FakeVtecSticker

Large edit #1 was 6.19.17
Edit #2 6.22.17 - things are getting kicked into high gear. I've bought everything I think I need and am installing my turbo next week. stay tuned!
Tiny edit #3 6.23.17
Edit #4 - 6.24.17
Edit #5 - 6.27.17
Edit #6 - 6.28.17
Edit #7 - 6.30.17
Edit #8 - 7.1.17 - WITH PICS!
Edit #9 - 7.2.17
Edit #10 - 7.8.17 - it started!

Also, here's my car.


Modz:

• Custom leather seat covers for original seats - $200(no fading or cracks, very happy with them)
• Tanabe Medallion Catback - $500 (muffler rusted off, figured I'd replace it with a high dollar exhaust)
• Tein Control Master Coilovers - $400(great craigslist deal on high $ coilovers)
• eBay wheels - $300
• Hankook Ventus V2 Concept 2 all seasons - $60 per wheel
• Mudflaps - $60
• 2 10" subs and kicker+polk speakers up front - came with car
• eBay LEDs and eGay housings - $250

This went from a question thread to a build thread. I've learned a lot in the past week about this project, and hopefully, other Honda noobs on a budget can learn a little from this. I went from considering the eBay EMUSA turbo kit ($1600 ripoff) to piecing together my own kit. Piecing together a kit is easier, more fun, and allows you to pick up higher quality parts that might have needed replacing in a cheap kit anyway. I can't stress this enough, buying an eBay kit is not enough to safely run a high boost setup daily. Yes, it will run for a year if you're lucky, but things will begin to break or need to be replaced.

For backstory:

A year ago I acquired a 1995 Honda Del Sol Si with 243k miles on the clock in 7/10 cosmetic condition. Over the past year I've familiarized myself with the car by installing coilovers, changing fluids, cleaning the throttle body, timing belt, several cosmetic upgrades etc. It is an amazing car to drive and takes corners better than I can drive it, but I feel that it needs more straight line power. I was struggling to decide whether I wanted to swap or turbo all the year long, and the cons of the swap outweighed the pros for me personally. I've decided to turbo my Del Slo with a power goal of 220HP. Many of the write-ups online have far greater power goals, and I'd like to avoid overbuilding (budget conscious). My budget goal is $2500, which from my research is about the lowest you should go if you're gonna be daily driving your turbo'd Civic. Here are my intended means of getting to that point:

• T3 .48 A/R turbo ($120 off a friend)
• Turbo air filter ($10)
• Tial 44mm Wastegate (Craigslist for $100)
• No name "JDM Sport" craigslist turbo manifold (purchased for $20 on craigslist, may have to buy another and sell off this one, but it should fit great)
• HKS BOV (Craigslist for $30, might be fake but I don't think so. Doesn't really matter, honestly)
• DSM 450CC Injectors + 4 10watt 10Ohm resistors so I don't blow my ECU (Craigslist for $120)
• Walboro 255 Fuel Pump ($80)
• Hondata S100 NepTune with JKTuning or Xenocron (JKTuning is $700 for chipping service, basemap to drive to tune, and full dyno tune. Xenocron is about $900 for the same service, but they're 3 hours away from my location, versus one hour away for JKTuning).
• eBay Manual Boost Controller, the plain looking one from NXS Tuning is the best one you can get, and the seller will cut you a deal if you message him. ($15)
• eBay Apexi Turbo Timer ($20)
• eBay Intercooler ($140)
• eBay Autometer Boost Gauge ($55)
• Autometer Oil Gauge ($50)
• eBay 3 Bar MAP
• eBay Oil Lines using stock oil pan, plus sandwich adaptor (tried to find pipe fittings in local hardware stores but no one has what I needed, so sandwich adaptor was the easiest option) and threadlocker+JBWeld ($70)
• Vitara 75mm Pistons
• Eagle Rods
• ARP Head Studs ($125)
• Cometic Head Gasket ($90)
• eBay Downpipe ($100 with fab work)
• JDM D15B Cam (once I fit internals)
• eBay turbo air filter ($10)
• NGK 3330 Spark Plugs ($10 gap them to .03 using a gapping tool)

Grand total: $1855

Stuff in bold designates things I've changed/ added with research.

Some stuff I thought I might need but was told is not necessary:

• Upgraded O2 sensor (which is appropriate?)
• Vacuum Manifold
• Intake Manifold
• Port and Polish
• Throttle Body upgrade

Down the line:

• Eagle/Vitara internals
• JDM D15B cam
• Port n Polish
• Smaller turbo when a cheap option pops up for sale

Tuning:

The reason there is strikethrough up on the S100 is that it's only really usable for DIY tuners, from my understanding. You will also see tuning options from Crome, eCtune, and other outdated platforms. These platforms will make your car run, but it will be slower, less reliable, and less fun. You'll constantly have to worry about the car breaking, basically, and that's too much anxiety for me... I didn't want to spring for the expensive tune, but frankly, tuning is extremely complicated, moreso than I first thought, and it's best to leave it to a professional, even if you're on a very tight budget. Find money for it. Seriously. You can rig up a bad tune but it'll be meh at best. You're already dumping cash into the motor, make it worth your hard work. I will say that while I spent a couple of days learning about tuning, it's a super complicated but essential part of every build. I simply don't trust myself doing it, and I certainly don't trust a friend of a friend hook a laptop up to my car and give me "all da boostz, yo" because they're semi-literate with Crome.

