Calvinator

EDIT: Passed second time around. Pictures and results on page 2

Basically, I went to the state ref station to get bar'd at alameda community college, CA. My visual inspection was fine, but I failed on the emissions.
Setup is basically a 97 b18c1 into a 93 civic hatchback, stock civic header ,cat and civic piping/muffler, stock gsr airbox. Used seafoam and did an oil change before the test. This was also run on 87 octane.

My hydrocarbons and NO(PPM) were too high. My car seems to run cleaner at higher rpms because my 15mph test was worse than my 25mph. Can anyone tell me whats going on and what I can do to pass?




Modified by xtremeazian at 4:06 PM 12/5/2005

RTI

what ecu are you running?

AnDThEnWuT

i had the same problem with my b16, i changed out 02 sensor, and cat. cut those numbers down low enough to pass. stock cat looked fine visually, but really it was dead. took me 5 tries to finally pass didnt change the cat until the 5th showdown with the ref.

Calvinator

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what ecu are you running?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im running a p72

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AnDThEnWuT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had the same problem with my b16, i changed out 02 sensor, and cat. cut those numbers down low enough to pass. stock cat looked fine visually, but really it was dead. took me 5 tries to finally pass didnt change the cat until the 5th showdown with the ref.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah im going to switch my friends gsr cat, o2, and probably change the spark plugs while im at it. The ref guy said something about i only get 1 free try visit, and after that, if i fail then i have to pay again. Is that what you had to do?

Rev2Eight

I've tried changing plugs and running the engine real hot before going. seems to work

SoCal EJ1

Is your timing all straight? I had to get smogged and failed cuz my timing was off, but they tweaked it a little until i passed.

idk if you need an O2 sensor [but i could be wrong]... i think they get all that data from the exhaust probe. Just get a new cat.

ludeR917

have you tuned it up?

littleredcivic

check timing with a light, use 91 gas, ensure spark plugs are good, check the output voltage of the o2 sensor, clean your injectors, make sure the rest of your ignition system is good...cap, rotor, wires...

worse comes to worse, i hear you can throw a bottle of heet in the tank and it helps...

do your repairs, go to a regular smog station and ask for a "pretest"...make sure you are straight before you go back to the ref.

Soccerking3000

on the way to the ref drive your car on the highway in 4th gear for a little bit, it will heat the cat up and allow it to function better

JeffBro

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on the way to the ref drive your car on the highway in 4th gear for a little bit, it will heat the cat up and allow it to function better</TD></TR></TABLE>

EvilPhu

looks like the car was cold, keep it hot

EvilPhu

lol get some 91 don't b18c1 use 91, ur early post said u used 87.

littleredcivic

when you ref the car, most of the time, the car will sit outside for about 10-30 minutes before they get to it...so preheating the cat is not always possible.

AnDThEnWuT

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xtremeazian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Im running a p72

Yeah im going to switch my friends gsr cat, o2, and probably change the spark plugs while im at it. The ref guy said something about i only get 1 free try visit, and after that, if i fail then i have to pay again. Is that what you had to do?</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you fail the first time, you get to retest the second for free. If you fail the second time then you'll have to pay for the 3rd visit and then if you fail that one, you'll get a free 4th visit and so on.

Calvinator

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoCal EJ1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is your timing all straight? I had to get smogged and failed cuz my timing was off, but they tweaked it a little until i passed.

idk if you need an O2 sensor [but i could be wrong]... i think they get all that data from the exhaust probe. Just get a new cat.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, my timing is at stock 16 deg. and the state ref guy checked my timing and didnt say anything, so I assume my timing is right on.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by littleredcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">check timing with a light, use 91 gas, ensure spark plugs are good, check the output voltage of the o2 sensor, clean your injectors, make sure the rest of your ignition system is good...cap, rotor, wires...

worse comes to worse, i hear you can throw a bottle of heet in the tank and it helps...

