There are really not that much different. The chassis is the same, but the interior of the del sol is totally different, and actually alot sportier than civics, the seats are very very comfortable, you get power windows, power rear window!

but no power locks, also power antenna, and a removable T-top, and a big trunk too.

Only the Si model Del Sol's came with rear disk, the Del sol S came with rear drums

and cheaper seats

D15 engine, no trunk light, no alloy wheels. But it's not too practical of a car though. Since it's only a 2 seater.

that confuses me now bout the weight your talking about because i have a dx coupe and my freind has the del sol sohc vtec if its lighter and we both drive basically the same then how are my times the same as his???? and he has I/H/E and all i ran with was with I/E(BTW it was a slow 16.3)

The Del Sol wasn't a bad car. It was Honda's answer to the Mazda Miata. The battle was just starting to heat up when the BMW Z3 appeared on the scene and kicked both their asses. Honda caved. That's the long 'n' short of it...

ROAD & TRACK - JANUARY 1994

Honda Civic del Sol & Maza MX-5 Miata

Donnis Simanaitis & Kim Reynolds

Simanaitis: As Engineering Editor, I taught Kin Reynolds everything I knew
about road testing. And, as Road Test Editor, he's learned even more on his
own. But every so often the kid exhibits some weird views on cars, despite
be best avuncular efforts.

Take this Civic del Sol. As Henry Youngman would say: Please. Honda puts
some fancy-schmancy VTEC sticker on the tail, and Reynolds comes away
claiming that it's better than the MX-5 Miata. Even the improved Miata,
with the 1.8-liter engine, 10 percent more in the bhp and torque
departments and other good stuff.

I mean , really now.

Reynolds: Really, indeed. With all due respect, Dennis, have I once heard
you mention the del Sol without your raising one or the other eyebrow
(sometimes both) and blossoming a thoroughly ingenious smile? "What a nice
little car," you sarcastically pronounce.

Why this attitude problem? Personally, I'm quite fond of the Miata, but I
happen to feel that the new del Sol VTEC is 1) a credible twisty-road
alternative and 2) rich with so many practical features that your hostility
toward it utterly escapes me.

Simanaitis: I'm not hostile to this nice little car, Kim; indifferent,
maybe, to its sporting pretentions, but not hostile.

Reynolds: Look, if I can appreciate the 1.8-liter Miata's improvements,
particularly its additional 12 bhp, why can't you give the del Sol an equal
break? With the new VTEC version, Honda has added 35 bhp, variable valve
timing on both intake and exhaust cams (remember how VTEC wowed us on the
Acura NSX four years ago?), shorter gears, a firmer suspension, wider
tires, bigger front brakes - and hurried up the previously slow-motion
steering ratio. Methodically, Honda's eliminated the del Sol's every
weakness, but still you seem to smell a sports-car pretender.

Right then. Let's head south and settle this thing up the twisty roads
toward a favorite place of mine, the summit of Mt. Palomar. Maybe the
proximity of the giant Hale telescope will osmose some useful automotive
introspection into your otherwise stolid, er, solid judgment.

Simanaitis: Yes, a good idea. In fact, let me introduce right here about
the genuine sports-car nature of the Miata.

What is a sports car? As I wrote in our January 1993 "Sports Car" feature,
it's a car which I can wear my neat string-back driving gloves without
feeling foolish at the wheel.

I wear those gloves in the Miata; I don't wear them in the del Sol.
What's more, to quote again from that article, "the fact is, the Miata is
the best sports car you can buy in 1993, and that's that."

And who do you suppose composed this deathless prose? Hmm? It appears to be
written by my esteemed co-author.

Your turn, Reynolds.

Reynolds: The driving gloves again. To Dennis, a sports car is a Morgan
(which he owns) or even more potentially decay-prone crocks (about which he
constantly muses).

You know Dennis, I regularly side with Morgans. Similarily, I thoroughly
enjoy watching Fawlty Towers and Monty Python on television. But driving a
cold, cramped, primitive automobile while playing rope-a-dope with wind
buffeting and Russian roulette with melanoma is fun because it's a crazy
thing to do. Not because I'm a crazy person.

As to my earlier pronoucements about the Miata, I'll go you one more: The
Miata is the best sports car you can buy in 1994 as well. So why does this
disqualify me from preferring the little Honda. Guilt by open-mindedness?
Arrest me.

