I Like Hondas

Alright, so I've done a lot of searching and reading on this subject. From what I understand not everyone needs a camber kit to avoid improper tire wear. In some cases you can just set toe to 0. It seems like it depends a lot on the drop. I'm on Ksport coilovers and don't know exactly how many inches I've dropped my car so I'm posting pictures. I would like to go a bit lower in the front now that I have 195 tires. I'm thinking maybe a 1/4 inch lower.

So! My question is this. On this drop, maybe going a 1/4 inch lower in the front, would I need a camber kit to have the tires wear properly. This is my daily. I won't be autocrossing it every weekend or anything. I just want it to handle properly and not trash my new tires. So do you think my set up needs a camber kit?

Also, I was thinking about getting a year of alignments at Tire Kingdom. The price is good and having it for a year is nice too incase I want to change my ride height. I just don't know if I can trust them to do a proper alignment and set the toe to 0?








Any feedback is greatly appreciated. If more details are needed to properly answer the question just let me know and I'll post up.

SOHC_4dr

toe at 0 will reduce wear, but lowering just a 1/4 inch isn't much. i really dont know if you'll notice any diff but it sholdnt do much to your tires, if any. sick *** hatch btw

The_Honda_Guy

It depends on how far you want to lower the car. I've done quite a few alignments in the time I've been working on cars, and more often than not it's toe that causes bad tire wear. Generally if you're a degree or two off on the camber tie wear is not affected too badly at all, whereas if your toe is off you'll see tire wear very quickly. Depending on how far the camber is out it is possibly to shim the car to fix negative camber. If you want the tires to wear correctly though you will need a camber kit, but like I said, it all depends on how far your camber is off. Depending on what you want to do though, a small amount of negative camber is a good thing. If you want to autocross it will help keep the tires planted to the ground. Instead of the tires doing this | |, you'll have this / \ . Negative camber prevents the tires from rolling to the outside.

Do a search and see if you can find the chart that shows the degree change in camber depending on how far you lower the car.

Mrmatt3465

I felt like my coupe didn't need an alignment when I dropped it on some lowering springs. After about 3 months we did a swap in it. As we were taking off the tires we noticed the sides of the tires had TERRIBLE camber. Showing wire all the way around. Just to be safe, I would get a camber kit and get the alignment as soon as you can. I put on my camber kit monday and my steering and handling is terrible. My alignment is tomorrow, its ~$100 for one.

I Like Hondas

Thanks for the input guys. I want to get an alignment tomorrow, but I don't want to do it if I need a camber kit first. So at THIS hight, do you think I'd be ok with no camber kit?

SOHC_4dr

NEED one no. recommended yes. just keep an eye on your tires if you decide on not getting the kit. if you get a hard compound tire or long mileage one you'll go longer without having to keep buying tires. if it was mine i wouldnt get the kit untill i seen how bad it treats my tires.

The_Honda_Guy

How much lower are you than stock? If you're only down like maybe 1-2 inches I probably wouldn't worry much, but anything more than that and you'll want one. When you change camber you also change toe, so even if you don't get a camber kit at least get an alignment done so that they can set the toe.

I Like Hondas

I think I'm probably right at 2 inches lower than stock. the front is 22 1/2" from the ground to the top of the fender and the rear is 22 3/4". I don't know what stock is though.

Also, Tire Kingdom?? Yes or No on alignment from them?

The_Honda_Guy

Never heard of Tire Kingdom. Usually any monkey can do an alignment. They should give you a printout of the before and after specs of the car. That way you know they at least did something. Just try to find a reputable shop locally. I'd suggest trying to find one that has an alignment rack built into the ground. That way when they pull your car onto the rack they don't tear the sideskirts and/or bumpers off the car.

I Like Hondas

Tire Kingdom is a bigger chain in florida. They sell tires do alignments brakes oil changes. all that junk. But they have a deal for like 100 odd bucks you can get alignments for a year. So it sounds good, but since its a big chain im sure they hire a ton of tards. So I guess I'm just like scared to risk letting them mess with my car. But if an alignment is pretty straight forward and they have to print it out I should be fine.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

You shouldn't need a camber kit at that height. Although...if you're doing burn outs or drag racing, buy a camber kit for the front.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Your tires had terrible camber?

