Nave43

I have looked high and low for information on this. Here on Honda tech, team so cal, and super Honda and found no info besides this.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-type-r-8/aftermarket-suspension-stock-near-stock-ride-height-844632/

I am trying to completely rebuild the suspension on a 93 Honda Del sol Si while maintaining its current height. I live in Pennsylvania and lowering is nowhere near an option on our roads. I know stock strings and struts are an option but trying to get something better. I have also heard the Koni yellow/ Gc combo is only a slight difference but its still lowers ride height not to mention slightly out of my price range. I plan on installing an h brace also so i need all the clearance i can get with our 4 inch deep potholes.

So any information on what route to take would be much appreciated. After a week of searching online this is my last resort. Thanks in advance

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Koni/GC is about $800. It lowers the car 0.5" at its highest height....with standard springs.

If $800 is outside your budget, and you don't want to lower the car.....stock springs are your only options.

HH&R OE sport springs lower the car around .5 to .75. Any aftermarket spring will lower the car.

Define "upgrade". Define "budget".

More info usually means better answers.

Nave43

Thanks for the quick response,and i am more than willing to provide any information that you think will help. As for upgrade, i am not looking for much. The stock struts, springs and bushing all seam destroyed. Lots of bounce and it makes a hard thud every bump i hit. So really just a step up from that but i figured while i am at it do it right . Although i love driving our curvy mountainous roads at speed so better handling would be more than welcome. As for budget was hoping for 500 - 750$ For shocks struts and bushings but that is just a dream.

I found a full set of skunk 2 racing struts for about 250$ but they come highly UN-recommended for my setup

Bonus info:
The car is DD
Motor has been swapped with a D16A SOHC VTEC (not that it matters)
Stock Si alloy rims
Loooong road trips like 14 hours long

eHMxhACk

iTrader: (17)

I haven't installed them yet, but to replace my original struts/springs I picked up a set of Koni STR.T (Orange) struts and H&R Sport springs. I believe I paid ~$300 for each set. Check out Hardrace bushings. You can buy a replacement set for the entire car (~$300) or just the rear trailing arm or LCAs.

Koni Orange - H&R Springs

Hardrace bushings





eH.

Nave43

Thanks for the links, and please let me know what that does for your ride height once they are installed. I am guessing our vehicles weigh about the same but i am probably wrong.

Also any pros or cons to using aftermarket struts and bushings with oem springs? Or would it more or less be a waste of money ?

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

An off the wall idea that has been in my head, I'd say entertain this idea as a last choice...

Pick a standard style replacement shock (KONI, Tokico, KYB, etc) and pick an aftermarket spring that only drops an inch or less depending on your taste. The random idea is this, I've been eyeing some CRV stuff on and off and some companies offer a spacer that goes between the shock/top hat and the unibody. This creates a bit of a lift for the CRV but in this case would cancel out some of the drop from the springs. I honestly don't know how this would work out but again, just a random idea. You'd need to confirm that top hats are the same or at least interchangeable.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Koni STR-T shocks. Should be about $250-300 for all 4.

A replacement set of springs FROM HONDA....or a good used set online. Prices vary.

If you can deal with a 1/2" drop with no change in ride, the H&R OE springs will work too. Those are about $200. You can google pics of people's del sols dropped on pretty much any spring to see what you'd be dealing with.

Rubber bushings from Honda or from Hard race. I'd recommend honda ones for your use. Install them properly. Don't tighten bushing bolts with the wheels off the ground. They'll last a lifetime. Bushings SUUUUCKKKKKK to replace. So make sure yours are worn/cracked before you dive into the worst experience of your life. Again...never tighten pivoting/articulating suspension bushing bolts when wheels are in the air.

Check your ball joints as well. Honda is the best place to buy those...but you can substitute quality aftermarket ones too.

Try rockauto.com for aftermarket ball joints/tie rods.

Try bernardiparts.com or hondaautomotiveparts.com for honda parts.

Try Thmotorsports.com for Koni. They're a honda tech vendor. If you contact them thru the marketplace, there's usually a discount.

eHMxhACk

iTrader: (17)

Unfortunately, it'll be sometime early July when I get them installed. Like B Serious said it's a .5-.75" drop. Subtle and should retain the OE ride characteristics.

As for the bushings, I went with the Hardrace kit and as B Serious said it isn't fun to replace them. Other then the rear trailing arm it would almost be easier/cheaper to buy the complete arm through Honda. I purchased a used HF 12 ton press that wasn't very good at pressing bushing so I ended up having a machine shop press in the front LCA bushings, compensator arms and upper RCA bushings at quite a cost. All said and done, I'm not sure I saved any money and I have a finished product that isn't OEM. Although, I haven't read any bad reviews on Hardrace bushings, yet.





eH.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Hard race makes good stuff. I just think that for his use and overall longevity, thd Honda bushings are a better fit.

I used a 50ton pneumatic to hydraulic press to do the compliance bushings on my S2000. They came out easily since the car has never even imagined a snow flake ...and the only salt that touched it is from the fries I once ate off the trunk. God dammit those were crispy.

I'm always afraid the press cup is going to pop out of place and hit me in the face and/or genitals. I've done different types of bushings on different cars using different methods. It sucks. All of it sucks.

If the car hasn't seen salt/snow and you have a good press with a nice set of cups and other stuff laying around to make a good press table from....then it's not too bad. But its rare to have access to that.

Likely, the best way to get old rusted bushings out is to torch them/cut them out and use a press to precariously press the new ones in while hoping the cup doesn't slip and smash you in the gonads. Putting the bushings in a freezer overnight helps too.

