Distributor Nightmares and Idle Insanity! Expert advice needed, :) FREE PRIZE for whoever solves my
10-17-2004, 09:17 AM
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Distributor Nightmares and Idle Insanity! Expert advice needed, FREE PRIZE for whoever solves this!
Cliff notes:
Not getting spark now, distributor keeps taking a dump, gone through two igniters but they failed in different ways (see full description). Kragen rebuilt parts used. Please help me. Oh and a lots of answers and important stuff is in the short book below you. Please read it! Please don’t ask questions whose answers are in the post!
Okay so here is what's going in MAX detail!
I got the car all back together after blowing my block (melted piston #1). The old block was a 1992 production model, USDM, and OBD1. The new block I put in is a 91, JDM and OBD0.
I swapped all the necessary connectors to make my OBD1 wiring harness (from my d15b7). Also I swapped the complete thermostat for the OBD1 unit (the one on the motor didn't have the plug for the temp (?) sensor. The JDM block has an extra temp sensor (on the back of the block) that is just sitting there… no plug from the OBD1 harness goes there because the OBD1 motor has that plug in the thermostat
Okay so I get everything back together, this is where my nightmare starts. Problems in the order I encountered them below:
1. First time I connect the battery I have an instant short. I realized that it was the power cable on the starter touching the block… So I fixed that, and next:
2. Try and start, sounds totally wrong (turning way to easy). DUH the spark plugs were only hand tight! Next….
3. Okay, now everything is right, jump in the car to start it. Cranks and cranks but no start doesn’t even *kinda* want to start. So I start checking ****.
4. After checking all fuses and just about everything I did, I decided to check the mechanical timing. Still dead on. Checked to see if my DSM 450’s were firing, they were working great. THEN I check the spark. NO SPARK. Damn.
5. I replaced the Distributor with the only unit I could get ASAP (10 minutes y0!). Rebuild Kragen CRAP. I also got a new cap and rotor for it, some non Honda JUNK. Throw the new unit in and bam, the car starts right up. Idle is all weird though, bouncing from ~1000rpms -1350rpms up and down, very consistent but definitely screwy.
6. After letting the car run for about 30 sec I turned it off (figuring that now all I have to do is fix the idle yay! WRONG). The next time I started the car I it ran for about 5 minutes or so while I was trying to figure out the idle issue. I unplugged the IACV and the idle of course went way down but it was smooth. But when I opened the throttle to get in the 1000-1350rpm area… it bounces. Weird huh… So then I pull the TPS sensor (with the IACV plugged in) and the idle drops to like 300 rpms again nice and smooth down there. As soon as I touch the gas (to see if the issue was still there at 1000-1350rpms) the car just dies. Okay, so I plug it back in and the car doesn’t start. WTF? Checked everything, reset the ECU, still nothing so I check for spark again, NO SPARK.
7. I took the cap and rotor back to Kragen and got warranty replacement parts, didn’t get to put them on till 2-3 hours later. When I did, the car started right up fine. So now that it’s “fixed” I start looking for vacuum leaks and stuff around the intake manifold (used old gasket that looked fine, but I did coat it with Loctite brand “Gasket eliminator”, I’ve had a lot of luck with that stuff before. I tired to be careful and not let any get in the IM or anything but I guess a little tiny bit could have seeped in to the runners when I tightened the manifold down to a little over torque speck (spec is like 17ft-lbs? I probably got close to 30 but tightened them in the correct way. Anyways… the car died at after about 5 minutes (read: warmed up) and would not start again, no spark.
8. I come in the next day to my shop; changed nothing on the distributor from when it died before, and the car starts RIGHT up. As far as my research (and experience now) tells me a failed or failing Igniter will sometimes only work when the unit is cold, and then die when it warms up. The car died after about 5 min wouldn’t start again. 3-4 hours later (totally cold) I tired starting it again… nothing NO SPARK. Took apart the Distributor and put it back together NO SPARK. Took it off again and tested the Igniter via factory manual procedure with a Multimeter. Everything seemed okay till I check the resistance between the + and - terminal on the igniter. Spec is .6-.8 ohms. I was reading lowest of .9 but the reading were inconsistent… most readings I got where in the 1.1-1.4ohm area.
