d16z6 build suggestions
06-27-2012, 01:52 PM
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d16z6 build suggestions
ok so I picked up this hatch with a D15Z1 and within a few days the transmission took a dump
so I bought a D16z6 that has low compression with a tranny
Just got done swapping the tranny in gonna drive it like this for now
I want to take my time on the z6 and build it right.
I dont have any engine building experience but my brother does mainly in old chevy 350's etc
Now I can easily get his help an excellent honda engine manual and follow specs and sequences.
So heres my question
Im not gonna spend some crazy amount on a turbo kit
its more than likely gonna be a used greddy kit or something rasonable
Id like to see between 200-225 hp
I believe thats a reasonable goal
I dont want to have to constantly tune the engine or have it breaking down all the time
I would be willing to go for less HP if this is an issue
I know rods are the weakest link
so what will I need to achieve this?
what brand rods are decent?
vitara pistons? what injectors? P28 tuned by a shop on dyno of course
walbro pump?
what will need to be done to the block itself
etc?
so I bought a D16z6 that has low compression with a tranny
Just got done swapping the tranny in gonna drive it like this for now
I want to take my time on the z6 and build it right.
I dont have any engine building experience but my brother does mainly in old chevy 350's etc
Now I can easily get his help an excellent honda engine manual and follow specs and sequences.
So heres my question
Im not gonna spend some crazy amount on a turbo kit
its more than likely gonna be a used greddy kit or something rasonable
Id like to see between 200-225 hp
I believe thats a reasonable goal
I dont want to have to constantly tune the engine or have it breaking down all the time
I would be willing to go for less HP if this is an issue
I know rods are the weakest link
so what will I need to achieve this?
what brand rods are decent?
vitara pistons? what injectors? P28 tuned by a shop on dyno of course
walbro pump?
what will need to be done to the block itself
etc?
06-27-2012, 07:54 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
something you should look at doin is Vitara pistons, eagle rods combo, works wonders, alot of people hitting 12's with them. and 225hp should be no problem, im doing about the same HP range as you and doing my research, helps alot man.
06-28-2012, 02:38 AM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
Basically this. New head studs, maybe ACL bearings, make sure everything is correctly within spec, and a stock D16 can definitely handle 200. A CP/Carillo rod/piston package can push you to 300. Beyond that, you should either look into sleeving, or make sure your tuner is a track-tested champion at what he does.
06-28-2012, 12:30 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
I have an awesome tuner in my area, he has been at it for years and lots of rep
I mean anyone would want MORE POWER
I just threw out 200 because I dont want my car breaking down every week and having to be retuned I want it super reliable
If I could squeeze 225 -250 out of it that would rule
keep in mind Im prolly gonna go with a greddy kit or something similar
a good basic turbo all I can get out of safely
IM open to turbo kit suggestions just would like to find a good setup within the 600-1000 range
I mean anyone would want MORE POWER
I just threw out 200 because I dont want my car breaking down every week and having to be retuned I want it super reliable
If I could squeeze 225 -250 out of it that would rule
keep in mind Im prolly gonna go with a greddy kit or something similar
a good basic turbo all I can get out of safely
IM open to turbo kit suggestions just would like to find a good setup within the 600-1000 range
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06-29-2012, 08:50 AM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
I see greddy kits for about 700-1000 all the time
a tune costs about $300
I know its gonna cost some but I want it reliable I am not keen on breaking down all the time lol
a tune costs about $300
I know its gonna cost some but I want it reliable I am not keen on breaking down all the time lol
06-29-2012, 08:55 AM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
Here's the exact post I just made for someone else that thought they could pull off a reliable turbo build for $1,500.
Wrong. In super oversimplified terms, there are three parts to a turbo kit. The Air side, which is all bolt on and what the shops (and Ebay) sell you, the Fuel side, where the tune can make or break your build, and then there's the Engine side and how much power it can handle and whether it need to be rebuilt to handle the power you want to make. All you noobs think about is just the air side of the build and trying to go fast,make X power, and impress your friends and neglect the fuel side as if it were an afterthought. This is why you cannot be spoonfed this information like some people are trying to do for you. Because when they do, you learn NOTHING.