Do I really need X part on your list?

Yeah. If you're running this car daily, every single thing on my list is a requirement. Some threads will say you don't need a turbo timer, but for $30, you save having to replace your turbo once it inevitably gets ruined from not shutting the car down right. Alternatively, you can sit in the car and let it cool down for 5 minutes every time you drive somewhere. That's not worth saving $30 for me. Head gasket and head studs are required, especially those particular ones, or you're gonna be blowing OEM gaskets nonstop and your head might lift while in boost. That's bad. Your engine needs to be able to hold the additional power you're now making. The oil gauge was something I really didn't want to do, but you risk spinning a bearing ($$$) or otherwise ruining your build if you're not monitoring your oil pressure when you push the car hard. If you're even questioning the other stuff like fuel upgrades, you need to leave this thread and do your research... you're gonna blow your engine if you don't run the proper fuel pieces. You have to understand, this build is as bare bones as it can possibly get, and I even plan on reinforcing it as the year goes on. You really should get better internals if you can manage it. As for the PNP and cam, this will allow you to tune for more power used in conjunction with better internals.

Is there anything else I might need, just to be safe?

While you're digging around, replace your timing belt and water pump. That stuff is super important, since we run interference engines. If you're not comfortable doing that, get it done professionally. However, that's pretty expensive. New internals are highly recommended. A wideband is highly recommended.

As of 6.22.17

My parents don't know I'm turboing my car, and they'd probably be pissed. They're going on vacation next week. Most kids would throw a kegger, I'm throwing in a turbo. I have 5 days and 60 man hours (I also work...) to install a turbo and have the car running by Saturday (7.1.17). Me, a beginner mechanic, and my friend, a beginner mechanic, will be attempting this feat. I have a plan, albeit a shaky one, but I'm determined to get this done in a week. I think 60 hours of hard work will be plenty, honestly. I'll keep you updated.

This Sunday I plan on doing head gasket and installing head studs.

Tuesday, I'll start on the oil pan while we fab the DSM injectors to fit while also installing the fuel pump. That should take all night.

Wednesday, I plan on doing the fun stuff. This means the header, turbo, turbo air filter, wastegate, manual boost controller, and downpipe are all going in. Should take the whole day, but I'm off so it's fine.

Thursday, I hope to install the intercooler and blowoff valve.

Friday, an essential day, I plan to install spark plugs, gauges, turbo timer, and finish all fab work to the downpipe as well as finishing the drain and feed lines to the turbo, also bolting the pan back on and filling up my new oil and priming the whole system.

Saturday, I plan to tie up any and all loose ends. This will mostly be connecting vacuum lines, finishing gauges and holder, and combing through everything for the initial start to make sure it's pieced together properly.

Wish me luck.

Edit #3 - 6.23.17

Parts are slowly trickling in. I got my 38mm > 44mm wastegate adaptor today, and it fits great on the Tial! But it doesn't go on to the log mani at all. So I'm going to see if I can bolt it in and pressure fit it, or grind it down somehow if I have to... Oil pan gasket came in 2 days, which is crazy to me. More parts should be here tomorrow. Hoping the DP and IC will be here Monday, but I sincerely doubt it.

Edit #4 - 6.24.17

Installed Walbro 255 today. It was stupid easy. No need to remove seats or speaker/ rear window trim. Don't know why other online guides do it. Everything came out really nicely, the banjo bolt spat a lot of gas at me though, lol. The hardest part was fitting the 255 to the OEM fuel pump retainer. The hose was way too long, the pump didn't wanna sit right, I had to fab the rubber piece at the bottom of the OEM fuel pump to fit on the Walbro, and then zip tied the thing in. A lot of stuggling was involved. Overall, not too bad for a beginner, only took me about 2 hours and change. Pretty simple stuff. Would've taken pictures but there's already so many online. I don't know if I should've cut the hose/ bottom rubber piece to size, but it made me feel safer so I did. Head gasket tomorrow, probably won't be as easy...

Edit #5 - 6.27.17

Sunday, we ripped the motor apart. We threw in the new head gasket and head studs, and everything went pretty crazy. Took about 8 hours to get everything apart and 5 hours to get everything back together. I recommend being far more organized than I was during this process, as that is what mostly slowed us down. Again, not posting any guides as there are many, many easily found resources online. Monday, I got everything hooked back up.

Then, I installed my DSM 440cc injectors with 10W 10Ohm resistors inline (this is the cheap way to do things!) , and had to dremel the injector clips to make it all work. I tightened the hell out of the fuel rail, and the injectors all work! Too well, actually. The car runs so rich that it won't start. That's ok. I thought the no-start condition was due to my inexperience and putting the motor back together incorrectly, so we wasted a lot of time messing with the distributor for no reason. Sucks, but these things happen when you're a newbie.