9. So I figured defective igniter. I replaced the igniter with other rebuilt POS from kragen and the car started right up and ran great for about a total of 45minutes on and off like 8 times. For some reason when the car reached operating temp I heard a not so loud “pop” kinda noise (the IACV stopped sticking) and the idle was now not bouncy but low (~600rpms or less with the idle screw all the way open) cause the IACV failed or is just not working right because now I have a CEL for the IACV. Anyways I drive the car around in circles outside my shop for ten minutes and everything is great. I go about a ½mile away to the nearest gas station and shut the car off to fill it up. Then when I go to start the car (lets say the ninth time) it coughs like it wants to start and *almost* does a few times. Then while I drained the last 50% of my battery trying to start it, it wouldn’t even cough or anything, just turnover. Anyways I get the car back to the shop and check for spark nothing, timing is still good and fuel is there. Just NO SPARK. AGAIN!
10. I took off the Distributor and did the same tests, resistance .9-1.4ohms this time... igniter must be shot.
Okay (whew!)
Theories and questions:
SO, what’s your idea on my problem? So it’s another defective igniter just defective in a “different way”? OR, is it my car that’s frying them now for some reason? If so how can I check to make sure the signals are all good to the distributor?
What’s going on?
My plan for tomorrow: New or used completely OEM distributor.
Note: Why did my previously working Distributor not give spark? My theory is as follows:
When I blew the motor last week it was still kinda running, 3 cylinders for sure and I pulled the plugs immediately to check for damage or anything. Cylinder one was full of oil and had no compression. So I started the car (running like **** smoking like crazy) and with the car running I pulled the plug wire at the distributor to just see what happened. Of course it ran the same, so I go to plug the plug back in, with the car still running and I see it arc from the plug to the distributor 2-3 times then the motor completely died and would not start at all (Didn’t bother checking but willing to bet it had NO SPARK)
--SORRY for the uber-long post. But I figured I’d get every little thing out there. Again, Please don’t ask questions whose answers are in the post.
Thanks; I hope you guys can offer me some advice/help/anything. If you think you know the answer you’re even welcome to call me at 650-759-4670.
-Tyler
P.S. I hate my car right now! But about that PRIZE! If someone here figures out my problems (with the distributor and the IACV) you will get a car related super cool prize that you can use! Sub $15 retail value yes, but it’s a cool prize cause you need it. NO I won’t tell you what it is!
Not getting spark now, distributor keeps taking a dump, gone through two igniters but they failed in different ways (see full description). Kragen rebuilt parts used. Please help me. Oh and a lots of answers and important stuff is in the short book below you. Please read it! Please don’t ask questions whose answers are in the post!
Okay so here is what's going in MAX detail!
I got the car all back together after blowing my block (melted piston #1). The old block was a 1992 production model, USDM, and OBD1. The new block I put in is a 91, JDM and OBD0.
I swapped all the necessary connectors to make my OBD1 wiring harness (from my d15b7). Also I swapped the complete thermostat for the OBD1 unit (the one on the motor didn't have the plug for the temp (?) sensor. The JDM block has an extra temp sensor (on the back of the block) that is just sitting there… no plug from the OBD1 harness goes there because the OBD1 motor has that plug in the thermostat
Okay so I get everything back together, this is where my nightmare starts. Problems in the order I encountered them below:
1. First time I connect the battery I have an instant short. I realized that it was the power cable on the starter touching the block… So I fixed that, and next:
2. Try and start, sounds totally wrong (turning way to easy). DUH the spark plugs were only hand tight! Next….
3. Okay, now everything is right, jump in the car to start it. Cranks and cranks but no start doesn’t even *kinda* want to start. So I start checking ****.
4. After checking all fuses and just about everything I did, I decided to check the mechanical timing. Still dead on. Checked to see if my DSM 450’s were firing, they were working great. THEN I check the spark. NO SPARK. Damn.
5. I replaced the Distributor with the only unit I could get ASAP (10 minutes y0!). Rebuild Kragen CRAP. I also got a new cap and rotor for it, some non Honda JUNK. Throw the new unit in and bam, the car starts right up. Idle is all weird though, bouncing from ~1000rpms -1350rpms up and down, very consistent but definitely screwy.
6. After letting the car run for about 30 sec I turned it off (figuring that now all I have to do is fix the idle yay! WRONG). The next time I started the car I it ran for about 5 minutes or so while I was trying to figure out the idle issue. I unplugged the IACV and the idle of course went way down but it was smooth. But when I opened the throttle to get in the 1000-1350rpm area… it bounces. Weird huh… So then I pull the TPS sensor (with the IACV plugged in) and the idle drops to like 300 rpms again nice and smooth down there. As soon as I touch the gas (to see if the issue was still there at 1000-1350rpms) the car just dies. Okay, so I plug it back in and the car doesn’t start. WTF? Checked everything, reset the ECU, still nothing so I check for spark again, NO SPARK.