So FIRST thing you need to ask yourself is;
What power do I want to make and WHY?
Don't pull a random number out of your *** or think because that Rustang makes 400hp you have to make 450 to beat him. It don't work that way.
Second question;
What's your budget?
Is it realistic? Noobs seems to think that they can make that 400hp on a measly budget of $1,500. That seems to be your magic number. Sorry to tell you, some turbos cost nearly that. Don't forget to budget in all kind of miscellaneous stuff you didn't think of, like a new clutch to hold all the brand new torque you're going to make. Gauges to monitor what you're build is doing. Etc.
Third question;
Am I building up the engine?
If the answer is No then you're limited by the strength of the internals as to what power you can make. If you don't even know THAT power limit then go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Fourth question;
How do I get to my goal?
Read and research. Look at similar builds. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. Know what parts work, and how they work with each other.
Fifth question;
Who's tuning it?
A basemap is not a tune. Get a real EMS and get a real tune. That is, if you want to do it right. Most people half-*** it at this point and run their Ebay chip and wonder why it runs like crap.
I'm sure there are many many more points you can touch on but those are what I think are most important. Anyone, and I mean anyone that tries to "help" you when you are unable to answer those questions, isn't helping you.
So FIRST thing you need to ask yourself is;
What power do I want to make and WHY?
Don't pull a random number out of your *** or think because that Rustang makes 400hp you have to make 450 to beat him. It don't work that way.
Second question;
What's your budget?
Is it realistic? Noobs seems to think that they can make that 400hp on a measly budget of $1,500. That seems to be your magic number. Sorry to tell you, some turbos cost nearly that. Don't forget to budget in all kind of miscellaneous stuff you didn't think of, like a new clutch to hold all the brand new torque you're going to make. Gauges to monitor what you're build is doing. Etc.
Third question;
Am I building up the engine?
If the answer is No then you're limited by the strength of the internals as to what power you can make. If you don't even know THAT power limit then go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Fourth question;
How do I get to my goal?
Read and research. Look at similar builds. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. Know what parts work, and how they work with each other.
Fifth question;
Who's tuning it?
A basemap is not a tune. Get a real EMS and get a real tune. That is, if you want to do it right. Most people half-*** it at this point and run their Ebay chip and wonder why it runs like crap.
I'm sure there are many many more points you can touch on but those are what I think are most important. Anyone, and I mean anyone that tries to "help" you when you are unable to answer those questions, isn't helping you.
06-29-2012, 11:46 AM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
I have $700 into my kit including Neptune RTP. All I need is fuel and tune but I'm going with a different setup now. I would have had my car fully boosted on a T25 for right around a grand into the whole thing.
06-29-2012, 11:48 AM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
That's good for you. So how about you post up what was in your kit and how much each component actually costs rather than saying that you can do it? When you do you'll probably see that most of your build is actually 2nd and possibly third hand parts or maybe even freebies and that you will have to do all of the install work, including tuning, yourself. Is the clutch, the gauges and wideband included in all that? I don't count junkyard builds as reliable. Broad statements like yours don't help the OP or anyone like him.
maybe this is where you guys need to be posting.
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/
maybe this is where you guys need to be posting.
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/
06-29-2012, 11:55 AM
#13
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
It's been done many times and can be done all day every day with ease. Just because you can't put together a reliable build for $1,500 doesn't mean other members can't.
I have $700 into my kit including Neptune RTP. All I need is fuel and tune but I'm going with a different setup now. I would have had my car fully boosted on a T25 for right around a grand into the whole thing.
I have $700 into my kit including Neptune RTP. All I need is fuel and tune but I'm going with a different setup now. I would have had my car fully boosted on a T25 for right around a grand into the whole thing.
06-29-2012, 12:01 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
That's good for you. So how about you post up what was in your kit and how much each component actually costs rather than saying that you can do it? When you do you'll probably see that most of your build is actually 2nd and possibly third hand parts or maybe even freebies and that you will have to do all of the install work, including tuning, yourself. Is the clutch, the gauges and wideband included in all that? I don't count junkyard builds as reliable. Broad statements like yours don't help the OP or anyone like him.
