Zephyr701

OK, so it's pretty widely accepted that the del Sol does not have the same rigid chassis as the Civic or the CRX. The subframe was modified to allow for a retractable rear window, and the weight distribution is slightly more off thanks to added weight.

Being the owner of a 1995 Honda Civic Del Sol S, what concerns me most is bending the frame due to a competitive handling setup. Obviously, the del Sol S is not off to a good start, since it does not have a rear anti-roll bar. However, I see no reason why these hurdles cannot be overcome.

Let me be clear. I'm not looking for help on suspension. My suspension setup will be very unique, due to a K20 Type-R engine swap. Additionally, I'm going to have to move some weight to the back, possibly even add a little to get the distribution right. People argue for coilovers, people argue for separate shocks and springs. That's not the issue. There's plenty of selection, plenty of personal preference in these areas.

I'm looking for specific advice on how to add chassis durability and rigidity to the car. Anti-roll bars are a start, but as most people know, with a front heavy car, adding a thicker front bar is not nearly as helpful as adding a thicker rear bar (or in my case, adding one at all).

There are several products out there for tying the upper shock towers together, as well as lateral bracing between them. I have links to a sample of them here:

http://passwordjdm.com/PasswordJDM-4...e-P2533C4.aspx

http://www.proimporttuners.com/parts....html?ctid=245

There has also been a handful of products that strengthen the runners on the car. I have been unable to find actual product links for these items, though. People simply claim to have installed them.

The point is, I'm looking for advice on this matter from someone who's done serious auto-cross in a del Sol, and has had to overcome these hurdles the hard way. As much specific detail as possible would be welcomed, including actual parts purchased and their effectiveness.

Zephyr701

Continuing in the same vein...

It appears that there are two viable options for maintaining chassis and body rigidity in a del Sol...one is with the aforementioned underbody bolt-on reinforcement, and the other is with roll cages.

Roll cages for the del Sol exist, although there are varying opinions as to their effectiveness. Generally, roll cages aren't used for firming up the chassis so much as a safety device in case of rolling the car. In addition, these almost universally require modifying the interior to accommodate them. You may lose the ability to roll the rear window down or take the top off, and if you're tall (like me) getting in with a helmet and not banging on an overhead bar may be problematic.

On then, to the underbody strengthening. I have found a company called Cusco that does this kind of thing, based out of California (actually out of Japan, that's just their stateside office). They do roll cages, the quality of which is debated, but they also do undercarriage reinforcing. They do lower braces which tie the wheels together, and they also do body/chassis reinforcing, called a power brace. This is usually a kit comprised of several pieces, which bolt on in several places all over the vehicle. The return is (supposedly) that the body does not flex so much when it hits bumps going through hard corners. This would be a welcome alternative to seam-welding the panels.

Has anyone run these kind of upgrades?

Josueneta

i got a 93 Del Sol S and i would like to know more about making the frame stronger too so

Bump

kaiba

The weakest link to the del sol chassis is the open targa top.

98civdx

Strut bars/braces shock tower bars or what ever you would like to call them are a really low bang for your buck type of thing. What I mean by that, is you don't gain nearly as much rigidity as people claim and/or expect for how much some of these braces cost.

With that said, for the money I really like PWJDM's braces. I don't own them myself, but, I like them, and will more than likely buy them.

Sway bars shouldn't be a concern. They are very easy to add, and in most cases pretty easy to get a hold of.

My friend's old Del sol actually had a Cusco cage in it. 6 point to be exact. If your tall as he was, you may have some issues with the bar's. Also, with the top on the rear bar going across did rub on the panel. Not a huge thing to overcome, but was a issue for him.

If I remember correctly he didn't have to do any modifications for the cage to fit correctly, for exception of removing everything behind the seats. The cage was in the car when he got it, and the old owner did drill holes to mount it, and it looked as if it literally just bolted into place. He was able to remove the top as he pleased.

My questions for you. Have you looked into running a traction bar? do you want sway bars? Spring rates also influence whether it wants to rotate or not.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

miracle x bar for your targa top

dhoop

I just installed strut tower bar/braces on my 93 Del Sol Si and they ran about $45 front&rear. I got satisfactory "bang for the buck" and noticed a significant increase in steering response especially in bumpier turns. The "squirmy" chassis feeling was improved considerably on straight line bumps, too. For what it's worth, the biggest improvement came with the front bar/brace. The rear bar helped, but not as much; not a surprise given the weight distribution. I think most convertibles would gain from this simple solution. A Saturn SC2 I had some years ago got the same modification and the improvement was slight. Anyhow, the Del Sol will not be used for autocross. It is simply as stock as I can get it and used for touring.