Tuesday, we found out the no start condition was simply because there was too much fuel going into the motor. We took this time to remove the ECU to mail to Xenocron for chipping/basemap and swapping in the new NGK 3330 plugs. I wish we would've gotten more done today. We mocked up the header for fun, and it looks great with the Tial sitting up top. Since I got the turbo today, we tried to mock everything up on the motor but ran out of time. Tomorrow, I plan on mocking everything up after mailing the ECU, dropping the oil pan, drilling it, and running all my oil lines. Optimistically, we can get the intercooler hooked up and bolt everything together, as well as running all the vacuum lines we need. The plan for Thursday is to finish any IC work that needs done , bolting everything up, and maybe hooking up my gauges or doing my turbo timer. I had to buy a valve cover gasket, a new socket, and a couple other little hardware things. Unexpected expenses are up to about $30. Hopefully, we can figure out oil routing without too much confusion.

Edit #6 - 6.28.17

Ok, folks, first real day of hell week was today. Had to take four separate trips to autozone/ hardware store, good thing they're only about 5 minutes down the road! Today, we installed the new exhaust manifold for real, the wastegate for real, and chucked the turbo on the bottom as well. In addition, since we got the intercooler in, we installed that as well. I had to delete the AC because there was no way that it could stay. The downpipe hit it, the intercooler hit it, everything hit it. Oh well. Convertibles don't need AC anyway. With the IC, we JBWeld'd the blow off valve on as well. I don't wanna hear anything about it. It's also ziptied for good measure. Not ideal, but I'm working with an extremely tight budget at the moment. I'm gonna upgrade things as money rolls in from my summer job. We also reused the stock air ram for the turbo air intake which looks pretty sweet in an over-the-top kind of way. We also managed to fiddle with the oil filter sandwich enough that it fit, but it took a lot of adjustment and accommodation to fit on nicely. If we had pulled the motor, I would have tapped the oil pressure sensor, but I didn't have that option unfortunately. I also put all the lines I think I need in for the manual boost controller and the BOV, but I'll do more research on that tonight. We pulled the oil pan as well and we'll be drilling that and installing the oil drain line on Friday. The oil feed line doesn't look good. None of the fittings from the eBay kit appear to fit on the turbo with pieces they provided. Overall, I'm really pleased with the progress we've made thus far, and with the ECU in the mail, I think we will be able to start it Monday. Also, we added a breather valve. Everything is moving very quickly and smoothly.

Tomorrow, I plan on trying to get the oil feed line to fit properly and maybe getting the turbo timer on. Maybe the boost gauge as well.

Friday, we can hopefully finish drilling the pan and setting the oil drain line and wiring up the boost gauge and turbo timer if I don't finish either of those tomorrow. We also have to weld/ cut up the downpipe to fit. It's mostly a direct fit, but the flange to connect it to the cat is way crooked.

Edit #7 - 6.28.17

So it is possible to turbo your car in a week, but it takes a toll, I tell you.

Constant stress. I'm tired. I'm so tired. I've worked 40 hours this week and spent every other second working on the car. I'm averaging 4 hours of sleep per night. I slept in my car last night. Averaging 1 meal per day. Working with my shirt off today, when I went to shower, I was coated in a layer of grease that stopped at my boxers. Crazy.

Everything is done. Well, mostly everything. Oil pan and downpipe were finished today, as well as hood modifications. Welding the downpipe was a pain in the ***, the kid welding it didn't really seem to know what he was doing. We had to JBWeld the downpipe turbo flange to the turbo (will fix when a possible solution is found) because bolts weren't fitting/threading. Also had to cut up the IC piping to accommodate the DP. Not to mention the AC delete I didn't want to do. IC fins have taken a beating. I hate eBay. But I need eBay.

I wish had more cash to do the car right. better equipment down the road.

We need to modify the bumper to fit the IC, install the turbo timer, and throw in the boost gauge. That's it. All "optional" items for the car to run, really. Then, obviously fixing JBWeld'd DP is next on the list. I'll have engine bay pictures tomorrow. Hopefully a video of it running when the ECU comes in from Xenocron. Monday, maybe.

I'm scared that the build was a little too Haggard Garage or we put some stuff together wrong, but I think everything should be MINT. God, that's cringey. I need to go to bed.

Edit #8 - 7.1.17 - WITH PICS!

Saturday... Let's tie up some loose ends. I had to move out of the garage last night because my parents are coming back from the beach today... They are none the wiser about the turbo. Massive 3 hour cleanup last night was sort of a success. I'm going to have some explaining to do regarding the huge box of stock parts from my car... and the greasy hand prints around the house...

So, until I figure out the downpipe situation, I'm going to put some C Clamps on the downpipe/turbo to secure it better. I think it only has 3 bolts right now. Might JBWeld it a little more too, lol. Not great but it's what I have to work with here. Also, the oil drain from the turbo leaked a little on the street. Gonna JBWeld that too, hopefully that's enough to seal it. I'm gonna try to install the turbo timer and the boost gauge today and tomorrow as well, to prepare for the ECU coming in on Monday/Tuesday. Here's some pics of what I got thus far.