Camber is an alignment angle on the suspension. Your toe was probably off. Your toe changes whenever any other angle changes. If you have a bad toe setting, you will get bad tire wear. If you couple camber with toe...you get terrible tire wear.

The_Honda_Guy

Yay, B serious!

Anyways, the free alignments for a year would be nice if you plan on getting a camber kit. That way when you do put it on you can take it back and have them align it, or if you raise or lower the car you can take it back then too.

I Like Hondas

Alright cool. I don't care much about burnouts drag racing, so I'll just go get it aligned today, then get the camber kit if I go a bit lower.

Now, should I just let the alignment place do their thing, or should I tell them specifically to set the toe to 0?

vsmftw98

iTrader: (1)

i say get one to be safe.. i dropped my car 2.5 and didnt realize it.. now i need new tires cus the camber wear is pretty bad... you live and you learn.. but i say yes because its good to be safe. and shouldnt you install the camber kit before you get an alignment? someone correct me if im wrong

B serious

iTrader: (1)

...camber is an alignment angle. You'd have to put on the camber kit before the alignment. Otherwise, it'd be like putting in the eggs after you allready baked the cupcakes.

No matter how many times anyone explains that it's usually toe and not camber that wears your tires out on the inside edge....someone ALWAYS posts "I had bad camber wear". Did you have your car aligned for toe after you dropped it?


I really doubt you had much camber wear from a car dropped 2.5''.

The_Honda_Guy

I can't remember for sure on the Civics, but most cars run 0 toe. There are a few out there that run a slight toe-in for stability, but very few.

SOHC_4dr

at the honda dealer i worked at, we put the toe in at .05(unless the spec is a quite a bit diff). they say that as you go faster the toe goes outward slightly and this was to compensate for it and at .05 you'll never see the wear on your tires.

The_Honda_Guy

Some places do toe differently, but that's a reasonable concept. The tires will start to angle out slightly the faster you go. The only problem with alignment angles is that they're never correct after you take the car off the alignment rack. This is due to loading the vehicle with passengers, groceries, etc. Also, unless the car is aligned with the driver it in it'll never be technically correctly. Just a nice thought.

SOHC_4dr

a quick story about that, we did an alignment on a car 4 times in two weeks! it was dead on everytime and had new tires and good suspension. he kept complaining that his car kept pulling. this guy was kinda tiny and one time he came in with his wife and she was HUGE! lol so we made adjustments to the alignment to compensate for his wifes girth and he didn't come back since lol

en00be

clean hatch man
funny thing is i have teh same prob haha
and i have the i <3 my honda sticker the same place u do lol

91blackEF

yea when i looked at your pics in the first pic your rear looks off but in the second pic your front looks off you need a stright head on pic to really tell though

B serious

iTrader: (1)

My EM1 is spec'd at slight rear toe IN. I think it was .08degrees. I set it closer to 0. I did my own alignment at a friend's shop...but forgot to print anything out. I remember something like .05 degrees IN. I like the car to rotate. With the 22mm ITR bar...it should rotate decently. I want to get some daily driver track time in for the upcoming spring/summer.

My AP1 is spec'd at 6mm total rear toe in!!!!!!!! I use all my own alignment specs on that car as well. I use around 5mm total toe in for a slight oversteer alignment. If I do the calculations [-sin(5/533.8)], that's around .54 degrees of total toe in (.27 degrees per side). That's a lot.

I Like Hondas

B serious, Honda Guy and SOHC 4dr Thank you for all your help! I went to tire kingdom today and met a really cool guy thats going to align it tomorrow. (he was booked today) But he right away was talking about how toe affected tire wear more. He seemed pretty legit.

Anyway, thanks again. I'll let you know how it turns out tomorrow.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude...if only I could sig quote that entire thing....