JarvisW

So, I just thought back to messing with my engine last few weeks and realised the pulley is different from the one my dad has.

So, I looked it up and I was right! I'm supposed to have #18, but I have #17!

I just put his old belts on, until I get mine in, and they all fit, work and are properly tight.

My question is, could having one of these two piece pulleys on there be causing part of my rough feeling idle? Now its down to 750~ its better, but my glovebox still shakes at idle and certian RPMs thinking I have a harmonics problem.. Well.. Pulley/HARMONIC balancer?? (or do they all work equally well, and I'm just overthinking things?)

Honda Automotive Parts

hondur

iTrader: (1)

Hows your distributor timing? The pulleys don't have the same markings.

Your rough idle is more than likely a misfire, destroying your engine from the inside out.

p.s. most people agree that #17 is better than #18, but if you're putting the former on the latter's engine, you need to fix the timing issue or else your distributor won't be timed right.

Of course, your engine could be modded and the factory distributor timing markings may be wrong in either case.

JarvisW

Ah, thats prob why I can't get it timed all the way. It lines up with the far left one but cant get it any further to the middle line.

Guess I need to time with a digital light then.

Im not sure its a misfire, but it might be a knock at higher RPM. :/

JarvisW

The Mechanical timing was spot on or just a mm off.. BUT if the TDC mark isnt the same then maybe its off? (tho, I checked the piston and it was at least really close to that mark, but I was trusting it to be the right one, and not looking to be exact.

hondur

iTrader: (1)

nah, not the camshaft timing. Idk if you used the marking on the pulley and the cover, but you could've used the oil pump and the sprocket and then it would be fine and the pulley wouldn't matter. I think both pulleys have the same camshaft timing anyway.

I'm referring to the distributor timing. The distributor timing marks are different from pulley to pulley. If you click on my name, then statistics, then threads started by hondur, you'll see one about pulleys. I have all the info you need in that thread.

JarvisW

Yeah, I used the Pulley and cover. I AM going to do a timing belt, but would like to do it when I pull the engine to do a clutch. 180k, time to do a lot of stuff that I'm not sure has ever been done before lol.

I'll ck that out. You posted in my FITV thread, and it would have helped to know I had the wrong pulley when I was in the middle of it lol.


ALSO makes sense that they goofed up the pulleys, because it seemed they didn't tension the timing belt right (so it MIGHT have been replaced, but what about the WP/ etc??)

JarvisW

Well, the "timing marks/pulley, y7 into z6" thread?

I got two points from it, one is I need to make my own mark, the other was pay $130 for a new correct one.

Did you move on from there? Ever get a pic of them side by side?

Thanks

hondur

iTrader: (1)

I don't think i ever replied to your thread. Maybe i did and deleted it?

It's a Y8 pulley, not y7, but they might be the same so that could be irrelevant. Anyway, yeah, that's the thread i was talking about. Give it a read, it'l prolly help ya out.

I never did anything else with it, i still need to file the new marks and put JB weld or something in the old ones. I never took a picture of them either, I might update the thread with that and the info Ron asked about too. Eventually.

JarvisW

lol. ok.

If I can find my dads pulley, I may just use it, to either swap, or get marks from.

Or, I'll buy one local..

Or, I'll buy a digital light.

(if I use dads, I'll have to replace it when we finish his build)

hondur

iTrader: (1)

I don't think the timing light is going to make a difference, the distrubtor timing marks on the pulley is what makes the difference.

Trying to copy the marks isn't the best option IMO, if you read the thread there's information about filing the new marks in and what some of the guys figure is the best way to do it.

Using a proper z6 pulley isn't all that bad of a way to go IMO, there's probably a very very small gain in using the y8 pulley and if the work involved in filing new distributor timing marks is too complicate, the proper pulley is probably the better way to go. I don't really think it's complicated, you should be able to do it

JarvisW

Well, a variable timing light would go off the TDC mark when set to the proper timing numbers.