As you can see, it's a little ghetto rigged, but it'll work. BOV doesn't quite clear the hood, so I may do hood flares, even though I despise the look. You can kinda see in the one picture where I cut out some of the hood bracing as well. The injectors/fuel rail need some aesthetic cleanup, as does the air ram. Before anyone says anything, no, I'm not painting the valve cover or engine bay. Looks corny to me. A red single cam valve cover is about as cool looking as the stupid stick figure family window vinyls.

If you guys want pictures of anything else, just let me know. The downpipe welding actually turned out pretty good. We had to rotate the O2 sensor bung and the cat flange, but it all goes together now. The welds don't looks good, but the kid who did them only charged $40 and it stays together so I'm fine with it.

Overall, for a 20 year old college kid who knew nothing about cars 12 months ago on a tight budget, I don't think I did half bad. I shouldn't speak too soon, though, we still don't know if it runs...

Edit #9 - 7.2.17

It's done! Boost gauge and turbo timer went in yesterday, routing the vacuum line for the boost gauge was so annoying. Had to route through the passenger side and through the dash to the driver side. Couldn't find any guides online for it so I had to punch through some carpet to get the line in, lol. If anyone wants a full guide I can do that, the whole ordeal was kind of a bitch. This week (mostly tomorrow) I want to do two things: Fix the oil leak and clean up the spark plugs. I'm gonna pick up some gasket maker tomorrow and sand down the area a little, lay that stuff down, and then JBWeld on top of that. If that doesn't fix the leak, I don't know what will. Then, I wanna rip out the spark plugs, clean them if there's gas on them, and then gap them to .3. Still waiting on ECU.

Edit #10 - 7.8.17 - it started!

After a stupid situation with the car not playing nice with the first basemap, I drive an hour and a half to Baltimore to get a new basemap on an S100 chipped P28. Had to comb over everything and set ignition timing straight. It started today for about 5 seconds and flooded out. The oil leak has become a real problem. That's a worry for another day. We need to get it running so it can be pulled into the garage. Boost, baby.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

First off, forget about PSI. It is a means to an end, and not a number you should ever concern yourself with. Second off, a T3 is entirely too big for your goals. Get a smaller frame, like a T28 or T25. You'll have a much better powerband, and still have the support for your top power goals. If you're going to get a log manifold, **** it, go for cheap. If you're going to get a ram or miniram, get a name brand part. S100? Seriously? Talk to your tuner, and use whatever they tell you to use. The tuning option is the biggest thing you need to leave to the expertise and comfort of your tuner. Throw away the 3 BAR MAP, you don't need it, period. Forget about the Vitara bullshit, that lower compression nonsense needs to be left in the 90's along with body kits, neon, and all that other ****. It's old technology, and completely and totally irrelevant nowadays. With a good tune, you can safely make that 220 on your stock motor. If you want to go higher, go with stock compression or slightly raised compression forged pistons - I'm personally a fan of Wiseco. If you already have your manifold, then your downpipe options are either getting one fabbed, or buying a cheap one and getting it modified. It probably won't fit out the box.

You don't need to "upgrade" your O2 sensor, unless your tuner tells you otherwise (hint: they probably won't). You should get a wideband sensor to run in the cabin though, so you can see what's going on. You don't need a vacuum manifold. You don't need an intake manifold. You don't need a PNP. You don't need a throttle body. you don't need to "upgrade" your spark plugs, just get one step colder NGK spark plugs.

With everything you're talking about doing for just 220, I'm curious why you think a swap wouldn't be the right way for you to go. A stock long block LS could easily and safely get you to 300 with a halfway decent turbo setup, and with the money you're talking about wasting on unnecessary ****, you could easily pay for that swap and get better performance out of it all around.

FakeVtecSticker

First of all I want to apologize for sounding ignorant. The problem is that most of the heavy lifting for builds was done by the "OGs" back in the early 2000's, and a lot of the info on forums is rather dated as a result. I appreciate the input, and I now have a couple of questions.

1. What's wrong with going with the S100? Is it a matter of the software being outdated, or is it not the correct hardware application?
2. Would 230HP be ok with stock compression? That's what I'm really hoping to achieve, though anything in the range I specified is certainly acceptable.
3. I am aware that rods are somewhat of a "weak link" so to say in the D16Z6, so you do still suggest I pick up the Eagle rods?
4. Certainly, with all due respect, why should I go with Wiseco pistons ($400) versus Vitara pistons? Honest question, I'd like to learn. I have seen that they do offer better power while not in boost and are of superior quality, but does it justify the $300 increase in cost for a lower HP build?

I seriously appreciate the bit about the tuning- I am studying Information Technology at college currently and I still feel in the dark about it all. Which leads into my next point- I'm very much budget constricted. That being said, I don't really think a swap is in my budget.