7. I took the cap and rotor back to Kragen and got warranty replacement parts, didn’t get to put them on till 2-3 hours later. When I did, the car started right up fine. So now that it’s “fixed” I start looking for vacuum leaks and stuff around the intake manifold (used old gasket that looked fine, but I did coat it with Loctite brand “Gasket eliminator”, I’ve had a lot of luck with that stuff before. I tired to be careful and not let any get in the IM or anything but I guess a little tiny bit could have seeped in to the runners when I tightened the manifold down to a little over torque speck (spec is like 17ft-lbs? I probably got close to 30 but tightened them in the correct way. Anyways… the car died at after about 5 minutes (read: warmed up) and would not start again, no spark.
8. I come in the next day to my shop; changed nothing on the distributor from when it died before, and the car starts RIGHT up. As far as my research (and experience now) tells me a failed or failing Igniter will sometimes only work when the unit is cold, and then die when it warms up. The car died after about 5 min wouldn’t start again. 3-4 hours later (totally cold) I tired starting it again… nothing NO SPARK. Took apart the Distributor and put it back together NO SPARK. Took it off again and tested the Igniter via factory manual procedure with a Multimeter. Everything seemed okay till I check the resistance between the + and - terminal on the igniter. Spec is .6-.8 ohms. I was reading lowest of .9 but the reading were inconsistent… most readings I got where in the 1.1-1.4ohm area.
9. So I figured defective igniter. I replaced the igniter with other rebuilt POS from kragen and the car started right up and ran great for about a total of 45minutes on and off like 8 times. For some reason when the car reached operating temp I heard a not so loud “pop” kinda noise (the IACV stopped sticking) and the idle was now not bouncy but low (~600rpms or less with the idle screw all the way open) cause the IACV failed or is just not working right because now I have a CEL for the IACV. Anyways I drive the car around in circles outside my shop for ten minutes and everything is great. I go about a ½mile away to the nearest gas station and shut the car off to fill it up. Then when I go to start the car (lets say the ninth time) it coughs like it wants to start and *almost* does a few times. Then while I drained the last 50% of my battery trying to start it, it wouldn’t even cough or anything, just turnover. Anyways I get the car back to the shop and check for spark nothing, timing is still good and fuel is there. Just NO SPARK. AGAIN!
10. I took off the Distributor and did the same tests, resistance .9-1.4ohms this time... igniter must be shot.
Okay (whew!)
Theories and questions:
SO, what’s your idea on my problem? So it’s another defective igniter just defective in a “different way”? OR, is it my car that’s frying them now for some reason? If so how can I check to make sure the signals are all good to the distributor?
What’s going on?
My plan for tomorrow: New or used completely OEM distributor.
Note: Why did my previously working Distributor not give spark? My theory is as follows:
When I blew the motor last week it was still kinda running, 3 cylinders for sure and I pulled the plugs immediately to check for damage or anything. Cylinder one was full of oil and had no compression. So I started the car (running like **** smoking like crazy) and with the car running I pulled the plug wire at the distributor to just see what happened. Of course it ran the same, so I go to plug the plug back in, with the car still running and I see it arc from the plug to the distributor 2-3 times then the motor completely died and would not start at all (Didn’t bother checking but willing to bet it had NO SPARK)
--SORRY for the uber-long post. But I figured I’d get every little thing out there. Again, Please don’t ask questions whose answers are in the post.
Thanks; I hope you guys can offer me some advice/help/anything. If you think you know the answer you’re even welcome to call me at 650-759-4670.
-Tyler
P.S. I hate my car right now! But about that PRIZE! If someone here figures out my problems (with the distributor and the IACV) you will get a car related super cool prize that you can use! Sub $15 retail value yes, but it’s a cool prize cause you need it. NO I won’t tell you what it is!
10-17-2004, 09:33 AM
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dAng!
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Re: Distributor Nightmares and Idle Insanity! Expert advice needed, FREE PRIZE for whoever solves th
Had a similar problem with my brother's integra gsr. Stock ignition setup. We changed out the coil for a Bosch external unit and mated it with an MSD ignition. Never had the problem again.
