cilvia

Im looking at purchasing a 93' del sol with a 99' gsr swap in there, i want everything to be legal due to past history with cars and smog, so i want to get this bar'd asap if i pick it up...The current owner has no reciepts of the swap, since he bought the car with it allready, has a chipped ecu converted to obd1, aftermarket exhaust, msd ignition cap and wires, and a short ram on there right now...

my questions are would i need legal document/reciepts of the swap to get it bar'd??

since the engine was a 99' swapped gsr obd2 engine, what ecu should i use on the 93' obd1 del sol??

and if i have to use a obd2 ecu, doesnt that mean i would have to add a secondary 02 sensor?? and what else would be needed for obd2??

im going to change the intake to the stock air box, as well as the msd to stock, what else should i be looking for when i check out the car?? and questions i would need answers too?? thanks

rick_rabies

you prolly need a secondary idk. ask the guy.

as long as the motor is newer your good. older motors are a no-go

move to iowa

EJ8_Man

You are entering a area of great sadness and uncertainty...
Here's the basic overview:
1) You need all the emissions equipment of a 1999 Integra GSR present and installed correctly into your Del Sol. (This includes your secondary O2)
2) You need an OBD2A USDM P72 Computer
3) You need to determine if your swap is even legal right now. See California is very confused about what a "functionally identical" engine really means. Some times they allow you to swap an integra engine into a Civic. And sometimes they don't. You need to call your local BAR station, talk to the ref, and ask him if your swap is legal.
4) You do not need proof of purchase for the engine

This is from CARB's website
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm

Replacement Engines
Entire engines can be replacement parts. As with any other replacement part, the engine must be identical to the original. If the replacement block or engine is obtained without emissions equipment, all the equipment from the original engine must be installed on the replacement block.
If the engine is not identical to the original then it is not a replacement part, instead it is considered an engine change.
Engine changes are a modification that must meet certain requirements to be legal (please see "Engine Changes").
Japanese Replacement Engines
Used engines imported from Japan can be used as replacement engines as long as the engine being used has been identified as functionally identical to the original engine. Please refer to the engine importers catalogue to determine if a replacement engine is legal for installation in your vehicle.
Engine Changes
Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:

The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.

The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.

If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.

All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.


After an engine change, vehicles must first be inspected by a state referee station. The vehicle will be inspected to ensure that all the equipment required is in place, and vehicle will be emissions tested subject to the specifications of the installed engine.

Ghetto Civic HX

OP, I would check the VIN number to make sure the engine isn't stolen. Driving a modded Honda in CA usually means at some point you're going to get pulled over by the police and they could pop your hood.

It would suck to go through all of the work to make the swap CARB legal only to lose it because the engine is stolen.

hondaluver19

I last talked to the Ref this past November. And from what I understand from him (I would call him yourself and be straight up with him) the motor has to be a USDM motor to BAR. And since the car is a 93, and the motor is a 99, you will have to convert the motor to OBD1. You will have to get an OBD1 P72 ecu, OBD1 OEM IM, OBD1 OEM exhaust manifold, OBD1 OEM Catalytic converter for a GSR (big bucks), OBD1 GSR harness, and make sure the motor has all of the necessary smog equipment. But if this is a JDM GSR swap, it will be a no go. JDM swaps are only good for replacements. And you do not need documentation of the swap. But to be on the safe side, I would call the 800 number and talk to your local ref. From what it looks like in california, one says this, and the says that. Hope this helps.

hondaluver19

I agree. Every time I've planned on buying a motor I've called my mom to call her friend who is a local sheriff and had her have him run the VIN.

EJ8_Man

This is incorrect.

The motor is OBD2A, he needs to convert the Del Sol to OBD2A.

Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:

The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.

The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.

If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.

All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.

The computer is part of the emissions equipment.

In January of 2010 JDM swaps were legal. But you need to check the status of the specific swap today. USDM or JDM they may say no just because the motor is not "functionally identical" to a Del Sol Motor. i.e. B18C1 is an Integra motor

hondaluver19

How am I incorrect? When I talked to the smog ref. I wanted to do an ITR USDM swap in my 94 DC. He told me I would not pass, because the ITR swap is an OBD2 motor, and was only available in an OBD2 car. He told me if I used an OBD2 motor in an OBD1 car, I would have to convert it with OBD1 parts. Therefore it was impossible to do.

EJ8_Man

One thing to note about California BAR refs, is that not all of them are on the same page. At the same time as I was getting my JDM B18C ITR swap BAR'd in my Civic a friend across the state was getting rejected for a similar swap.

It sounds to me like the Ref you talked to didn't know what he's talking about. The law contradicts what he told you. If you have to convert to OBD1 you by default lose emissions equipment, namely secondary O2 sensor, and a you are reverting to a computer with less monitoring of emissions.

One the bitches with my swap is that a 1999 ITR motor is OBD2A. My Civic is OBD2B. OBD2B is superior to OBD2A. So my motor had to be converted to OBD2B. Also there was no USDM Integra Type R in 1999. So I was screwed I had to use a 2000 USDM P73 ECU which by then all Integras were OBD2B. Nice and complicated...

hondaluver19

I agree. OP, I would definately call your local Ref. that you would be going to, and go by what he says. Good Luck.

cilvia

thanks guys, yea i will try and call the state ref and hopefully they wouldnt confuse me more...it would suck to have to change all parts back to obd1 if that were the case, so im hoping they say obd2a and i could just change out the ecu and add a secondary oxygen sensor which should be easier than swapping manifolds and such out =p...would that be the only differences between the obd1 and obd2 vehicles or am i missing something else??