My reasons being

• The motor itself would be a significant upfront cost (varies to the extent I trust craigslist to buy a motor to getting a nice imported motor).
• I have absolutely zero experience swapping motors, although I have heard that swapping a B16 into a del Sol is "stupid easy".
• I like having the ability to mostly return to stock if the need arises.
• Avoiding the Gremlins of an engine swap in whichever form.
• Avoiding the money pit the is the chase for horsepower, buying part after part to build a new engine up from stock.
• Spending 2-3 times the cost of my vehicle in modifications is risky and unappealing to me due to high mileage and what I could claim on my insurance in the case of an accident or Act of God. I have a deep respect for those who take these cars to their limit, but I will not be the case with me.

Basically, it seems that the turbo route is most cost effective when done correctly, as I have no plans of ever heading north of 250HP in this vehicle. In my experience, FWD street cars feel good with about 250 horses max, and that is simply a personal opinion. The B motor would be wasted on me, really. I am trying to keep this build under $2000, which I think is very doable if I've done my research right. If I had more expendable income, I very well may have considered a swap and then building NA. Simply not in the cards for me.

Back to the build, I figured some fabrication would be required with the downpipe, and that's no problem. I've seen people do varying things with different builds, which is why I listed so many parts that aren't needed. Better safe than sorry. The reason I specified Vitara is that it seems to have worked for so many up to fairly high output. Is there any ram or miniram that you recommend? The cheaper the better. I really need guidance on this one.

Now for some stupid questions that you need not answer if you think it's not worth your breath:

1. Can I add internals, fuel pump, and injectors (basically everything that replaces stock pieces, really) without a tune as I'm building the motor, or must I do it all at once?
2. Is there anything on my parts list that is holding me back?
3. What's the ram/miniram (part of the manifold?)?

I'm sincerely sorry if I sound ignorant and I'm wasting your time. I just want to try to make my car a little more fun. They came from the factory shy just a few horses... Thank you again, I really do appreciate every drop of knowledge.

2x0

Your list sounds quite a bit over-built for your goals to me. Of course if you can afford it, the engine upgrades and turbo would give you plenty of room to grow later should you decide to turn up the boost, which isn't a bad thing.

For a budget conscious build you could go with a completely stock engine. Are you talking 220hp crank or at the wheels?

Either way, by comparison I bolted a t25 on a bone stock d16y8 in my sol which is supposedly weaker than the z6. With nothing more than a set of 450cc dsm injectors, and a socketed ecu street tuned on Crome to 10psi it made 190whp. If I recall I was limited by the map sensor, but could've easily turned it up to 12-14psi and achieved the power you're looking for.

FakeVtecSticker

Hoping for a seriously budget conscious build, but I am going to stick with the upgraded internals to be honest. I was hoping to maybe peek a little north of 220 if possible, either way I'm not taking it to the Dyno so I guess it doesn't really matter... I'd be happy with 220, I guess. I'm really trying to weigh on whether I want to go with an eBay turbo, and whether or not I want to go to a tuner, because I'm sure that's pretty expensive. What do you think I can do without on this build? What is this ram/miniram that I need?

2x0

Youve got this slightly backwards. The tune is the most important part of your build. You'd be far better off spending the money on a professional dyno tune than the forged internals. What good are forged internals if you'll blow them with a bad tune?

Also you'll need tuning before you change your injectors.

A ram/miniram is a style of manifold.

The only reason I street tuned my sol was bc I had literally no money and spent only $2k on the build start to finish. With lots of research and very conservative power goals, self tuning is possible. But honestly it's still a huge risk.

FakeVtecSticker

Oh, ok, so you think stock internals will be ok if I spend the money on a good tune instead? I'm really only looking to spend $2k as well. What tuning hardware do you recommend (absolute cheapest)? How do I get the car to the tuner without the injectors in? will it be ok to drive there and tuned, throw the injectors in after?

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

2k budget= ls swap/14b or t25 turbo on stock internals. more fun, MUCH more room to grow.

2x0

I'm not sure what cheap tuning options are best nowadays. 10 years ago I used Crome with a socketed P28 ecu and a chip burner.

Best option is to get everything installed and running/driving on a basemap, so you know everything is functioning properly before you get tuned. You'll have your injectors installed and the basemap will compensate for them, but it is not safe to drive in boost on a basemap.

2x0

Agree with this. If you want to spend $2,000 start shopping around for used parts or a kit someone pulled off of their sol. Forget about doing any work to the engine, and it'll take some luck even to source the parts you need while staying under that budget. Be prepared to spend more if needed to get everything done.

Here are the used parts I would start compiling
- t25 turbo
- HF manifold and adapter plate
- downpipe and charge piping
- intercooler
- BOV
- MBC
- Wideband
- Oil feed
- DSM injectors and resistor box

You will need a new clutch most likely. To get things started on your engine, you will want to delete the PCV and open vent the crank case, or run a catch can setup. You will also need to drill your oil pan for a return line fitting close to where the turbo will be, and as high as possible on the pan.

