ahem...
In closing, take this time to contemplate the Title of this Topic, and understand how much it would help others who might need this information to not have to wade through: posts unrelated to the Models and Systems mentioned above; trivial interjections; tangential escapades; "My Cyber-Dick is bigger than Your Cyber-Dick" arguments; and the mindless dribble of the Original Poster relating to the frustrations of the above... I welcome corrections provided they are detailed and provable (pix!! linx!!), and while the comparison is complete (...?), there are some differences I can't explain. Feel free to contribute in that regard.
Hope this helps...
JasonGhostz
Modified by JasonGhostz at 6:14 PM 7/8/2007
The following is an analysis of the USDM OEM Part List for the 99-00 CIVIC 2DR EX (MT, non-ABS), and the 99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI. The differences discussed herein are BASED ENTIRELY ON THE USDM OEM PART NUMBER DISPLAYED AT AN ONLINE RETAILER, so any noted differences do not necessarily mean that one absolutely needs to swap or use something (i.e. Prop Valve, Nuts, Brackets etc.). Use your best judgement when drawing your own conclusions, and understand that I take no responsibility for any damages or injury to property or person as a result of one using this information. This is not a How-To. It is merely a comparison between the two models' parts list, with comments. So, to the best of my knowledge...
**********************
The differences between the Brake Systems of the *USDM* 99-00 CIVIC 2DR EX (MT, non-ABS) and 99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI are as follows.
Chassis/Front Brakes:
EXACT SAME SETUP. You don't believe me??? Then double-browse and toggle, bitch!!
Chassis/Brake Lines:
The Rear Brake Hose for the EX is actually split into 2 smaller hoses. The SI uses a single hose from the Hard Line outlet, and uses 2 extra bolts to mount the Rear Brake Hose. The end fittings of the hoses are different as well, as the Disc Brake Hoses attach to the Banjo Bolt on the Caliper, while Drum Brake Hoses attach to the Drum's Hydraulic Cylinder.
EX Uses: 46331-S04-000, 46361-S04-000 (R/L Hose - To Drum); 2 x (01466-S04-000) (Hose - To Hard Line)
SI Uses: 01466-S04-900, 01468-S04-900, (R/L Hoses); 2 x (93403-08020-08) (Bolts)
The Proportioning Valve IS DIFFERENT. **Whether or not a swap is "needed" is debatable.** Read more about it in the links below...
EX Uses: 46210-S04-962
SI Uses: 46210-S04-902
Nuts... For some reason, the EX uses a "Special Nut (6x18)", and the SI uses a "Paint Cutting Nut (6mm)". It's #22 in the upper left corner of the following diagram.
http://slhondaparts.com/images...4.jpg
EX Uses: 90222-S04-003
SI Uses: 90301-SP0-003
Chassis/Master Power (Hydraulics):
The entire Brake Booster & Brake Master Cylinder system is identical except for the "Master Power Tube Assembly". I don't know for sure what accounts for this, but it is not considered a "need for swap" item. The only thing I can think of that accounts for this difference is in the spacing of the Engine Bay. Maybe the B-series requires a slightly different route for its Brake Hydraulics. I don't know, since I've never had either in my hands, but anyway...
EX Uses: 46402-S01-A11
SI Uses: 46402-S02-A11
Chassis/Parking Brake (E-Brake):
The difference here is in the end fittings for the cables, and the associated hardware. Some people have claimed you can use Integra cables, DelSol cables, blah blah blah. Go away. Re-read the Topic Title...
The good thing is, we know SI cables will FIT PERFECTLY!!!EX Uses: 47510-SR1-A12, 47560-SR1-A12 (Cables)
SI Uses: 47510-S04-932, 47560-S04-932 (Cables); 2 x (43471-SD2-930) (Clevis Pin); 2 x (90705-SD2-931) (Cotter Pin); 2 x (90651-SV1-A01) (Cable-to-Caliper Retaining Clip)
Chassis/Rear Lower Arm:
There are actually a lot of PN differences between the "Rear Lower Arm" assemblies, but a lot of them are the result of the SI actually HAVING an Anti-Sway Bar (Spring). For this Topic's purpose, the "real" differences are in the Brake Hose Brackets and the *** SPINDLE *** (Trailing Arm). Some people don't switch the Brake Hose Bracket, or choose not to use it. The Spindle is what makes the OEM 99-00 EX to SI Disc Conversion possible. In fact, you don't need to swap the Trailing Arm out. You can swap from the Spindle outward... The only way around it is to fabricate a bracket onto which you'll mount your Calipers. AEM used to make a conversion kit, but they don't anymore. In fact, they're not even in the Brake business... Anyway...