FMIC Piping, boost gauge, proform shift light - $80
Neptune RTP - $300 (I added my virgin P28)
T25 Turbo w/ hf manifold, adapter plate, o2 housing - $90
1G BOV already welded to the charge piping - $0
T-Clamps and couplers - Left over
So yeah really all that is missing is downpipe, fuel, oil lines and tune. So I have ~$530 so far and I'm sure I'm missing a couple of other things. I've put together 3-4 turbo kits like this for cheap as hell. Even if I didn't go Neptune, I traded a spare BOV I had for a socketed P28 straight up so chrome would have been free/extremely cheap but I wanted tuning software actually worth a damn.
Even if you bought all brand new...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140530563896...ht_8029wt_1163
$600 for a decent kit, factor in your fuel, tuning software, tune and a couple other things, you're right around $1-1500. Hell you can even get something smaller for cheaper as well. Wlabro 255 is only $90 and if you go DSM 450s that is what, 50 bucks if that? Even if you went NIB RCs, that'd only be ~$200. Wire in a resistor box from the junkyard, 3-5 bucks at most. So there you go, junkyard and BRAND NEW builds for under $1500...
06-29-2012, 12:02 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
I'm going with a different setup because I want more power and I'm willing to dish out a lot more money than I invested in my budget build. Every penny from my Si is going to boost and rebuilding my VX. Plus I went with the T25 build when this car was going to be a daily driver still. My VX will replace this as my DD so I'm willing to go bigger and increase my chances of breaking things.
Oh yeah OP - I would keep the Z1 and find a shell for your Z6 IMO. Lot of people want those Z1s and the MPG is great. I wouldn't dare dream of ripping the z1 out of my VX for a Z6 but my Coupe already has a Z6 in it fortunately.
Oh yeah OP - I would keep the Z1 and find a shell for your Z6 IMO. Lot of people want those Z1s and the MPG is great. I wouldn't dare dream of ripping the z1 out of my VX for a Z6 but my Coupe already has a Z6 in it fortunately.
06-29-2012, 12:05 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
Like I said, a second/third hand build with some freebies thrown in with inadequate monitoring devices and no clutch or tune (mentioned but not priced) factored in.
And you couldn't PAY me to put that Ebay **** on my car. HARDLY a "decent" kit.
And you couldn't PAY me to put that Ebay **** on my car. HARDLY a "decent" kit.
06-29-2012, 12:07 PM
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06-29-2012, 12:10 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
Anything that I possibly forgot, would still be covered in the $1500 budget...
06-29-2012, 12:13 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
Forgot about the clutch because my car already came with one. Inadeaute monitor devices?! What is wrong with Neptune I am DYING TO KNOW. What freebies? The only freebies I listed were the socketed P28 (which I'm not using) and the couplers/t-clamps. Also, THIS ISN'T YOU! This is somebody else's build. Just because you wouldn't put that "ebay ****" on your car doesn't mean he's not willing to. I've heard of more people having good luck with eBay kits rather than bad. Worst case scenario your cheap turbo blows out, replace it with a better and well reputable one. The rest of the kit is completely fine, the turbo is really the only weaker link in the eBay turbo kits.
Anything that I possibly forgot, would still be covered in the $1500 budget...
Anything that I possibly forgot, would still be covered in the $1500 budget...
How are you supposed to monitor AFRs at a glance? What about oil pressure? Oil, boost and AFRs are the MINIMUM you should be running!!! I'm guessing you can get UEGO's free too?
A shift light? I think I just pissed myself.
Do you think P28s just drop out of the sky free of charge for everyone?
Don't see where you mentioned how much your tune was going to run you either.
And you low budget ballers can run that Ebay Russian Roulette crap on your cars if you want. The day your turbo grenades and get sucked into the engine you'll kick yourself.
Don't assume people are as willing to cut corners as some of you people choose to do.
06-29-2012, 12:26 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
Does the OP have an upgraded clutch in place? Nice of you to assume that for him. THIS ISN'T YOU!