FakeVtecSticker

At this point, I'm really focusing on the tune, because I've realized that the options that I've come across in my research are no longer valid. Crome, eCtune, and Megasquirt are no longer used, supported, or safe. To a lesser extent, Hondata S100 units aren't really the proper equipment either. Ideally, I would like to install hardware that could allow the current ECU be tuned for under $200, and then pay the $500 to be tuned at a real shop. It's starting to look like my only options are to go the S300/tune or NepTune RTP/tune route. Am I correct in this? my thoughts seem to be confirmed in your comment saying that you used Crome 10 years ago, which makes it ancient in technology standards.

I just don't see a way to do this where I'm not going to be paying big bucks for tuning.

FakeVtecSticker

Again, I stated my reasons for avoiding the swap above. I don't need racecar speed, just more pep from the stock motor. My confusion currently lies in how I'll be tuning the current motor, whether I'm using the P28 chipped or buying an all in one AEM or Hondata or NepTune unit. Sure, I could swap it and boost it and make high HP, but I'm poor and that option is nothing short of insane for a $1800 car in the first place. I've already figured out what I'm doing, I just need help from the members here to figure out how I'll be doing it.

My biggest issue so far has been outdated information. The Honda game was a lot different 10 years ago.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

First off, S100 is outdated. Second off, you shouldn't be choosing your tuning option, your tuner should. This isn't really a matter for debate. You need to let your tuner use what they feel is most appropriate, and what they feel most comfortable using, otherwise you might end up with a hunk of slag metal under your hood. That you think Neptune is an "all in one" unit just continues showing your ignorance. Stop worrying about the ECU. Call/e-mail your tuner, tell them your goals and build, and let them tell you what tuning option you should be using. If you don't have a tuner, that should be the first thing you look around for. Done. End of story.

Don't worry about compression either. CR is another number, just like PSI, that doesn't mean ****. It's a means to an end. With the right fueling, anything is possible, and the stock CR on a Z6 won't stop you from reaching your goals.

You can't mix and match OEM pistons with aftermarket rods. OEM hardware uses press-in wrist pins, whereas aftermarket uses floating pins with retaining clips. (You technically can mix, but that involves machine work that gets expensive, so just forget about that). On this topic, though, your lack of knowledge is really hurting you. You aren't afraid to build a motor, but you're afraid to swap? That makes absolutely no sense. B swaps are a complete joke, and you can get entire drop-in swaps for less than you're talking about spending on building a D series. You'll also end up with a much better powerband. For the money you would be spending to build a Z6, you could easily buy and swap a healthy LS powertrain in there.

Yes, they do justify the $300 difference. $300 is pennies when you're building an engine.

The tune is absolutely, 100% the most important part. Stop worrying about what tuning option you're going to use. Stop it. Find a tuner you trust, and let them tell you what to use.

FakeVtecSticker

you're right. I had done little research on tuning at the time of this post, but I've since researched different options and I've talked to a tuner and we've worked a deal it, so I'm all set now. most builds I saw in my research simply said "yep, I'm running X program and it cost me $400 and it's great" so I figured it was something that was up to me to install. that's on me, I'm sorry that I didn't get the full story on what was up.

I'm not worried about compression, either. I never said I was. I'm aware that it isn't something I should be trying to build to a target, and I never said I was. Vitara+Eagle just seemed like the most cost effective way to build internals. I'm no longer going to argue my logic on the swap vs. build, because I know my choice is an unpopular one. I'm trying to politely ask how I can better prepare for this build, not what I should be doing instead, and while I will admit to some gaps in my knowledge when it comes to FI, I will say that I am confident in my choice to turbo my D. I understand the benefits of a swap, however.

but I do appreciate the input about tuning. I've filled and formatted 50 pages of a word document on it in hopes to understand it, even though I have every intention to get it done professionally. Chris Harris up in NY is gonna hook me up with NepTune.

I know I sound a bit ignorant, but that's what the communities are for, aren't they? I did my due diligence in trying to research the best that I could, and when I got stuck, I asked for help. I didn't mean to intrude on the sanctity of this forum, but I do need help from those of you who have been doing this for years. I have a plan, I just need guidance. I appreciate the expertise that you've displayed, please understand that without help from others, many projects much like mine have failed. when people don't want to approach communities like this one, it prevents us from sharing the common love we all have for these simple cars. somewhat reminds me of my professors who laugh in the faces of students when they don't know all the course material on the first day of class. seems like an ego thing. that's the end of my rant.

I respect the work everyone does here, and have read about many beautiful cars that have come to fruition because of this community. I'm appreciative for the advice I've been given thus far.