HondaPartsHero

Something like this (its not a Del Sol btw)

delsolo95

^^^thats very smart. im gonna look into that since my targa top rattles when i hit bumpy roads

NACvicSi

Just find a cheap Civic to track, problem solved

lordhelmet1584

Anti-roll bars (sway bars) not used for chassis rigidity.

http://www.ultraracing.com.my/Bars.asp?ID=2175
Someone on HT said good things about these on del slos.

Zephyr701

Since you have an Si, you would not see as near a performance increase from a new rear sway bar as us Del Sol S owners, as we don't have a rear sway bar at all.

It's looking like roll cages are the way to go at this point, has anyone put them in, with any particular preference or gripe?

Zephyr701

@HondaPartsHero: That looks pretty good, although I have to wonder about what kind of head/helmet clearance there is now that he's put that there.

Red_Army

f7 rlca's for the sway bar mounting, and f7 subframbe brace.
carbing 3point bar for the front.
that sweet x bar(never seen one now pry gonna hunt one down) or a roll cage.

should help a lil.

Zephyr701

Do you have a link to the Carbing product? They don't seem to have a del Sol listing on their website.

Red_Army

use a civic one. 92-95 will still fit on a del sol. type 2.

http://www.inlinefour.com/catoba.html
http://www.advancespeedshop.com/inno...2-p-11470.html
found this nrg one for like a quarter the price. no idea how well it'd work but like the carbing its one solid piece.

i've seen a couple well made/placed del sol roll cages. the best one only had to lose the use of the far side air ducts. and use pads to lessin the pain of hitting your head even with a helmet.

JDM B20 EH2

Not all Si's have a rear sway. Mine didnt and the factory rear lca's weren't provisioned for it. I added a GSR one to mine with aftermarket rear lca's. You dont wanna get to stiff there either cause it can rip out the rear sub-frame.

Its controversial if strut bars really do anything or not. I fabricate custom parts like rigid strut bars(2 point, 3 point, and 4 point), harness bars, and tie bars. If you do purchase a strut bar make sure its a rigid one. You dont want swivels or bolts(unless there are more then one to make it solid) in the end. If there is bolts or swivels in the end its wasted money cause that will flex. This is what I am talking about with more than one bolt.


This is the single bot I say stay away from. Allows for just as much flex still.


I can look into making the x-bar for the roof if there is any interest in it. When I did my rear harness bar I did notice that it stiffened up my roof a bit and my top is tighter and dont rattle any more.

Other than something like the x-bar for the roof or something underneath I dont see much options. If there was a cage that also tied into A and B pillars then that would make a good diff but there isnt. It could be custom done to the cage once installed.

From my experience the rear lower tie bar I installed on my Teg made a diff and I am in the process of makin some for the EG/DC chassis and will do it for the EK too.

Zephyr701

Do you know of any bolt-on kit or anyone who's done custom work to try and account for the weaker rear sub-frame?

Red_Army

look at f7. rear subframe brace. or ASR.

JDM B20 EH2

A subframe brace helps alot. Some people weld more material to the inside and out side of the spare tire wheel well and then to the subframe.

Zephyr701

So upper strut bracing in front and rear, Red Army and JDM B20 EH2 gave some great info.

Rear can get lower control arms and subframe reinforcement from Function7.

An aftermarket sway bar, or a sway bar from an Si. Eibach makes some good stuff there, available from http://www.proimporttuners.com/. They also make camber kits for the front.

Has anyone unearthed any other structural flaws with the del Sol? I assume that someone who's running on a track has the roof on for added structural integrity.

blaze_125

93 Si doesn't have a rear sway bar from the factory.

Zephyr701

True enough. However, in a general sense, the Del Sol S is lacking a handful of features the Si has. The Si eventually got a rear sway bar in the later models, the S never got one at all. However, all the models of Del Sol suffer from a chassis that doesn't hold up well to serious autocross setups.

Red_Army

the roof and that back overhead panel are the weakest i know of. i've heard of a few times the back window breaks from serious body flexing.

lordhelmet1584

Is there anyone that makes side under bars?