kranked91dx

Hi

sorry I din't posted for a while, been busy building the new shop for over a year now, will be great when done and I'll keep on fabing turbo honda stuff in a short time.

Here is the problem :
the car is a 1998 acura 1.6 EL canada car.
engine is a d16y8, stock ( Wife car )

problem :
whining sound, going louder whith RPM, car is not in gear. Giving throttle directly by the throttle body and listening carfully I can tell this sound come from the Timing belt side of the engine. sound's start at about 2000 rpm and is audible trough the full range of rpm from that point.

tests done : stripped down the head right down to the camshaft, everything is fine and in spec. Changed Timing belt, while I was at it, I had a look at the botom end,it spin's freely, no metal to metal anormal feel, checked alternator & Power steering pump ( by starting the engine with no belt on accessories) sound is still there.
the Tbelt tensioner and water pump where all tight and spins freely by hand.
the head spin's freely by hand when I spin the camshaft sprocket.
I had a look a the dizzy, rotor is tight, bolt is there and bearing is normal and free.

I had to get the engine back together because I didn't had the water pump and tensioner in hand, but will have them soon, so I will put them on to see if this sound's is gone but I doubt it will.. unless the water pump propeller is loose on the pump shaft, wich I NEVER seen before. ( and this would cause the car to overheat, and it's not, at all )

Point is : I F%&?ing don't know where the F&?* to look now... damn I even thought of an exhaust leak ( checked that too... all gasket are good, lead donut too, and no carbon mark anywhere )

anyone had this problem once in their life ? BTW, car drive fine... just an anormal sound I dont like.

sorry for the long A$$ post, hard to describe a little.

let me know if something come to your mind ! any input are apreciated.

thank's

Kranked

Former User

Do you have A/C?

kranked91dx

Car originaly had A/C,
but we live in Quebec, it's mostly cold here, so when the compressor broke, we did not replace it. I removed the whole system from the car.

I would have check it with no belt on if it was there though ! ...

thank's !

JP

mortificationrock

Welcome to the famous ISB."Input Shaft Bearing". Its inside the tranny. My **** is doing it too. But I aint no tranny expert to open it up and replace it. So I deal with it. Eventually I'll get to it.

mortificationrock

Welcome to the world of ISB. "Input Shaft Bearing". Its inside the tranny. I too have this gay sound but I just deal with it since I'm not very mechanical as to trannies. you have to open it up and replace like a $20 bearing.

Former User

Along these lines, does pushing the clutch pedal down make the noise go away?

mortificationrock

Yup. It goes away when the clutch is pressed in. It also gets louder on higher rpm's. That **** is annoying. The last time, I just replaced the tranny. I got it for $100 so it was a steal. Otherwise you need to open up the tranny and replace the bearing. What's worse is that its all the way inside. I believe you need to remove all the gears to get to the damm bearing.

Former User

OP: Does your noise also go away when the clutch pedal is pushed down?

jgraham11

for the original thread.

Try taking the valve cover off and running the engine. Put a cloth on top to not get oil everywhere.

This may help to identify the location. You may also try to pour oil on the cam when its is running if the noise is coming from the shaft.

mortificationrock

WTF?? Does this have to do with ISB?

g230sport

was the noise there before you did the timing belt?

i think that the timing belt is too tight. if it was done before you you did it, it may have been too tight from then.

and then when you replaced it, you could have installed it too tight...

just my idea

kranked91dx

First, thank's for all the input.

well it's unfortunatly not the ISB, I race Honda engine for over 10 years now, and let me tell you I have gone through so many Input Shaft bearing, I can replace one in an afternoon. it's not the ISB because sound's is there no mather if clutch is pressed or released. and sound is really coming from the Tbelt side of the ****...

it started doing the sound's before I replaced the timing belt, I did the timing belt to solve the problem because my first thought where about a suspicious tensionner on the Tbelt. but it started about two week ago. I alway's check timing belt deflection when getting a new one in there, that way you are shure you won't '' skip a toot'' once in a while in a hard shift.

I completely dissasembled the head from the rocker to the cam. Only valves and spring's where still there, and everything was in check compared to Honda Spec... so I guess it's not relative to valve train. One lobe of the cam was a little chromed compared to the other, but valves leash has been adjusted in spec relatively to that issue.

I performed a leak down test and had a look at the compression, I thought maybe a bent valves was the culprit, every cyl is within 5 psi of each other, this engine does not consume oil either...

I'm damn lost on this one guy.

keep input coming as I keep searching.