2x0

Sounds like you're on the right track

And I would also opt to turbo the D instead of a swap, like I did in my sol so many years ago. I like the underdog aspect and they are perfectly formidable for boost.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I get that you're set in your ways on this, but think of it this way. These cars have been around, and we've been ******* around with them, for 25+ years now. What works, what doesn't work, what's popular, what's unpopular, and all that other stuff isn't just based on opinions and random bullshittery, it's based on what has been proven to work. For your budget, just forget about building the motor. Sure, you can get pistons and rods within your budget, but the little things will nickle and dime you into oblivion, and I'm saying that from experience. Complete top and bottom end gaskets, block hot tank and hone, new bearings, assembly lubricants and sealants, new timing components, and 15 total quarts of break-in oil, and your $500 piston/rod package just turned into a $1200 overhaul. That leaves $800 of your budget for turbo and tune, which leaves you $400 max for just the turbo setup, and...that isn't even enough to get a quality turbo. Don't spitball it. Drill down the numbers. If you check my build thread, I actually have a spreadsheet that I used to do just that, and I posted it for someone such as yourself to use.

Guidance is exactly what we're giving you. It might not be what you want to hear, and it might not be playing into the narrative you wanted to follow, but that isn't how we do things. I'm glad you called a tuner. My guy set me up on Neptune as well. On that topic, since you're going with Neptune, you can also forget about the manual boost controller. Get a MAC solenoid, and run electronic boost control through the EMS.

Given your budget and goals, just forget about building the motor for now. You don't need to build the motor for 220, and your budget simply won't allow you to build for 250.

FakeVtecSticker

Well, the car is my daily driver (yes, I do have a second vehicle in the case that things go awry), and I plan on this being a work in progress over the next year or so. The reason I'm going with a T3-60 is that I'm getting one with very few miles on it for free, and I know the complete history of the vehicle it was on. That's what prompted me to go with the turbo vs. swap, because I already have a great turbo from the get-go. It may not be the ideal setup, but it's what I have available at my disposal.

Since I'm a college kid, I only need to drive about 1000 miles from August-May. The turbo and tune will go in with stock internals in August (risky, but it is what it is), and better internals, cam, and other improved pieces will come as I have more money to spend, probably over my 6-week winter break. Again, not an ideal way to do things, but I plan on treating the car gently until the entire build is finished.

I certainly am not spitballing it, I have made an Excel spreadsheet (what us business majors are good at) detailing the costs and timetable I'm working with. I have accounted for spark plugs and $300 in unexpected expenses/supplies, but I didn't account for oil, so I'll add that now. I actually did timing this past October, so that's something I need not worry about.

I understand and appreciate that a B swap could be cheaper, it's just not something I'm interested in at this time with this vehicle.

Could you answer two final questions for me?

1. Why would I run a MAC solenoid and run electronic boost control through the EMS rather than sticking with the manual boost controller? Is it a matter of compatibility with NepTune/making it easier for the tuner? I understand that it's probably the better option no matter what I'm running, but is it required for NepTune specifically?
2. You're not going to like this question. Could I make the 3 hour drive to my tuner without any sort of tune at all? Or will I have to use a basemap just to get it running? It doesn't need to run great, just enough to get me there. I can tow it if absolutely necessary.

I respect the amount of knowledge that you have shown on this topic, and to reiterate, I greatly appreciate that you've taken the time out of your day to respond to my questions (which to you are probably idiotic). I would be lost without this information.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

That turbo is still entirely too big, but whatever, if you're getting it free, then it is what it is. A free turbo would personally raise my eyebrows, though. There's nothing risky about running a turbo on stock internals, as long as you're running a quality tune. There is absolutely no reason a healthy stock Z6 can't handle 220 easily and safely. To the spitballing, detailing costs, and everything there, if you're only setting aside $300, you aren't setting aside enough for an engine build. Hot tank and hone can run anywhere from $50 to $250, depending on the machine shop. The Cometic top end kit is $170. ARP head studs are $165. Those three things alone are taking a huge chunk out of your budget. Then you have the other things mentioned, like bottom end gaskets, bearings, machine shop time to spec your block for bearings, machine shop labor to hone the block for new pistons if necessary, block and head decking...there's a whole shitload of work that goes into building a motor. Again, check my build thread. I go through the full process there, from oil pan to throttle body.

For the MAC solenoid, quite frankly, because it's flat out better, and only marginally more expensive. Manual boost controllers have one big issue, and that's seasonal changes. Ambient air pressure/density isn't constant - it fluctuates through the seasons, as it gets hotter and colder, or even as you drive up and down a mountain. With a manual boost controller, if you set it right to the edge of your tuned PSI, when the weather shifts, or you drive over a mountain, or whatever, suddenly you're hitting boost cut because you're overboosting, or you aren't hitting the full boost you're tuned for. It sucks. Believe you me, I've been there. With the MAC solenoid, it is directly controlled by the EMS, through the ECU, and opens and closes based on what the MAP sensor tells the ECU. It isn't required, but for the extra $20 or $30 it'll cost you to use over a cheap MBC, it's completely 100% worth it, and if you're looking at a nicer $100-$150 MBC, then the EBC will absolutely **** on it for cheaper.

For driving to your tuner, yes, you can. Contact Xenocron. Tell them exactly what you have. They'll cut you a basemap chip that you can pop into a ZIF socket in your ECU and use that to drive to your tuner ONLY. They do good work. I've trusted a few of my engines to them, and they've never let me down. If your ECU doesn't have a socket in it, they can also sell you a socketted ECU. If you have to go that route, ask them to add the stuff into the board that you'll need to run that EBC while you're at it, and just get it all done in one fell swoop.