EX Uses: 46438-SH3-A03, 46439-SH3-A03 (Brackets); 52370-S04-A00, 52371-S04-A00 (Trailing Arms with Drum Brake Spindles)
SI Uses: 46438-SR3-010, 46439-SR3-010 (Brackets); 52370-S04-A21, 52371-S04-A21 (Trailing Arms with Disc Brake Spindles)
Chassis/Rear Brake (Drum/Disc):
The part differences here are too numerous to list, as some of the "Assemblies" are listed as individual parts. The best thing I can do is provide links to their respective systems. It would help more to list the parts they have IN COMMON.
EX & SI Use: 2 x (42324-SB2-020) (Hub Washer); 2 x (42326-SB2-000) (Hub Cap); 2 x (42326-SB2-000) (Bleeder Screw Cap); 8 x (90113-SA0-006 or 90113-SA0-025) (Lug Studs); 2 x (90305-692-010) (Spindle Nut (with raised shoulder))
99-00 EX Rear Drum Brake Parts List: http://slhondaparts.com/browse...81%29
99-00 EX Rear Drum Brake Diagram: http://slhondaparts.com/images...2.jpg
99-00 SI Rear Disc Brake Parts List: http://slhondaparts.com/browse...SK%29
99-00 SI Rear Disc Brake Diagram: http://slhondaparts.com/images...3.jpg
(<FONT COLOR="red">EDIT: Correction...!!!</FONT>)
The Disc Brake Hub/Bearing Assembly differs from its Drum Brake counterpart (see 2 posts down).
EX Uses: 42200-S04-008
SI Uses: 42200-SR3-A06
There are also some bolts that are commonly used, but in different ways...
Other than that, ** THERE ARE NO OTHER DIFFERENCES IN THE BRAKE SYSTEMS BETWEEN THE 99-00 CIVIC 2DR EX (MT, non-ABS) AND THE 99-00 CIVIC 2DR SI **. I suppose you might also use this information to do a Disc to Drum Swap if you wanted to take your car back to stock...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some associated links..
Click Here For Info On Interchangeable parts - This was the thread that I started reading when I began my journey. It has grown into a monster, but there are lots of goodies here and there.
Click Here For Info On Brake Swaps - THIS IS BEST SOURCE OF ANSWERS FOR YOUR GENERAL BRAKE SWAP QUESTIONS
Click Here For Info On How To Convert From Drums To Discs, 6th Gen - This has been my reference for my conversion. Lots of pics and a well written how-to.
Click Here For Great Prices On Your OEM Honda Parts - HANDS DOWN THE BEST PLACE TO GET YOUR OEM PARTS. 'Nuff said.
Click Here For Info On The Great Proportioning Valve Debate
Don't ask me.. EDUCATE TYSELF, MY BROTHER!!! ETYMOLOGICAL ROOTS, BABY!
I want to thank HondaPartsDeals.com, SLHondaParts.com, BREMBO Brakes For their downloadable OEM Replacement catalog (if I can find a link, I'll update..), and the many contributors to and moderators of this great site. I hope I have been able to help guide those who were wondering the same things I was when I started out. Last but not least, I want to thank **YOU** for taking the time to fully and carefully read what was written. I only hope it was worth it... ahem...
In closing, take this time to contemplate the Title of this Topic, and understand how much it would help others who might need this information to not have to wade through: posts unrelated to the Models and Systems mentioned above; trivial interjections; tangential escapades; "My Cyber-Dick is bigger than Your Cyber-Dick" arguments; and the mindless dribble of the Original Poster relating to the frustrations of the above... I welcome corrections provided they are detailed and provable (pix!! linx!!), and while the comparison is complete (...?), there are some differences I can't explain. Feel free to contribute in that regard.
