FakeVtecSticker

We didn't mess with timing, we suspended the timing belt while changing the HG and marked it in two places, then we put it right back where it was when we put the head back on. Shouldn't have disrupted timing at all, I don't think. Any way to check?

No other info on the basemap, kinda disappointed about it.

2x0

Is it acting the same as it did before you got the ecu back? What program did they use to create the basemap?

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

not the best strategy. there are a few write ups for belt change on here with pictures of how to line up and check timing.

mk378

It's very possible that it's out of time. Remove the upper timing cover, turn the crankshaft by hand to TDC and check the marks.

Another common reason for not starting after R&R the head is that the distributor shaft is engaged 180 degrees out of time. When you have the crank and cam at TDC, remove the distributor cap and confirm the rotor points at wire #1.

FakeVtecSticker

Yes, it's acting exactly the same as it was when the stock ECU was running, which leads me to believe it's a timing issue, but makes my buddy think it's still getting flooded.

FakeVtecSticker

Oh, I just copied a user who did it this way awhile back. I'll have to look for an article once I get off work.

FakeVtecSticker

Will do, thank you.

FakeVtecSticker

It's going to the shop tomorrow. I think Xenocron fucked me. Spark plugs keep coming out black and soaking wet.

2x0

Yeah that doesn't sound promising. Maybe save up for Hondata so you can set up the tune yourself? Having no way to change or even look at the tune makes it almost impossible to diagnose the problem.

mk378

If you fit a stock ECU, stock MAP sensor, and stock fuel pressure and injectors, it should start and run. Of course you don't want to hit any boost in that configuration.

FakeVtecSticker

MAP is still stock, FP would be tied in with ECU anyway right?

FakeVtecSticker

Exactly. I emailed Chris. I eliminated every other problem, timing is fine.

2x0

He is saying if you put your stock ecu and stock injectors back in it should fire up. Just don't drive it like that.

mk378

Is it tuned for stock MAP? I thought you always used an extended range MAP with a turbo, because a stock one is expecting only negative pressure-- it is not able to measure positive boost. Using the wrong sensor for the tune will cause the wrong amount of fuel.

The ECU has no control over the fuel rail pressure. That is controlled mechanically and/or by manifold vacuum / pressure in the regulator.

FakeVtecSticker

Oh, yeah, 100%. I have absolutely no doubt that the car would fire up stock. But 2 exemptions... One of my stock injectors has blown seals, and the ECU is obviously chipped and I don't wanna dig around in there because it's pretty fragile. I'm bringing it to the shop to confirm it's running rich, and if it is, I'll be pissed. I mean, I get that it's a delicate process, but my car is far from being unique, I would think Chris would have basemaps like this down by now.

I mean, all indicators are pointing towards too much fuel, right? Spark plugs are wet with gas and fouled when starts are attempted, timing is perfect, obviously getting air, it has compression...

FakeVtecSticker

In the order details I specified the stock MAP, any oversight otherwise is blatant negligence. Stock MAP measures up to 11PSI. I don't know about modding fuel rail pressure. I'll do some research.

2x0

Could be too much fuel, no spark, or ignition timing off by 180.

Too much fuel does not necessarily mean a bad map. Double check the wiring, and also you did not do a flow test to confirm their flow rate.

FakeVtecSticker

Ignition timing is fixed, it actually was 180° off. It didn't fix the problem, but it helped. I charged the battery through an AC charger, so it cranks evenly and strong now. It seems to want to start, as it fires a couple times, but then it bogs down and spark plugs are all fouled and covered in fuel. I'm calling today, but I'll do a DIY test to make sure I'm getting spark 100% after work today. I really think I'm getting good spark, it's just getting too much fuel. I ordered a FPR in case I need one.