Your questions aren't idiotic. You've actually put a little bit of effort into this before just expecting to be spoonfed, which is what 99% of the new posters around here do, so you're already better off than them. Just be ready to accept the limitations of your budget and personal decisions towards your swap. I did the same thing you did when I went for a built B instead of a K swap, I know what you've got going on.

FakeVtecSticker

Alright, I have my ducks in line and this has become a build thread. Please enjoy the Chaos.

safety switch

Looking forward to hearing more, good luck. Those are cool wheels, never seen them before on eBay.

FakeVtecSticker

thanks man. yeah, if you dig hard, there are eBay gems. I went directly through the manufacturer and got a crazy deal.

FakeVtecSticker

Installed Walbro 255 today. It was stupid easy. No need to remove seats or speaker/ rear window trim. Don't know why other online guides do it. Everything came out really nicely, the banjo bolt spat a lot of gas at me though, lol. The hardest part was fitting the 255 to the OEM fuel pump retainer. The hose was way too long, the pump didn't wanna sit right, I had to fab the rubber piece at the bottom of the OEM fuel pump to fit on the Walbro, and then zip tied the thing in. A lot of stuggling was involved. Overall, not too bad for a beginner, only took me about 2 hours and change. Pretty simple stuff. Would've taken pictures but there's already so many online. I don't know if I should've cut the hose/ bottom rubber piece to size, but it made me feel safer so I did. Head gasket tomorrow, probably won't be as easy...

FakeVtecSticker

Sunday, we ripped the motor apart. We threw in the new head gasket and head studs, and everything went pretty crazy. Took about 8 hours to get everything apart and 5 hours to get everything back together. I recommend being far more organized than I was during this process, as that is what mostly slowed us down. Again, not posting any guides as there are many, many easily found resources online. Monday, I got everything hooked back up.

Then, I installed my DSM 440cc injectors with 10W 10Ohm resistors inline (this is the cheap way to do things!), and had to dremel the injector clips to make it all work. I tightened the hell out of the fuel rail, and the injectors all work! Too well, actually. The car runs so rich that it won't start. That's ok. I thought the no-start condition was due to my inexperience and putting the motor back together incorrectly, so we wasted a lot of time messing with the distributor for no reason. Sucks, but these things happen when you're a newbie.

Tuesday, we found out the no start condition was simply because there was too much fuel going into the motor. We took this time to remove the ECU to mail to Xenocron for chipping/basemap and swapping in the new NGK 3330 plugs. Since I got the turbo today, we tried to mock everything up but ran out of time. Tomorrow, I plan on mocking everything up after mailing the ECU, dropping the oil pan, drilling it, and running all my oil lines. Optimistically, we can get the intercooler hooked up and bolt everything together, as well as running all the vacuum lines we need. The plan for Thursday is to finish any IC work that needs done, bolting everything up, and maybe hooking up my gauges or doing my turbo timer. I had to buy a valve cover gasket, a new socket, and a couple other little hardware things. Unexpected expenses are up to about $30. Hopefully, we can figure out oil routing without too much confusion.

FakeVtecSticker

Ok, folks, first real day of hell week was today. Had to take four separate trips to autozone/ hardware store, good thing they're only about 5 minutes down the road! Today, we installed the new exhaust manifold for real, the wastegate for real, and chucked the turbo on the bottom as well. In addition, since we got the intercooler in, we installed that as well. I had to delete the AC because there was no way that it could stay. The downpipe hit it, the intercooler hit it, everything hit it. Oh well. Convertibles don't need AC anyway. With the IC, we JBWeld'd the blow off valve on as well. I don't wanna hear anything about it. It's also ziptied for good measure. Not ideal, but I'm working with an extremely tight budget at the moment. I'm gonna upgrade things as money rolls in from my summer job. We also reused the stock air ram for the turbo air intake which looks pretty sweet in an over-the-top kind of way. We also managed to fiddle with the oil filter sandwich enough that it fit, but it took a lot of adjustment and accommodation to fit on nicely. If we had pulled the motor, I would have tapped the oil pressure sensor, but I didn't have that option unfortunately. I also put all the lines I think I need in for the manual boost controller and the BOV, but I'll do more research on that tonight. We pulled the oil pan as well and we'll be drilling that and installing the oil drain line on Friday. The oil feed line doesn't look good. None of the fittings from the eBay kit appear to fit on the turbo with pieces they provided. Overall, I'm really pleased with the progress we've made thus far, and with the ECU in the mail, I think we will be able to start it Monday. Also, we added a breather valve. I'm very pleased with our progress so far. Everything is moving very quickly and smoothly.

Tomorrow, I plan on trying to get the oil feed line to fit properly and maybe getting the turbo timer on. Maybe the boost gauge as well.

Friday, we can hopefully finish drilling the pan and setting the oil drain line and wiring up the boost gauge and turbo timer if I don't finish either of those tomorrow.

dylspil

sounding good, got any pics to go with the progress?