Simanaitis: What's arresting to my eyes is the Miata's styling. It simply
doesn't have a bad angle. And I admit the del Sol looks okay from the
direct front or rear. But from front or rear three quarters, it's a regular
gyoza (a Japanese dumpling to you, kid).

Reynolds: To the charge of uneven styling, I plead nolo contendre. Without
a doubt, the Miata's is a vastly superior shape and possesses an innocent
purity that makes me feel quite the opposite. Miata, take your little pity
bow.

By comparison, the del Sol sort of grows on you. Recently while driving it,
I rolled to a stop next to an old Porsche 914, and instantaneously its
driver and I recognized our cars' similarity. For my part, at least, I
wasn't the least bit uncomfortable. So history (even at the level of
odd-duck car styling) learns absolutely nothing from itself; I say recycled
peculiarity has it all over original blandness.

On the flip side, the del Sol's looks improve considerably when viewed from
the inside out. Not only is the cabin sportily styled, but it's also wide
enough for elbows-out cornering and long enough to stretch your legs on the
Interstate.

The Miata cramps everything but my style.

Simanaitis: Yes, yes. I agree, the Miata's cockpit isn't overly large. But
then again I am, and I fit just fine, thank you. This latest Miata gets
elasticized map pockets just aft of its abbreviated door pulls; another new
feature is its passenger airbag, more subtly integrated than the del Sol's,
I might add.

Oh, I'll grant that the del Sol is a pleasant enough place to be in for a
leisure drive. You can enjoy the stereo, regardless of road speed. There's
standard-equipment cruise control. And even a little cubby for stowing
string-back gloves where they're not needed.

Get the drift of my meaning, Kim?

Reynolds: You're snapping at the old bait that sensible human conveniences
imply a sub-enthusiast driving experience. If you like, you can lower the
del Sol's stereo so it's hard to hear. Or hand your head out the window, so
instead of being pleasantly caressed by the breeze, you're drumming your
brain in a more familiar fashion.

I for one appreciate the del Sol's craftily managed cockpit airflow.
Likewise, its loads of other little touches; for instance, a cover to hide
the stereo/cassette from wayward eyes or unexpected moisture. And heater
vents next to your thighs for crisp night driving.

Simanaitis: It's been said that old age and treachery will always overcome
youth and exuberance. Thus, Gentle Readers and Fellow Enthusiasts (you all
know who you are), I'll let you in on a little trick I played on Reynolds.
I figured he was going to hassle me about the Miata's puny little trunk, so
I prepared.

We have our own personal Miata at home, and over time, we've identified the
precise combination of luggage that exploits just about all of its trunk
space. There's room left over for a pack of cigs, maybe; but not a carton.
Anyway, unbeknownst to Kim, I secreted these four (4?! Count 'em! 4!) bags
into our test Miata before our drive.

But I'll let him tell you the rest.

Reynolds: Dennis is a clever, nay, a sneaky man. I pop open the Miata's
trunk with an anticipatory chuckle to find, well, a respectable assortment
of bags. They're soft, of course, and mapped into the Miata's stern with an
effort undoubtedly of great interest to psychologists, but there you are.

And, dumpling-like though it may be, the del Sol's trunk can haul about a
third more pairs of old driving gloves to the Goodwill than the Miata's,
which means Dennis' Ph.D. in mathematics isn't necessary to pack for a
simple weekend trip. Stow the removable roof panel, and even still, the del
Sol can cart an extra grocery bag home without its winding up on your
passenger's lap.

Which brings me to a little demonstration of my own; disproving the
impression that the del Sol's roof is a job to drop. I'll grant that the
Miata's classic folding top is easier to manipulate - given a strong right
arm - without leaving the driver's seat (though I'll hasten to add that the
1994 model's structural crossmember behind the seat trends to get in the
way). Let's just let my stopwatch judge how troublesome the del Sol's roof
panel really is.

First, I timed Dennis. Deftly he lowered the Miata's lid (no cheating; the
rear window had to be unzipped too) in 12.6 seconds. Putting it back up
required about twice that time, 26.4 seconds. Very good.