And I'd prob just paint it to get a mark on there, then change it later for a Z6 one when I do the belt etc.

hondur

iTrader: (1)

The light I use ain't that fancy, i've never even seen one that good. It just connects to a plug to measure idle, and then flashes on the distributor markings. Not the TDC markings used for camshaft timing.

I like painting the filed mark, rather than just rely on one or the other.

JarvisW

The other pulley is at the machine shop with the crank I think, so I may get an adj light at Harbor Freight.

I hate wasting even $30 when I have 2 lights (hated buying the 2nd one when I couldnt find the first one, then found first one soon after, of course!) but, if the engine isnt running right, that will cost more in the long run anyway lol..

JarvisW

I got an advance timing light at HF, and even tho the dial is a lil loose on it, I set it at 16 degrees and checked it.

It was timed to the one just to the right of the (wrong) pulley's TDC, so I adjusted it back just a tad to the WHITE TDC, and locked it down.

It instantly had more power and seemed to idle smoother!

I did about an 8-9sec 0-60 and wasnt raspy in the mid range like before.

SO, even being only about 2-3 degrees off, that made a HUGE difference. I'm going to adjust the idle and then timing again tomorrow, as its now running about 775+ rmps and it needs to be in the mid 6s since its a manual.

If anything else comes up I'll update.

JarvisW

Well, I'm a lil concerned about where the timing was set. It CAN'T be right! Light set at 16deg TDC at marks. Then I checked it with the normal light and it ends up between the TDC marks and the timing marks!

So, I did some crude math, and came up with appx 25" in diameter. Divide that by 360, multiply by 16 and I get 0.9 in.

That number puts me between the 2nd and 3rd mark, so the Advance light is only about half way to that point.

So, am I overthinking this, and the y7/8 pulley is ok, and I should just time to the far left (which it wont do) or take the light back and try another?

(I have to go 40 mi to nearest HF to return it, and don't want to risk detonation!)

JarvisW

Ok, now I see replacement pulleys, DORMAN 594214, look almost (its not gold/black, just all black) the same as whats on it!

So, why won't it time with a normal light then??

It goes just right of the far left mark and no closer. Checked mech timing and has proper dist as far as it looks. (is there a # I should look for?) (but this is also where I calculated the 16deg would be appx too...)

TomCat39

How did you come up with your diameter?

I used a clothing tape measure to physically measure my pulley.

25/360=.069444444

.06944444*16=1.11 inches

That still seems rather short so I believe your diameter is a bit off. You actually need to measure the circumference of the pulley where the markers are stamped in.

JarvisW

I used a cloth tape too. I don't remember the # I got, but it worked out to that above.

Maybe it was 24.5. Either way, the pulley and belts were still on the car, and was just trying to see if the POS HF Timing light was anywhere NEAR accurate.. (it wasnt)

So, now I took it back, and ran it as close to the middle line that I can, I can retard it some, but thats as far as it can advance. your 1.1" would put it almost outside the far left mark i think, but thats fine if its right, just not sure it will adjust to there.

The question is now I guess, do I have the #18 replacement and not a #17 from a y7/8? Or are they ALL THE SAME and this is a wild goose chase?

Honda Automotive Parts

TomCat39

#17 has a rubber ring compressed in the middle. #18 looks to be the solid metal piece with no rubber damper. I believe that is also why it's said #17 is superior as it has the damper to reduce harmonics.

Measuring with the belts on the car I believe is your issue. I wasn't able to get accurate readings trying to measure with the pulley on the car.

JarvisW

Right, my dad's has the #18 and it is solid. Unfortunately its at the machine shop with the rest of his engine, so I can't measure it.

If anyone has both loose, mind doing a quick look for us? Thanks

Also, since Denso's replacement for this engine looks just like #17, then maybe it IS the same and I'm just paranoid or something lol.

It still had a raspy spot or two on acceleration, but overall seemed to like being close to the mid mark.

Hmmm