builtDseries

I more or less stumbled across this by accident but thought it should be shared. me and my friend both boosted our civic's mine a yseries his z6. they both lasted about 3 week on 10psi+. then i spun a rod and he blew a head gasket. when we tore apart the motors for rebuilding we found out why my rod bearing went. First there is only one oil galley on a y series rod journal. there are two on a z6. Second the z6 pump has larger gears, which means more flow. When rebuilding the motor i wanted to use my block cuz i didn't have to notch it. so. I rebuilt it w/ z6 crank and oil pump. just finished it bout to boost it again. I might put some pics on here it was really interesting. I want to know why honda did that, it's a horrible design.

Arthas

Something tells me they werent tuned.



amirite?

builthatch

dunno.

i had a high rpm/spray/high compression (12.5:1) y7 build for tens of thousands of miles. then i built a high rpm/high compression (12.3:1) y8 that ran like a charm for 70k miles until i parted it out - the engine was fine before the part out i just could not find anyone willing to pay for the engine as a whole.

this oiling thing has been a subject of much debate. there are many theories. fortunately for me i was able to endure more miles with high compression d16yX bottom ends than some people can get on totally stock d16whatever engines.

there might be some good banter about it on d-series.org too.

DCRB

ummmmmmmmmmm question o/p, how are you going to run the dip stick on a y8 block? the dipstick goes through the oil pump... just pointing that out before you throw it together.

as far as the oiling thing goes, i have read (like builthatch is talking about) debates about the oiling ports. but the reality is spun bearings usually come from oil starvation. which generally comes from a lack of oil pressure. low oil can make low oil pressure, and if you're redlining gears left and right and have low oil pressure poof there goes your bearings. atleast that is how i understand it.

D16SiHatch

haha good point. i didn't catch that

makes sense, but it seems to me anyway that i hear more about d16y# engines with spun bearings than z6's. personally i've seen/heard of numerous stories to back this up as well. now people who beat the crap out of there cars do it with both engines so i would think that in general both receive the same treatment overall. i suppose it could be possible that the number of d16y's vs. z6's spinning bearings is artificially inflated due simply to the knowledge that the z6 has an extra oiling port per rod. whether this difference actually has any effect on life expectancy of the bearings though i cannot say.

DCRB

well from what i've heard (i don't have the thread any more to back up what i'm about to type) is that the y pumps don't flow as well, or something to that effect. which is probably why people port the main oil passage and shim the pressure relief spring on y series pump to up the oil pressure to help prevent oil starvation.

but any ways, i do believe that the one oil passage vs. two could play a roll in how forgiving an engine can be when it comes to providing accurate amounts of oil to a bearing under various circumstances (high load, low oil level, etc.).
however if you think about this, d15's have the same style of crank as the y series do (single oiling ports), yet i don't see tons of my d15 spun a bearing thread.

basically what i'm trying to say is that all the motors i have seen torn apart, weather it be on the internet, at the junk yard or in my own home, the spun bearings, snapped rods, etc. came from user abuse, ie not checking and changing the oil when it needed to be done, allowing the engine to starve its self over time. obviously honda did testing on their motors before they released the y series into mass production, and concluded that with proper maintenance they would last as long as the older versions they replaced.

Hybrid96EK

The crank in the Y series sucks IMO. Run a Z6 crank in the Y8 block with the Y8 pump and you should be fine so long as your bearing clearances are in spec. I've had two of these setups and both have served me quite well. Currently running the second right now in the hatch on 10psi daily through a T3/T4 57 trim.

builtDseries

Yeah. i just noticed that now that i have the bottom end togather. lol. Talk about a lapse in judgement.

builtDseries

i have a motor whith no dipstick.

builtDseries

and also i wont be able to run a crank angle sensor... does anyone know what that does anyway? my cars always been runing w/o it.

builtDseries

They were tuned but our downfall was useing the cheap ebay boost controllers. not the ball and spring type, anotherwards crazy boost creep. but i have the right one now. greddy profec-b

EJeff8

So why the **** are you blaming oil passages? You blew your engine up to boost creep. This is pretty obvious to me once you said it.

builtDseries

You just missed the entire point of the thread. When pushed to far the y7 spun a bearing. but the z6 didn't.

EJeff8

When you push something too far, different **** can go at different times. This wasn't a controlled situation. Maybe you had more boost creep or are the worse driver?

We are starting this whole damn debate over again. And this thing has so many variables and human error that it's almost impossible to blame a damn oil passage.

Let's be rational mhk?

EDIT: Why did his gasket go but not yours HM?! Did yours have more steel when his has more impurities? DAMN YOU HONDA!

Hybrid96EK

There really is no reason that I see to run this damn Z6 pump that soo many people feel the need to install. Even the whole porting of the Y8 pump is, IMO, a waste of time. I have had two boosted Y8 setups with a brand new Y8 pump used on both. Both had Z6 cranks, never an issue. Huck the damn Z6 pump and put a dipstick back in your engine. This is just completely assanying...

The crank angle sensor is used by the stock OBD2 ECU to sense misfires. If you aren't running the OBD2 ECU and have no reason to ever use the OBD2 ECU then don't worry about it. But to not have a dipstick? Come on.

D16SiHatch

^crankshaft fluctuation sensor (ckf) on the oil pump btw

builtDseries

Would the "ckf" sensor detect preignition cause i could use that when tuning. I also have a dummy light hooked up to the knock sensor but that could be handy.

Hybrid96EK

No.. Thats not what its for.. And the stock knock sensor is worthless. If your engine is built, don't be relying on what you "hear" from the stock knock sensor. Full floating engine with forged internals will be setting that thing off left and right.

builtDseries

well i have full floating pistons and eagle rods. What am i supposed to use then?

builthatch

stock KS is pretty buff dude. i used it with my apexi powerfc for monitoring and it was very accurate. the problem was the scale was arbitrary, just a scale that apexi decided, but if you learned it, it would become a very useful tool.

i'd trust it with headphones or something that can accurately show the scaled voltage.

Hybrid96EK

Its not that its not "buff"... just picks up the knocks you get with a full floating engine. In my opinion, its not that accurate with these setups. I always ran with it disabled for these reasons... I also never really messed with my timing maps, left them mainly stock.

d16y8turbo

I've never spun a bearing in 7 ish years of 15+ psi. It's all in the tune and changing your oil...i have however blown multiple head gaskets, even with arp head studs.