But with Dennis timing me in the del Sol, I dropped his jaw by removing the
23-lb. Aluminum lid, locking it into the trunk, dropping the electrically
operated rear window and settling back in the driver's seat with a grin in
just over 37 seconds. Reversing the procedure recorded almost exactly the
same time. To be honest, I don't much care for how Honda makes you lean
awkwardly over the cockpit to pull the panel off or replace it, but I think
I've make my point.

Simanaitis: So there we were: two perfectly rational adults parked at the
side of the road, each working hard as hell to get the top up and down as
quickly as possible, yet each trying his damnedest to appear nonchalant
about the whole thing. My right arm ached for a week.

Reynolds: If the del sol's lockable hard roof takes 20-some additional
seconds to operate, it likewise offers three big benefits: It's quieter,
it's worlds warmer in cold weather, and I can personally attest that it's
an edge in deterring thieves. (A few days ago I parked the del Sol next to
a friend's Mustang Convertible in a remote parking area; when we returned,
we found the Mustang's top sliced open and his briefcase stolen. The del
Sol, two feet away, was covered with fingerprints, but "untouched.")

Simanaitis: Well, if you (or your neighbors) feel that way, you can always
opt for the Miata's detachable hardtop. I must admit, though, it doesn't
store as neatly as the del Sol's. In fact, it doesn't store at all, except
in one's garage.

It's in the suspension that the Miata really shines. New for 1994 are four
chassis stiffeners, the sort of reinforcing bits you regularly see on a
production race car, the most evident being the one Kim complained about, a
rod between the seatbelt towers directly behind the seats. Also, the 1994
optional alloy wheels are wider, with a more open pattern that saves nearly
20 percent in weight. Last, brake rotor diameters are increased, and the
vented front rotors are thicker as well.

All this only emphasizes what I've known since my first Miata drive, way
back in the summer of 1988: This car has a well-nigh perfect combination of
responsiveness, predictability, grip and balance. What's more, these
sporting attributes are readily accessible to those of us with less than
Prostian skill levels practiced at less than Senna-esque velocities.

With this in mind, I really looked forward to our brisk dash up Mt.
Palomar. Also, I was confident that once Kim got around to track-testing
this pair, he'd find out just which one was the handler.

Reynolds: Leading Dennis up the Palomar grade, I let the first fast
switchback define the Miata's and del Sol's handling differences for the
rest of the day. Diving into the corner, the Honda erupted in understeer,
but also gripped with a determination that surprised even me, frankly. Open
and close the throttle, and the del Sol adjusts its nose-out attitude in
precise accord.

At the same speed, the lesser del Sol S would be listing badly and cooking
its tires off the belts. But the Si and VTEC placidly grips, rounding the
corner fast enough to press my rib cage squarely into the seat's side
bolsters. The Honda and I have matters under control.

Accelerating away, I glance back at Dennis and notice that his determined
face is now smaller in my mirror and that the Miata is skewing around. I
believe I can make out driving gloves - three of them, it seems - darting
across the Miata's steering wheel. How amusing. I adjust my radio's volume.

Simanaitis: But what's going on here?! I'm the one in the rear-wheel-drive
sports car. I'm even wearing the string-back gloves. And that pesky little
sports coupe is pulling away from me, seemingly at will, all the way up the
mountain.

Reynolds: With a 32-bhp horsepower advantage, the del Sol can post 60 mph a
full second before the Miata, entirely evident as Dennis and I climb toward
the mountain's telescope. Every few seconds, the gap between us widens by a
yard. Del Slow, my foot, I snicker.

Though in fairness, this driving does play to the Honda's edge in revs
(8200 to 7000 rpm) as opposed to the Miata's peppier torque off the line.
Examination of our fifth-wheel's data reveals that the Miata can stay ahead
up to about 200 feet.

Simanaitis: The Miata's original 1598-cc 4-cylinder was fine before: twin
overhead camshafts, four valves per cylinder, plenty of revs. And an
exhaust note that made working your way through the car's super-short shift
throws an auditory as well as a tactile delight. All these properties recur
in this new 1839-cc powerplant; new to the Miata, hitherto the Mazda
Protege's optional hot engine.

I can't say in truth that I could feel the added power, because there's
added weight as well, what with enhanced side intrusion protection and the
like. But Kim's test equipment doesn't read press kits, and, thus, I trust
it implicitly. And, as Kim acknowledges, the Miata beats the del Sol in any
stoplight drag that, as we all know ends well before the next intersection.