How are you supposed to monitor AFRs at a glance? What about oil pressure? Oil, boost and AFRs are the MINIMUM you should be running!!! I'm guessing you can get UEGO's free too?
A shift light? I think I just pissed myself.
Do you think P28s just drop out of the sky free of charge for everyone?
Don't see where you mentioned how much your tune was going to run you either.
And you low budget ballers can run that Ebay Russian Roulette crap on your cars if you want. The day your turbo grenades and get sucked into the engine you'll kick yourself.
Don't assume people are as willing to cut corners as some of you people choose to do.
How are you supposed to monitor AFRs at a glance? What about oil pressure? Oil, boost and AFRs are the MINIMUM you should be running!!! I'm guessing you can get UEGO's free too?
A shift light? I think I just pissed myself.
Do you think P28s just drop out of the sky free of charge for everyone?
Don't see where you mentioned how much your tune was going to run you either.
And you low budget ballers can run that Ebay Russian Roulette crap on your cars if you want. The day your turbo grenades and get sucked into the engine you'll kick yourself.
Don't assume people are as willing to cut corners as some of you people choose to do.
The shift light was basically free and I am selling it on Ebay because Neptune obviously has the CEL shift light making this thing worthless to me. But hey I can get $40 out of that light and it pretty much pays for all my charge piping.
No I don't think P28s are free for everybody, that's WHY I SAID I PAID $300 for Neptune. I didn't even mention the tune because I'm personal friends with a few shop owners in Kansas City and they will hook it up for me. I have no idea what tuners in other areas are going to try and charge these people but if I had to ballpark it I would say $200 for a decent street tune.
Turbo grenades and gets sucked up into the engine? LOL
If you think this is cutting corners.. well you haven't been around long enough to really see some jank setups being put together.
06-29-2012, 12:32 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
Gauges are what, $100 at the most for oil pressure/boost. An LC1 is $160. Did I not say anything I MISSED could be included in that price range? I didn't assume anything, you asked about MY SETUP and I said I forgot to even factory a clutch in it because MY SETUP already had one.
The shift light was basically free and I am selling it on Ebay because Neptune obviously has the CEL shift light making this thing worthless to me. But hey I can get $40 out of that light and it pretty much pays for all my charge piping.
No I don't think P28s are free for everybody, that's WHY I SAID I PAID $300 for Neptune. I didn't even mention the tune because I'm personal friends with a few shop owners in Kansas City and they will hook it up for me. I have no idea what tuners in other areas are going to try and charge these people but if I had to ballpark it I would say $200 for a decent street tune.
Turbo grenades and gets sucked up into the engine? LOL
If you think this is cutting corners.. well you haven't been around long enough to really see some jank setups being put together.
The shift light was basically free and I am selling it on Ebay because Neptune obviously has the CEL shift light making this thing worthless to me. But hey I can get $40 out of that light and it pretty much pays for all my charge piping.
No I don't think P28s are free for everybody, that's WHY I SAID I PAID $300 for Neptune. I didn't even mention the tune because I'm personal friends with a few shop owners in Kansas City and they will hook it up for me. I have no idea what tuners in other areas are going to try and charge these people but if I had to ballpark it I would say $200 for a decent street tune.
Turbo grenades and gets sucked up into the engine? LOL
If you think this is cutting corners.. well you haven't been around long enough to really see some jank setups being put together.
06-29-2012, 12:35 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
Next time, list a setup setup that can be readily duplicated by anyone and not just the Monte Halls of H-T and Hondaland.
Can budget builds be done? Hell yeah.
Are janky builds like yours done all the time? Hell yeah but there are a lot of people that still like to do it right.
Do it over though. I had to correct a typo.
06-29-2012, 12:59 PM
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Re: d16z6 build suggestions
If you want a REAL budget build layout, let me know. I put together my setup for just shy of $1500, I have it tuned to just shy of 200whp, and I'm fairly confident no one here (Grumble included 
) would call it halfass. I don't play with that - You'll always see me posting "It wouldn't go in my engine, it doesn't go anywhere on my car."
) would call it halfass. I don't play with that - You'll always see me posting "It wouldn't go in my engine, it doesn't go anywhere on my car."