94EG8

If the engine is a '99 and they make you run a '99 GS-R ECU (which technically is the law, engine and all smog related components must be the same age or newer) then you'll also need a new gas tank with fuel tank pressure sensor, secondary O2 sensor, and you'll need perform the CKF trick or get an OBD2 USDM oil pump and CKF sensor and wire it in.

zerovandez

iTrader: (1)

It's not that much of a headach as some may think. I managed to get passed the ref's in one try with a JDM GSR engine in my USDM 1997 EK. Just play by the rules and bend them, don't break them, I broke some of them lol. You can probably get passed by claiming it to be a 1997 GSR engine and only deal with OBD2A stuff and not OBD2B. Here's my list of "mods" I did.

*I Claimed it to be a 1998 GSR engine*
1) Catalytic converter from a 1997 EX
2) Wired in secondary o2 sensor from ECU
3) CKF bypass trick
4) I was using a 1999 OBD2A ECU which looked for fuel tank sensor, I had to bypass that.
5) an LS OEM intake ziptied to random points in the engine bay
6) 1998 civic EX engine harness, uncut.
7) OEM LS header
8) Clean up all wires and tape them up to make it look as OEM as possible.
9) I used a P72-A04 ECU. If you're trying to pass as 1996-98, use P72-A03
10) I think that was it...

Do not go in there with any CEL's. If you have a CEL, FIX IT. Use the following site as your wiring bible. Read it once, read it twice, go back a third time and read it again. As you're doing your swap, keep refering back to it. Get it?

http://www.ff-squad.com/technet/

cilvia

Oh and a last thing, there is no vin plates on the engine and tranny so how would they kno if its a stolen engine or not, i heard when u get a swap from most shops they have to remove the vin is this true??

EJ8_Man

Is the motor a JDM motor? B18C = JDM or B18C1 = USDM. The JDM motors did not have a VIN number plate, but they do have a serial number right below the B18C stamp.

If the motor is a B18C1 with no VIN plate, chances are it's stolen.

cilvia

The motor is a usdm...my last car had a swapped y8 and had no vins either and state ref kept transferring me over to different 800 numbers cus they idint kno either.

And another nother thing, the guy selling the car said hes positive it has the stock obd1 harness on there now when i asked...and i read that theres no difference between the obd1 n obd2 b18c1 motors (besides the oil pump, gas tank, which there not gonna hopefully tell anyways.. so what are the chances of getting away by telling the ref that its a 94 or 95 gsr ejgine in there??

EJ8_Man

The head is stamped with the year it was manufactured. Sounds like you need to do more research into the matter. It wont be hard to convert the motor over to the correct OBD standard.

Jedi_Sol

Wow, lots of conflicting info in here. To save you lots of time, I would suggest the following:

1) get the correct 1999 USDM GSR ecu.
2) replace the MSD cap/wires with stock ones.
3) Make sure the short ram intake is CARB EXEMPT and for a '99 GSR, otherwise, play it safe and get a stock intake.

ok, nevermind, i just realized you're gonna change the MSD cap/wires and stock intake.

just take the car to the BAR inspector. Have them inspect your car. Of course it will FAIL the first time.

BUT THEY WILL GIVE YOU A CHECKLIST OF EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO MAKE IT LEGAL.

Follow that checklist, and take it back in for your free retest.

No, they don't ask you for receipts of your engine. I took my JDM gsr/del sol to 2 refs, none of them asked for receipts. No they didn't ask me what year it was. They SHOULD know how to inspect for all of that.

cilvia

i was reading on other forum boards where one wired his 97 gsr obd2a to a 95 gsr obd1 on his 95 civic which has successfully been bar'd...also as someone mentioned above as wiring it to whatever your car originally was...ima again try and call ref and hopefully get a answer i wanna hear...since they say as long as the motor doesnt cause more emissions right?? so why cant a obd2a gsr be smogged as a obd1??

and yea there is alot of contraversary with this topic, as what was found in my research

to have made things easier, i wish i could just go to the state ref so they could just tell me what i need after looking at it, get that crap done or hack it or whatever but the thing is, i dont even own the car yet!!...the cars smog date has allready passed so needs to be smogged asap which sucks

Anonymous User

Nice a thread about my car...lol

EJ8_Man

The good news is the BAR inspection is free (or was). Not sure if Nazifornia has imposed any taxes on it because it's broke. It should be free

Anonymous User

if you pass its $8.25 and you fail its free.

cilvia

Hey anonymous, since u found my thread maybe you could help me out here, u said u were gonna try n go to a ref station n see what they want for it to be bar'd if u could help me out on this one...i wana make sure there ok with the obd1 conversion, as well as having no vin on the tranny n im not too sure if theres one even on the block...if u can it would help my decision alot...thanks

Anonymous User

I have an apppointment on the 19th, so ill let you know how that goes down. The block does have a VIN plate, its right above the oil pan, behind the header downpipe. It could be a 94-95 GSR tranny, or a 1999 without the VIN tag, but it wouldnt make sense for the previous owner to remove the tranny vin and leave the engine vin.