Reynolds: The Mazda has now almost disappeared from the del Sol's rearview
mirror as the VTEC engine shrieks again and again against the rev limiter.
Clearly the upgraded del Sol is quicker; now even Dennis can't argue that
it's a respectable performance car in addition to a practical one.

But I start wondering if maybe he's given up back there. I picture him
romping through those corners, cold but smiling, feeling the Mazda nimbly
twist into and drift out of each turn. It rorty little engine's note is
filling his ears. I'm sure his radio isn't on like mine is.

I wonder if when we get to the top he will be willing to trade keys?

Simanaitis: But, Lordy, didn't that del Sol acquit itself nicely up the Mt.
Palomar grade? Maybe Kim'll swap keys on the way down. If so, I'll have to
remember to bring my string-backs along with the Mantovalli cassettes.

BDC...It would seem that the del Sol was "going out" by 1995, quite a bit before the Z3 ever came... the del Sol was pulled in 1997... Consider that the del Sol VTEC regularly ran 7.0 to 7.5 in mag reviews, it stands up well to the 1.9L BMW. Now the higher performance Z3's are a different kettle of fish... that's when Honda blew them away with the S2000...

BDC... Are you sure about the release date of the Z3??? Goldeneye was released November 17, 1995, and the car was only available by preorder with a long waiting list. I just want to make sure we have the correct facts......I'm not flaming or anything...

SOURCE: http://www.bmwusfactory.com/media_ce...ng/history.asp

Factory Chronology
September 20, 1995 First Z3 roadster came off assembly line...

SOURCE: http://www.carenthusiast.com/news0910/bond_3.htm

On January 22, 1995, the cooperation of BMW was officially announced at a press conference held for the start of the filming for GoldenEye in the English studios in Leavesden – which, by the way, used to be Rolls Royce buildings. Forty television stations from all over the world and approximately 500 journalists were present. A large, brown shipping container with a white & blue BMW emblem, which stood between an Aston Martin DB 5 with silver metallic paint and a yellow Ferrari 355 GTS, revealed the fact that the Z3 roadster from BMW would see action, but did not reveal the car’s appearance, which at that time was still top secret.

The car was kept in utter secrecy. Not a photograph became published, not even from the filming sessions that were done in public.

For the filming, BMW provided two handmade pre-production models. Additionally, there were transportation costs and accompany guards, so that no photographs would get into the hands of the press prior to the official premiere of the films and the car. The filming was done in Pinewood Studios in London and in Puerto Rico, which doubled for Cuba.

On November 13, 1995, the day of the international premiere of GoldenEye in Radio City Music Hall in New York, the Z3 roadster was presented to the press in Central Park by Q actor Desmond Llewelyn and by the star, Pierce Brosnan. That evening, twenty Z3s were available near the theater for curious eyes to examine. The car became a big success right away. There were also prominent people from the film industry among the customers, such as Alec Baldwin, who bought one for his wife, Kim Basinger; Madonna, who even bought two for good friends; and Steven Spielberg – he gave one of these white & blue cars to his 75-year old mother.

...if the Miata is an "imitation" why was it the first?...

Accept no expensive imitations.

http://www.miata.net

SOURCE: http://www.miata.net/news/editions.html

Coupe in the Miata's Future?

Back in the mid '90s, the M Coupe concept car was built by Mazda to show what the NA might look like without a drop-top. It never materialized into a production vehicle. Presumably, Mazda marketing gurus came to the conclusion at the time that it wouldn't sell [No guts/No glory - BDC].

Perhaps they're revisiting that thought [now that BMW is marketing one successfully - BDC]. Earlier this year, a concept RS Coupe was shown in Tokyo. We didn't give it much thought at the time. Road and Track offered their opinion, and now we're thinking maybe this is a harbinger of things to come [getting our asses kicked again - BDC].

These photos of another Miata coupe came to us via our friends in Holland. If you can get past the copper colored wheels, the design is pretty sexy. After 13 years of Miata roadsters, maybe the time has finally come for a completely new concept.

We'd like to think so. [Yeah, no **** - like quit making cheap knock-offs - BDC]

The Del Sol wasn't a bad car. It was Honda's answer to the Mazda Miata. The battle was just starting to heat up when the BMW Z3 appeared on the scene and kicked both their asses. Honda caved. That's the long 'n' short of it...