PS. I did not change the water pump up to date, but will in the next week, unfortunatly i will not be able to work on this car for a few day's. Got other priority.

Kranked

kranked91dx

Bump up top to get any additional inputs about this
jigs-saw this engine is doing ?

ccarey

just taking a shot at this cause it sounds like you know what your doing, but why not get a scope and start listening while the motor is running. correct me if i'm wrong but if you broke it down and started spinning things by hand i wouldn't think it's gonna present itself as a problem till it has at least 1500 rpm's on it so you wouldn't be able to find it. it could be a pulley bolt, or who knows what, and i know sometimes things can be deceiving

ccarey

I've worked at honda for along time and you wouldn't believe how many times we have heard noises from one side but it truly be on another side.

kranked91dx

Yhea, I had a friend telling me about the scope, but I've never used one.

would a needle point scope or std diaphragm scope would be better ??

-- turning it by hand was the only option I had about this problem, couldn't locate the troubble this way, but I knew when i was doing it that it would probably end at nothing since I wasn't even spining up to a 1/30 of iddle speed, and the sound dosn't come up until 2000 - 2200 RPM. I thought I might feel a little restriction, or a rough bearing spinning it by hand... )

I had a friend telling about an '' out of ballance water pump propeller ''. anyone Ever seen that ? could be caused by solid deposit on propeller or corrosion of propeller caused by to hign of a water / coolang mixture.

keep input coming

thank's !

Kranked

alphalanos

I have a similar problem. (d16y7) Its like an intermittent squeak that started after putting on a new T belt and water pump. Im thinking its too tight so Im going to just put in a new tensioner and cam seal since I think its leaking and the tensioner wasnt done. As well as recheck the belt tension. Happens at idle and during accel.

ccarey

we use a needle point, and it works great, you would think being a scope it would pick up other sounds but when you touch it to the object you are checking, you truly hear just the sound from that object, i would try that it may save you alot of time and a couple of breakdowns, ha ha good luck

RyanA

+1 on timing belt related issue; I think it's due to the timing belt pulling the cam down towards the crank and causing the #1 cam saddle to wear. Could be that your oil was broken down and the front cam saddle (the one by the timing gear) is worn a little. It can happen from a ton of miles or just crappy oil. Did you happen to pull the cam and inspect all of the cam saddles? I'd bet the first one is probably scarred up, possibly the cam, too.

Jimster480

it is most likely one of these two things.
1. Timing belt is touching the timing cover.
2. Timing belt tensioner is too tight which causes them to "whir" or whine as the belt pulls down on the cam gear.

g230sport

try loosening the belt up just a little bit.

im pretty sure on these motors, the spring on the tbelt tensioner is supposed to set the belt right where it should be. just crack the adjuster bolt loose, you can see it without taking the covers off, just pop the plug out, crack that 14 loose, and then retighten.

im almost willing to bet the noise goes away...

either way, youre going back in there to do the waterpump, so you really wont be out anything by doing this...

kranked91dx

it's nice to see Honda-tech is still a very nice place to get advice !
Some kid's told me it had changed over the year, nice to see it did not change that much !

Well I was aware of the cam issue, that is why I got there in first, unfortunatly the cam saddle are all perfectly smooth, only one cam lobe is a little chromed and it is on #4 slug.

I thought about the tensionner big time... this i why i did the belt deflection on this engine, I don't usually do it on daily driven ( not abused ) street engine. but I will have a new tensionner in, same time as the water pump, will check closely for belt tension/deflection adjustment as it may be the culprit here.

the timing set plastic cover where suspected, but engine was ran with all plastic cover off to validate the rubbing issue... no change in noise, even with plastic cover off.

I will deffinatly buy a scope to locate the sound more precisely... I usually get by a troubble WAY more faster than this, especially on D-serie engines, I admit being far from home this week so I can work on the car... but will do ASAP when I get home !


thank's a lot for all the inputs guy's

I'll be back here for good in a few month's when the shop build is cleared...

Kranked

kranked91dx

ISSUE SOLVED !!

Turn out it was a combination of two thing's ... the T-belt tensionner and the power steering pump where whining.

I changed the tensionner and ran the motor without acessories, and it was running without any anormal sound. So I put the accesories back on, PS pump and Alternator. and the whining came back quieter than it was before the tensionner, I unhooked the strap one at a time and finally found the power steering pump to act weird... so I replaced it with another one I had laying around from a previous swap.. and Voila ! that anoying whining sound's is gone for good !

hope this thread help people diagnose a little more in these case !

thank's all for your support !

Kranked91Dx