do your repairs, go to a regular smog station and ask for a "pretest"...make sure you are straight before you go back to the ref.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was told to use 87 octane because it burn faster. I didnt really like the idea of running 87 through my gsr motor, but i just used it for the smog test. Im going to go ahead and change the cat, o2, plugs, cap and rotor before i go again.
I also have access to my old highschool smog machine so I can pretest. The only problem is that its not the smog machine on the dyno. It just has the sniffer, so I can only do a freerev test. I guess its better than nothing.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on the way to the ref drive your car on the highway in 4th gear for a little bit, it will heat the cat up and allow it to function better</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I got the car pretty hot while driving to alameda. It was like a 40 minute drive in and out of traffic and they did the test about 5-10 after i got there. When I asked the state ref guy if I could let my car idle for a while before the test, he said they werent able to let me do that. He said as long as my car is at optimum operating temperature, it will be fine.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EvilPhu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol get some 91 don't b18c1 use 91, ur early post said u used 87.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea I always use 91, but I filled in 87 for the test because I was told it will help my chances of passing because it burns faster and more complete. Can anyone confirm this? I think im going to just stick with 91.


I have a feeling that my main problem is the cat i was running. It was my friend's civic cat that had like 200k on it, and has been boosted with. haha. Im going to use my friends 2001 gsr cat. Has about 60k on it.

littleredcivic

use the gas that is supposed to go in the car. if you use a gas that has lower octane than required, it could cause knock and the computer will retard and richen...which is what your print out looks like. high HC level is usually unburnt fuel. high NOX is usually from retarded timing. sorry dude, gas might have screwed you. don't go changing everything for no reason. you want to pinpoint the problem and then fix it. get the 87 out and get some 91 in it, if you have a cat that was boosted on, the catalysts may be inefficient and not provide enough cleaning...however, a good running honda can usually pass without a cat. my last LS after it was tuned was cleaner than my stock CX engine without the cat. go and pay $35 for someone to pretest. its worth it because the car has to be loaded to show signs of knock and other drivability related emissions problems.

mx621

87 oct should have helped, oct number represents the resitance to detonation, thus 91/ oct is harder to ignite, requires more spark energy and time to burn off. 87 oct is a lower grade fuel which will ignite easier/faster, and burn more efficiently at low rpms under a light load. even with 87 oct there should be no knock retard at idle, or even a light to mild load. u only need the high octane to support the higher compression, and high revs at high throttle under a hard/full load. if you never drove the car hard u could run low oct in these motors all the time. high oct fuel supports power, it dosnt make it.

damn, CA sucks, here in DE they would pass a wheel barrow if it had headlights

mx621

we only have 87, 89, and 93 oct here in the northeast. no 91 oct.

littleredcivic

the IM 240 test actually provides resistance to the car and loads the engine when at 15 and 25 mph. it also makes you hold the engine speed at a certain range so it basically forces you to choose a gear that will put a decent load on the engine. if the gsr engine could run with 87 properly, their octane requirement would have read...for high performance operation use 91+ octane, regular operation only requires 87...but it doesn't. like the jeep liberty for example says you can use 87 for regular driving, but needs premium for towing or extended high speed driving...

rodrez.

My 4Runner failed recently, with the same problem you had. It was the 02 sensor, changed it, and it passed by far.

CivicSiRX

interesting, u failed at 15, i failed at 25. im runnin a 94 b16a3 with typeR cams, dc header, sp2 catback and aem intake. at first i failed, then the smog guy dyno the car in 4th, pass no problem. my friend retard his timin way bak on his b16 and it pass with fly colors. have u check ur plugs and wires lately?
but yea, the o2 would be a good idea. good luck.

k5

same thing happened to tk-4004. he just had to heat up the catalytic converter. the ref let him come back later in the afternoon, so he drove around for a while (hour or two) and had pass with flying colors. he pretty much had the same readings as yours.

EvilPhu

It really look like u need to warm that car up if u can, or like u say get ur friend cat in there. Looking at 15mph and 25mph reading it's a big difference. Plus do u notice u have TAMPERED on your sheet???

DB1_559

try 93 octane

Calvinator

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSiRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">interesting, u failed at 15, i failed at 25. im runnin a 94 b16a3 with typeR cams, dc header, sp2 catback and aem intake. at first i failed, then the smog guy dyno the car in 4th, pass no problem. my friend retard his timin way bak on his b16 and it pass with fly colors. have u check ur plugs and wires lately?
but yea, the o2 would be a good idea. good luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How much did he retard the timing? I think i might try that.