10-17-2004, 10:07 AM
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Re: Distributor Nightmares and Idle Insanity! Expert advice needed, FREE PRIZE for whoever solves th
Sounds like your fast Ilde thermo valve needs to be replaced, but to make sure that is the problem, pul it off. It's a piece that bolts on the bottom of your throttle body with 2 bolts-- there is coolant involved, but as long as you don't mind spilling a tad of coolant on the ground. once you get it off, there's a metal plate w/ 2 philips head screws holding it on, loosen 1, then spin the plate away from the opening. There's a white plastic piece on the inside with a slot running down the middle. You want to tighten that piece like a screw until it stops. If it's loose, that's your problem, but tightening is only a temporary fix-- best way to fix it is get a new FIT valve.
10-17-2004, 10:12 AM
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Re: Distributor Nightmares and Idle Insanity! Expert advice needed, FREE PRIZE for whoever solves th
uh no, fast idle is a common problem with idling that not too many people know about, but i highly doubt its his problem in this case. but u could check that plastic plunger real quick just incase, it only takes 10 minutes
10-17-2004, 11:31 AM
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sounds stupid, but check the plug where the distributor's wiring harness plugs into the engine's harness. Damn I wish I had pics. This was the problem on my Lude. I had little pieces of plastic down inside there and it wasn't making good contact. I yanked the whole thing appart and there was arcing between some of the pins. And it did something similar to yours. It'd run for about 20 minutes and then just die. Middle of the highway. Then I had to wait about 5 minutes for it to cool back down, ran another 5 minutes then died. I think the arcing killed my ignitor. But hell if I know. I sold the car. 
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10-20-2004, 09:09 AM
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Re: Distributor Nightmares and Idle Insanity! Expert advice needed, FREE PRIZE for whoever solves th
******* ****
after maybe 2 hours driving time the ignition dies again!
i'm on the freeway and it starts cutting in and out, then the tach drops and it's just dead. Had to get it towed, again.
The light on the MSD unit is solid indicating everything is okay, but there is not spark.
What do i replace now? i'm running out of money!
I'm thinking about replacing the distributor core with an MSD or OEM unit. This rebuilt **** is the only thing left in the ignition system that I question....
BUT what else could be causing this? random ignition components failing over and over again?
Replace wiring harness?
after maybe 2 hours driving time the ignition dies again!
i'm on the freeway and it starts cutting in and out, then the tach drops and it's just dead. Had to get it towed, again.
The light on the MSD unit is solid indicating everything is okay, but there is not spark.
What do i replace now? i'm running out of money!
I'm thinking about replacing the distributor core with an MSD or OEM unit. This rebuilt **** is the only thing left in the ignition system that I question....
BUT what else could be causing this? random ignition components failing over and over again?
Replace wiring harness?
10-22-2004, 09:14 AM
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Re: Distributor Nightmares and Idle Insanity! Expert advice needed, FREE PRIZE for whoever solves th
WELLL
150miles no problems so far with a complete, brand new OEM distributor.
LESION:
DON'T BUY STUPID KRAGEN, REBUILD, AUTOZONE, GENERIC CRAP.
OEM
150miles no problems so far with a complete, brand new OEM distributor.
LESION:
DON'T BUY STUPID KRAGEN, REBUILD, AUTOZONE, GENERIC CRAP.
OEM
10-22-2004, 09:42 AM
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Re: Distributor Nightmares and Idle Insanity! Expert advice needed, FREE PRIZE for whoever solves th
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sketch_hs »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WELLL
150miles no problems so far with a complete, brand new OEM distributor.
LESION:
DON'T BUY STUPID KRAGEN, REBUILD, AUTOZONE, GENERIC CRAP.
OEM </TD></TR></TABLE>
i've heard from an independant honda service shop that non-oem dizzys are CRAP and tend to fail a lot. the bearings often go too, and fill f'up ur timing, or even cause ur timing belt to break (didnt really believe the last one).
150miles no problems so far with a complete, brand new OEM distributor.
LESION:
DON'T BUY STUPID KRAGEN, REBUILD, AUTOZONE, GENERIC CRAP.
OEM </TD></TR></TABLE>i've heard from an independant honda service shop that non-oem dizzys are CRAP and tend to fail a lot. the bearings often go too, and fill f'up ur timing, or even cause ur timing belt to break (didnt really believe the last one).
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