09chaplak

So, I spent the better part of the weekend tearing down my car to put some goodies in. 1998 Civic EX, D16Y8 now with Crower retainers, keepers and springs to handle a Skunk2 Tuner Series 2 Cam and pro series adjustable cam gear (please let's stay on the topic of my problem and not my choice of parts). Gear came shipped at roughly 4.75 degrees retarded, since it's also made to fit the Z6. Makes sense. So I fit everything in the top end, set to TDC (As marked by manufacturer) and fit the bottom end to TDC. Strapped everything together, torqued down to spec and tensioned the belt properly. Properly as in crank pulley first, then tensioner, then water pump then gear. Rotate three sprockets of the crank counter clock and tighten tensioner bolt. Rotated by hand and nothing was binding, no irregular noises of any kind. Valve lash was done to spec afterwards.

Here's the kicker, started it up and it sounded like the belt was slapping the belt cover. Seriously, that's what it sounded like. The noise was coming from the right side of the car, my initial thought was belt slapping the cover. Took the cover off, put everything back together without it, and it still makes the sound. I am very skeptical about P2V problems, as I compression tested the first two cylinders and 180 on both. Yea, I didn't test the other two because the noise is coming from the timing belt area. I assume.......that would hint if a valve was bent. I even took the exhaust header off and stuck a flashlight in and rotated the engine. Valves seem to be closing without any problems.

So my theory is it's off a tooth. But how the eff can I tell which way it's off? It's an adjustable cam gear and everything lines up timing wise. I'm very stuck. Pulling the head off is the last step I want to take but it may be necessary.

Any thoughts?

Cliffs: Upgraded valvetrain, S2 tuner 2 cam and adjustable gear. Sounds like belt slapping but it's not, feels like it's off a tooth. How can I verify if it is off a tooth, which way? Also, CEL came on for CFK so I cleared it and it only pops up about a minute after running the car.

tony_2018

What? You didn't bother to check if the timing marks were lined up and decided to start your car?

09chaplak

Timing marks were checked while performing the valve lash. Everything lined up before I started the car. Lines are still intact.

tony_2018

I believe they need to be worn in, I do recall some youtube videos of people breaking in there new valve springs and what not could sound similar

09chaplak

I have tinkered with the cam gear a little, nothing crazy and no matter where the gear is, the noise is still apparent. Hopefully this is the case, I will search for some related videos and comments. Thanks Tony.

tony_2018

Talk to the manufacture, thats what I would've done.

Jimi Hondrix

Probably need to re-tension the timing belt. Mine made a similar sound when I did head gasket replacement.. once I re-tensioned the timing belt the noise went away.

09chaplak

Redid the belt twice, but I suppose third time could be the charm.

Jimi Hondrix

Long-shot but here it goes: Is the new cam gear you installed the exact same size (radius) as the previous one?
If, the new cam gear is smaller it may make the current belt impossible to tighten properly.

09chaplak

Fairly certain it's the same size. I sized them up when I first got it and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary or that scared me enough not to put it in.

Jimi Hondrix

It's hindsight now and not trying to bust ***** but, what reason(s) did you buy and install these parts for?
Looking to boost it at some point in time?

tony_2018

Feel like bustin ***** today


OP I want pictures showing EXACT MEASUREMENTS of both the oem and the adjustable cam gear.

09chaplak

haha bust all you want and to be completely hones, it's a fun car. Nothing crazy, I just have it to learn. It's a hobby so nothing is expected to come from this, it's not a build it's just me putting various parts in it.

I got you Tony, when I get home I'll snap some pics for you.

Jimi Hondrix

Well, I asked because on a daily or weekly basis a newb will come in asking how to increase HP with bolt-on parts. This is soon followed by NotARaCist (NARC), Deschlong (TheCock), and a host of others that tell the newb to (usually in a harsh way and deservedly so) first read the Sticky's and FAQ's that clearly state to avoid bolt on to increase HP.
So, if you did it for naturally aspirated HP gains..congratulations for throwing away money.
If you did it for need of repair or prep for a turbo setup then you might be spared the blasting you will most likely encounter from others here.

09chaplak

haha I'm very well aware of the blasting most get for bolt on parts, hence the reference to keep on topic of my problem and not my parts that I choose in my OP. I'm still waiting for Nota and/or Ron to jump on in here.

Thanks for the heads up though. Some may call it throwing away money but I just enjoy tearing into the car and learning new things. Turbo might be in the future but for now this is what I choose.

P.S. - If I can't even put in cams and a gear, in no way am I ready to go forced induction on any vehicle.

Jimi Hondrix

I hear ya. I stick with a stock ride as much as possible. Would like to drive a boosted Civic ..just not willing to try it out mechanically or financially on mine.

09chaplak

Stock sits at about 4 3/8





Adjustable looks about the same, honestly it was a tough angle so it may look like an 1/8 off but it's the same

tony_2018

Yeah, confirm with manufacture on the chatter. its probably the break-in period.

09chaplak

Update, gear was definitely off a tooth. I compression tested again and was getting **** poor 150 across the board. It was 180 yesterday so what happened? Well I read that about 9 degrees is roughly one tooth so I was like eff it and advanced the gear to 9 degrees. Well wouldn't you know it, compression shot up to 210. How does that happen?

Anyway, slipped the belt over one tooth and set gear back to 0. All clear on that front but that noise is still there. Decided to go in with the break in and ran the car for about 15 minutes at 2000 rpm. Honestly, if this was a bent or broken valve/piston,would I still have 210 compression and be able to run the car at 2000 rpm for 15 consecutive minutes? Hopefully optimistic it's the break in of the springs, which tony I will confirm with them soon. Thanks for the suggestion.

White_EG1

Does the noise increase with rpm? You should post up a video

When I did a6 cam mine did the same thing, it actually took me 4 times to get the belt tightened right. I say if it persists past the break in the belt is too loose. I know you already did this twice, but really a video will explain it all.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>Did you set valve lash to Honda OEM specs, or did you set to the spec of the spring mfg?</p>

09chaplak

Honda says .20 intake .25 exhaust which is .008m and .010 respectively and parts were recommended with range the honda specs fell within so oem was set. It's louder than valve tapping, I've had loose valves clearances and this is louder. I'll get a video up tomorrow but I still go back to the belt slapping the cover sound. Noise does get louder with increasing rpm. My belt is tight, probably the tightest I've ever seen.

09chaplak

I snagged a video this morning before work. CFK is definitely a problem now so I'm replacing that, which is causing the rough idle and the quick die. But I think this video is good, it's a loud click, or slap. Not a knock or ping. Let me know what you guys think.

purgat0ry

iTrader: (3)

Nobody else going to ask... are you the original owner of those cam gears?
If so, is that your degree settings? it looks like your gear slipped with that scoring on the cog from the bolts.

Slippage can ABSOLUTELY can happen with adjustable cam gears (Why I fking hate them).

tony_2018

They looked used, as stated he should consult the manufacture.