d16y8 with pm3 pistons question ..
02-22-2012, 07:36 PM
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d16y8 with pm3 pistons question ..
Hey just curious, anyone ever ran pm3 pistons in a d16y8 w/ a y8 head? I wana run pm3 pistons in my motor but I'm unsure if ill have enough clearance with the valves not hitting and not hitting during vtec engagement. Any help and info would be greatly appreciated.
02-23-2012, 04:26 AM
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Re: d16y8 with pm3 pistons question ..
Looky here.
https://www.google.com/search?q=d16y...ient=firefox-a
This is the first result in the Google search.
Try a real search next time.
https://www.google.com/search?q=d16y...ient=firefox-a
This is the first result in the Google search.
install pm3 pistons and use a shim (mock headgasket) that is .060" thick and cut the cylinder holes in it so the pistons will pass through. torque down the head and crank it over by hand with some clay on the piston domes. this will tell you a ton!
endyn engine building articles recommends .040" minimum piston to HEAD clearance (this is an issue since pm3's will come out of the hole up into the combustion chamber so make sure your pm3's will fit up into the CC) keep all of that in mind for the final size of the headgasket.
the clay will tell you the piston to valve clearance.
if youre good and within recommended building margins then use a .060" headgasket, if you need more room to clear p2v then go thicker. cometic or bisimoto can set you up with a custom thickness gasket.
other issues:
-the valve reliefs on the piston dome will need enlarged because the valves in a d16 head move down toward the piston in differently than in a d15 (which the pm3's are designed for).
-account for some rod stretch in all calculations (.040" for forged rods, .045" for stock with ARP rod bolts)
-account for the higher lift and duration of the aftermarket cam you will need to bleed off some of the compression.
-check final compression readings a few times on the calculator
-measure and make sure the ring lands wont be too close to the flame inside the CC
get a good set of rings, have them coated, piston dome and skirt coating would be great insurance as well.
finally...when using a thick head gasket take into account changes in timing as well as the fact that ARP head studs should be used for more clamping power. when the head is moved further from the block, warping can occur. the best bet would be to have the head and block decked the absolute minimum so you have solid flat surfaces to start with.
endyn engine building articles recommends .040" minimum piston to HEAD clearance (this is an issue since pm3's will come out of the hole up into the combustion chamber so make sure your pm3's will fit up into the CC) keep all of that in mind for the final size of the headgasket.
the clay will tell you the piston to valve clearance.
if youre good and within recommended building margins then use a .060" headgasket, if you need more room to clear p2v then go thicker. cometic or bisimoto can set you up with a custom thickness gasket.
other issues:
-the valve reliefs on the piston dome will need enlarged because the valves in a d16 head move down toward the piston in differently than in a d15 (which the pm3's are designed for).
-account for some rod stretch in all calculations (.040" for forged rods, .045" for stock with ARP rod bolts)
-account for the higher lift and duration of the aftermarket cam you will need to bleed off some of the compression.
-check final compression readings a few times on the calculator
-measure and make sure the ring lands wont be too close to the flame inside the CC
get a good set of rings, have them coated, piston dome and skirt coating would be great insurance as well.
finally...when using a thick head gasket take into account changes in timing as well as the fact that ARP head studs should be used for more clamping power. when the head is moved further from the block, warping can occur. the best bet would be to have the head and block decked the absolute minimum so you have solid flat surfaces to start with.
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02-23-2012, 06:12 PM
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Re: d16y8 with pm3 pistons question ..
There's not too many other options of pistons for it to bump the comp. Up a lil bit, I mean I could run d16a6 pistons but I guess there's still a chance of work to b done to the reliefs on the pistons for valve clearance.
02-23-2012, 06:24 PM
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Re: d16y8 with pm3 pistons question ..
I believe if you run P2E pistons you can run a higher compression due to the pistons being dished instead of domed/flat (I read somewhere that the shape of the piston top allows the heat in the CC to disperse better preventing pre-ignition while allowing a higher CR-on regular gas-as well as allowing more valve clearance because they are dished.)
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here
^^;
Then again, depending on how much mill work is done, the P2P pistons should give you enough valve clearance as well (about 5 mm more than the PM3's)
The P2E will give you an additional 1.2 mm clearance over the P2P (at least going by dome height. Idk what the actual valve relief depths are on each piston though; only going by dome height here so if someone can provide that info, be my guest ^^ )
More info here:
http://www.zealautowerks.com/dseries.html
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here
^^;
Then again, depending on how much mill work is done, the P2P pistons should give you enough valve clearance as well (about 5 mm more than the PM3's)
The P2E will give you an additional 1.2 mm clearance over the P2P (at least going by dome height. Idk what the actual valve relief depths are on each piston though; only going by dome height here so if someone can provide that info, be my guest ^^ )
More info here:
http://www.zealautowerks.com/dseries.html
Last edited by Texas4door; 02-23-2012 at 06:44 PM.
03-27-2012, 07:34 AM
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Re: d16y8 with pm3 pistons question ..
I have ran into the same here at my shop customer had a D16Y7 bad crank and some Y8 pistons to throw back in , he saw that i had a set of PM3`s sitting out and wanted to know if those would fit, and what would his power be with those installed . So i have been looking all over the net and calling other builders to get some feed back and this is what i have found out.
yes they will work ......BUT......
1. you will need to enlarge and angle the valve reliefs on the PM3`s they are smaller 29 intake. 25 exhaust. vs 30 / 26 on on your standard y7 z6 y5 y8 valves
2. if your using the D16 rods with the PM3 piston yes you will have a negative .028 in or .07mm protrusion from the deck. this can be fixed if you use a larger head gasket . final measurement with clay with a stock .030 y7 head gasket pm3 pistons and stock D16 rods was .008mm of valve to piston clearance with no modifications to pistons or head or deck.......
and .008 is too damn close you will hit a valve after things stretch and heat up it will be nasty and you will have wasted alot of time.
So can it be done yes. cost effective after machined pistons not really . headaches yes , asprin required hell yes. this will also require a tune in order to run proper . if would be alot better to just buy some domed pistons
yes they will work ......BUT......
1. you will need to enlarge and angle the valve reliefs on the PM3`s they are smaller 29 intake. 25 exhaust. vs 30 / 26 on on your standard y7 z6 y5 y8 valves
2. if your using the D16 rods with the PM3 piston yes you will have a negative .028 in or .07mm protrusion from the deck. this can be fixed if you use a larger head gasket . final measurement with clay with a stock .030 y7 head gasket pm3 pistons and stock D16 rods was .008mm of valve to piston clearance with no modifications to pistons or head or deck.......
and .008 is too damn close you will hit a valve after things stretch and heat up it will be nasty and you will have wasted alot of time.
So can it be done yes. cost effective after machined pistons not really . headaches yes , asprin required hell yes. this will also require a tune in order to run proper . if would be alot better to just buy some domed pistons
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