What wiring should I double check? I didn't mess with any grounds or wires, just unplugged computer clips and whatnot, and they're all plugged back in now. I'll see if they're all secure after work today. Again, I don't think this is it, but it doesn't hurt to check. It sucks because I've seen these exact symptoms in my research that say running rich was the issue. If my mechanic confirms nothing mechanical is awry, then I have to assume it's the basemap. I didn't do a flow test either. I don't know how to do that, I'll have to research that and attempt after work as well.

Thanks for bearing with me here, I appreciate you putting time in to help me get this thing started. I hate driving my van everyday, it sucks gas haha.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do before I take it to the mechanic, and what I should tell him regarding the condition of the no start. I feel like he's gonna take one look at the bay and shake his head, seeing how rigged some things are (mountain of RTV and JBWeld on DP and oil pan). It's kinda embarrassing, because I plan on fixing all of it right away. I just can't fix any of these issues until I can move the car to a place where it can be worked on.

So far, I'm going to tell him that there are new injectors and new fuel pump, I can definitely say that I'm getting fuel but probably far too much. I sent the ECU out to be mapped but it didn't help to start the car. Ignition timing is good. Mechanical timing could be bad, but I don't think it is. All sensors and grounds are as they should be to my knowledge.

Missing anything?

It just sucks because I've done pretty much everything I have the ability/tools to do... I have no control. Really wanted to do this all on my own.

2x0

Make sure all the injector clips are plugged into the right injector. Sometimes people accidentally get two of them switched around.

Then, you said you wired in line resistors because they are low impedance? I would double check everything you did there, and again that wires did not somehow get crossed.

FakeVtecSticker

The injector clips have very little room to be crossed with the resistors inline, but I'll double check if anything got mixed up while soldering. It's possible.

if you think of anything else, let me know.

FakeVtecSticker

<br /><br />The injector clips have very little room to be crossed with the resistors inline, but I'll double check if anything got mixed up while soldering. It's possible. <br /><br /> if you think of anything else, let me know.<br />

2x0

Ruling out a crossed injector wire, bad spark, and bad basemap.... Crossed spark plug wires? I would double check any electrical connectors that you had to undo throughout the build and make sure they are all tight. Especially the harness plugging into the ECU itself. If not in all the way, could potentially make the car run in limp mode which could also cause a no start condition with bigger injectors.

This happened to me when my Hondata ecu took a ****.

Good luck

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

before coming on here and shitbashing a reputable shop/service, maybe look at your own work first. there is enough black duct tape/ JB weld/ zip ties in this to make me believe the issue is on your end, considering you somehow managed to force the distributor in 180 out, were too afraid of mechanical timing to properly remove the belt and reset it, etc. go over your work with a fine toothed comb, then report back.

mk378

Another common mistake is plugging in the sensors on and around the intake to the wrong harness plug. The 2 and 3 wire plugs are not mechanically keyed, so they will happily fit on the wrong sensor. You need to check the wire colors. There is a sticky post at the top of this forum to use as a reference.

FakeVtecSticker

1. Black duct tape holding the stock air ram has been removed and a mushroom style air filter will be coming in the mail tomorrow.
2. Electrical tape temporarily on the resistors until I remember to pick up shrink wrap
3. JBWeld is on the oil pan and downpipe, both non-essential to the car actually starting
4. Zip ties are holding oil feed line down and some IC piping
5. Dizzy has been returned to correct position
6. Didn't see a reason to remove timing belt as many guides/videos online for the HG say it's not necessary

I understand the sentiment, but none of the rigged looking stuff affects starting at all.

Chris's basemap led to me running rich and the motor sputtering black smoke when cranking, indicating too much fuel. That isn't me "shitbashing" him or Xenocron - that's me reporting what the condition of the no-start was. New ECU and map today, we'll see what happens tomorrow. I'm going to try to remove the injectors again tomorrow and replace the Orings, I think the DSM ones may be messing things up.

If you have any other suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them! I can't check mechanical timing since the car isn't running, unless I'm wrong. If I can check timing on a car that isn't running, let me know.

I checked all sensors, all vacuum lines, all grounds, and all ECU related clips today. Don't see anything awry.

Thanks for your comment!