Hope this helps...
JasonGhostz
Modified by JasonGhostz at 6:14 PM 7/8/2007
07-08-2007, 05:45 PM
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What's All The Hubbub, Bub???
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JasonGhostz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chassis/Rear Brake (Drum/Disc):
One interesting thing to note is that the Disc Brake Hub/Bearing Assembly only differs from its Drum Brake counterpart due to the fact that the Disc Brake Hubs need threaded holes for the Rotor/Disc Retaining Screws. I am 99.99% sure the Hubs are otherwise identical in dimension and function.
EX Uses: 42200-S04-008
SI Uses: 42200-SR3-A06</TD></TR></TABLE>... WRONG!!!
I just got back from Kragen, and here's what I discovered:
I found that they had this part available in store, a 96-00 Rear Hub for Drum Brakes (I can only *assume* it's the same as for 92-95 Drum Brake Assemblies):
http://www.partsamerica.com/Pr...Set=A
When I got there, I took my Disc Brake Hub & Spindle. When the cutie counter girl came back, I tried to slide the Hub/Bearing Assembly onto the Spindle... NO GO. I measured the Inner Diameter for the Bearing's Inner Race:
http://img86.imageshack.us/img...8.jpg
... looks like 1.100"
The Inner Diameter for the Inner Race for the Disc Brake Hub/Bearing Assembly is about 1.181"...
http://img211.imageshack.us/im...6.jpg
Furthermore, the Drum Brake H/BA is "shorter" than the Disc Brake counterpart...
http://img231.imageshack.us/im...3.jpg
The Drum Brake H/BA is on the Left, the Disc Brake H/BA is on the Right, the Disc Brake Spindle is between them (background), and the nice girl who helped me is in the upper right... I should've gotten a better pic of her *****... LOVE DEM LIPS!!
CLIFFS: There's no "simple & easy" way to reuse your Drum Brake Hubs when swapping to a 92-00 Disc Brake Spindle.
Hope this helps!
JasonGhostz
... HOORAY FOR 0.01%!!!!!
Modified by JasonGhostz at 6:57 PM 7/8/2007
One interesting thing to note is that the Disc Brake Hub/Bearing Assembly only differs from its Drum Brake counterpart due to the fact that the Disc Brake Hubs need threaded holes for the Rotor/Disc Retaining Screws. I am 99.99% sure the Hubs are otherwise identical in dimension and function.
EX Uses: 42200-S04-008
SI Uses: 42200-SR3-A06</TD></TR></TABLE>... WRONG!!!
I just got back from Kragen, and here's what I discovered:
I found that they had this part available in store, a 96-00 Rear Hub for Drum Brakes (I can only *assume* it's the same as for 92-95 Drum Brake Assemblies):
http://www.partsamerica.com/Pr...Set=A
When I got there, I took my Disc Brake Hub & Spindle. When the cutie counter girl came back, I tried to slide the Hub/Bearing Assembly onto the Spindle... NO GO. I measured the Inner Diameter for the Bearing's Inner Race:
http://img86.imageshack.us/img...8.jpg
... looks like 1.100"
The Inner Diameter for the Inner Race for the Disc Brake Hub/Bearing Assembly is about 1.181"...
http://img211.imageshack.us/im...6.jpg
Furthermore, the Drum Brake H/BA is "shorter" than the Disc Brake counterpart...
http://img231.imageshack.us/im...3.jpg
The Drum Brake H/BA is on the Left, the Disc Brake H/BA is on the Right, the Disc Brake Spindle is between them (background), and the nice girl who helped me is in the upper right... I should've gotten a better pic of her *****... LOVE DEM LIPS!!
CLIFFS: There's no "simple & easy" way to reuse your Drum Brake Hubs when swapping to a 92-00 Disc Brake Spindle.
Hope this helps!
JasonGhostz
... HOORAY FOR 0.01%!!!!!