Nave43

Firstly i wouldn't be able to do the bushings myself i lack not only the equipment but also the know how (although besides for the obscene pressure and danger it seams pretty straight forward also i value my genitals) So i would have to have it done at a shop which i am guessing would be quite costly. So as soon as its done raining i am going to go inspect my bushings. Although from my research bad bushing seam to be the cause of my suspension "thumping" sound. Theres 200K+ miles on the frame and to my knowledge they have never been replaced.

Secondly that idea is crazy. So crazy it just might work The ride height is a big deal around hear so really striving for stock height. especially with adding the h brace i will loose another half inch or so. I need to upload a picture of the potholes so you know what i am dealing with.


Thirdly Honda oem seams to be the way to go on a lot of my issues. Especially anything ignition related. Ile have to do sum research on the hard race and Honda oem bushings to make a educated decision but you guys have been a ton of help.


Fourth anyone have input on the aftermarket struts with stock springs? Sorry to ask again but the questions seams to have been overlooked.


Fifth what are the symptoms of a bad ball joint? I have tick from my front end when i make hard lefts but im pretty sure that the cv joint. Unless its the same thing. Forgive me im new to this but learning fast. If this last question will put the thread off topic just ignore it lol. I tried to do the research but i am confused because of the double wishbone suspension.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Bad ball joints can cause clunking and shaking and popping and squeaking and a whole gamut of suspension problems.

Koni STR-T is an aftermarket shock. It works great with stock springs.

turtleef

im using kyb red adjustable soft to hard shocks there awesome! there on apex lower springs works great there same height as stock shocks perfect replacement. since there adjustable it will go good with your stock springs.

koni is a awesome selection aswell its okay if the gc coils at there max still drop your car. 05 because the koni yellow shock is height adjustable aswell. theres a higher then stock selection. theres a stock selection and theres a lower then shock selection. its basicly a snap ring thats removable and you can move it up or down to the 3 other gaps located on the shock and then the g/c coilover sleeve will sit on the snap ring no mater the selection you choose .

Nave43

Thanks to the help of you fine people i have made a decision. I am going with Koni Oranges (Str.T) or Yellow struts and Honda oem springs (hard to ignore something so highly recommended). It seems to be the perfect blend of form and function for my build while still minding budget, and still leaves room for future upgrades. As for the bushings i am just going to start with the rear trailing arms. Simply because i am confident i could do those myself with some Honda oem bushings. That is if i can find a friend with a Honda press but is unlikely. As i build up confidence and equipment maybe move onto more complicated bushings.

Anyone have any input on other bushings simple enough for a beginner? That can be done with person powered press? I am trying my hardest keep this DIY. On the other hand as eHMxhACk said, i may just be better off to buy the pieces through Honda install them myself and skip all the bushing bull****.

tony_2018

Don't change out the springs, simple.

Nave43

Kind of went back on my decision but i saw this post to late. Koni yellows, GC all the way. Its the whole shebang and Konis having a 25% off sale

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Idk how well the car will ride with the springs run all the way up and on the top perch. May be a bit too much preload.

Play with the heights a bit. See where you feel comfortable.

Remember again. Don't tighten bushin bolts while the car is jacked up.

Nave43

If the preload is the pressure on the spring from tightening either the bottom ring clip or the coil themselves, Without weight on the suspension that is. But the coil is fully extended wouldn't that be to little preload?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

The car sitting on the spring IS the preload.
But if you must... https://www.google.com/search?q=tend..._sm=0&ie=UTF-8

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Preloading a spring means putting any pressure on it before the car comes down. The spring should be preloaded to a certain point. However...preloading it TOO MUCH will cause really bad ride quality.

Nave43

Yeah that is what i thought. Especially if your dont have a spring rate appropriate for whatever height you have it set to. correct?

How would them being at there highest be to much preload?

I was under the impression that was static preload?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

OMG get over this preload bullshit. Unless you plan on doing some rally car racing and catching serious air, WHEN will the spring NOT contact the upper perches?
Did you click on the link I posted?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

What? I'm saying that compressing the spring too much via the perches (before the car gets put down) is going to affect ride quality.

I get that the spring is always under load when you put the car down. That's not preload. That's just load.

If he takes his GC sleeve and puts it on the highest perch of his Konis and forces the spring upwards further with the perches in order for it to maintain stock ride height, it may be too much preload on the spring for the car to ride well.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I understand that load takes away preload. But...as far as a simple explanation goes:

A car weighs 500lbs at the LR axle.
The spring rate is 500 lb/in.
You preload the spring 2" (or anything more than 1").

When you put the car down, the load is only worth 1" of pre-compression. The rest just keeps everything unnaturally extended. Bounce bounce bounce.

The spring is preloaded with a 1000lb force. The car weighs 500lbs at that corner.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

But what the OP seems to be concerned about is simply the spring not seating to the upper perch. Kinda like what happens when the car is jacked up off of the ground (as if this would happen during daily driving) when using a coilover sleeve. Seen it asked a billion times. That's why (I think)(see post #10) he's asking about longer springs. Hence I suggested tender/helper springs.

Even if he isn't here's the short and simple thing to worry about preload. Compress the springs JUST ENOUGH that they contact the upper perch/top hat. If you can. Kinda like what is recommended by Progress for their CS2 installation. Period. Don't turn it into a math and science discussion. Preload. Static preload. All you're doing is confusing yourself. And why this post has gone on FAR longer than it should have.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

^again...this is made up using a 1:1 wheel rate. So don't use that principle in real life. And you can start to get bad ride quality before you preload a spring past the axle's effective weight on a spring. Idk what the magic number is. Depends on how much rebound damping the shock is capable of...and If your spring is capable of extending the shock out while the car is on the ground....you're going to have a bad time.