Modified by JasonGhostz at 6:57 PM 7/8/2007
07-26-2007, 06:15 PM
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Spindling my wheels in place...??
OK, thanks to NOFX's help ( https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2048988 ), I started hunting down part numbers for the EM1 Rear Disc Brake Spindle... I feel like I'm getting closer, but there's a chance I cannot get any further than this.
Anyway, I started tinkering around at slhondaparts, and confirmed that the Fit is equipped with Spindles in the rear. Furthermore, they list the INDIVIDUAL PN for it: 52200-SLN-A00
So, using "52" as my base, here's what I found:
52200-692-000 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 79-82 Prelude 2dr 5sp man
52200-S3Y-000 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 00-01 Insight dx man
52200-S3Y-A00 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 01-06 Insight cvt man
52200-SA0-000 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 81 Civic 4dr 5sp
52200-SA0-010 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 81-83 HB 4DR man
52200-SLN-A00 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === Fit
52201-S5A-3000 SPINDLE, RAW FORGING === ???
52210-SB2-000 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 84 civic wagon dx hb 4dr gl; crx dx; ne tran
52211-SB2-000 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 84 civic wagon dx hb 4dr gl; crx dx; ne tran
52210-SB2-010 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 85-87 civic wgn hb 4dr gl; crx 85-87 all
52210-SB2-020 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 85-87 civic wgn hb 4dr gl; crx 85-87 all
52211-SB2-010 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 85-87 civic wgn hb 4dr gl; crx 85-87 all
52211-SB2-020 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 85-87 civic wgn hb 4dr gl; crx 85-87 all
52250-S30-950 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52260-S30-950 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52250-SS0-000 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52250-SS0-980 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52260-SS0-000 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52260-SS0-980 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52202-SE0-000 RING, SPINDLE === ???
ULTRA BIG FROM "KYLE" @ BIG ISLAND HONDA FOR THE HELP!!!
http://www.bigislandhonda.com/
The problem is that most online sites probably don't list unavailable parts, so if there are no more available, I won't be able to find the PN for it. I'm not sure how I should, or even if I should continue my hunt. Anyone got any suggestions?
Thanks!
JasonGhostz
Anyway, I started tinkering around at slhondaparts, and confirmed that the Fit is equipped with Spindles in the rear. Furthermore, they list the INDIVIDUAL PN for it: 52200-SLN-A00
So, using "52" as my base, here's what I found:
52200-692-000 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 79-82 Prelude 2dr 5sp man
52200-S3Y-000 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 00-01 Insight dx man
52200-S3Y-A00 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 01-06 Insight cvt man
52200-SA0-000 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 81 Civic 4dr 5sp
52200-SA0-010 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === 81-83 HB 4DR man
52200-SLN-A00 SPINDLE, RR. WHEEL === Fit
52201-S5A-3000 SPINDLE, RAW FORGING === ???
52210-SB2-000 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 84 civic wagon dx hb 4dr gl; crx dx; ne tran
52211-SB2-000 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 84 civic wagon dx hb 4dr gl; crx dx; ne tran
52210-SB2-010 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 85-87 civic wgn hb 4dr gl; crx 85-87 all
52210-SB2-020 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 85-87 civic wgn hb 4dr gl; crx 85-87 all
52211-SB2-010 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 85-87 civic wgn hb 4dr gl; crx 85-87 all
52211-SB2-020 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 85-87 civic wgn hb 4dr gl; crx 85-87 all
52250-S30-950 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52260-S30-950 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52250-SS0-000 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52250-SS0-980 SPINDLE, R. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52260-SS0-000 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52260-SS0-980 SPINDLE, L. RR. === 97-01 prelude
52202-SE0-000 RING, SPINDLE === ???
ULTRA BIG
FROM "KYLE" @ BIG ISLAND HONDA FOR THE HELP!!!http://www.bigislandhonda.com/
The problem is that most online sites probably don't list unavailable parts, so if there are no more available, I won't be able to find the PN for it. I'm not sure how I should, or even if I should continue my hunt. Anyone got any suggestions?
Thanks!
JasonGhostz
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