mtriples

Hey.

I'm trying to plan my D16 build, came up with a few questions. Just trying to cover all the bases.

Originally, this was just supposed to be head work, Y7 to Y8 minime. I already have a Crower stage 2 cam, lined up to get the rest of the valvetrain soon. No issues there. I'm looking into the bottom end now, too. I'm thinking to aim for 11:1 compression, trying to decide on pistons.

Is there generally any issue with valve clearance with higher compression pistons, with the crower cam? Stock rods should be fine for this? I've also noticed, some companys list different pistons between Y7 and Y8. Being a Y7 block, I should use the Y7 pistons, correct?

mtriples

Bump

hondamark35

a few points about using 'piston A' in 'block B'.. bore, wrist pin diameter, compression height and dome volume (+ or -) are the key points. if the first three are the same and the fourth is not too much into the + side for the chamber then you can use them, as a general rule...

any build with an after market cam and/or higher compression and/or mix-matched parts (ie. the above example), everything needs to be mocked up, cam degreed in and pistons clayed.

on a common set up that guys have done time and time again, you can get away with doing what has worked before and not checking. personally i don't like to risk it...

also speak to some one in the tech department of the company you're buying from. they should be able to give you some good answers .

newtron63h

ok, im sure youve heard this before and im not trying to insult you. but unless you are planning on spending a LOT of money on an all motor D16 then you wont get very far as far as HP goes(if HP is your goal). just letting you know so there arent any surprises. the D16 just has disadvantages that take quite a bit to overcome.

so now to answer ur question:
no i dont think you will have any problems with piston-valve clearance with approximately 11:1 and a stage 2 cam.
if it were my build i would, at a MINIMUM, upgrade rods and pistons. i like peace of mind and knowing that things are strong and up to the task.

im not sure about what pistons to use though.........i dont know enough about either engine to know whether Y7 and Y8 pistons are interchangeable.

BUT i do think its VERY worthwhile to take a D do some light mods(higher compression(10-11:1), upgraded VT, valve job, light porting, balanced, maybe bored, better rods), boltons(IM, I/H/E, TB, cam), and tune it on pump gas......turn it 7500-8000. what you get is the same reliable, efficient D series BUT it now has a bit of a bite. still not fast, but PLENTY fun in a lightweight like an EG hatch AND still the mild mannered and VERY efficient engine around town when you arent flogging it.......and should be better for cruising speeds too. some might argue that a B16 or B18 takes care of that stock.......but why swap if ALL you want is a lil more bite.......if you arent looking for numbers then a D16 IMO fills the shoes nicely.

mtriples

Not looking for anything spectacular in terms of power increase. Valve seals were leaking, have a Y8 head sitting around, figured I might as well throw that on. Hoping to see 140-150 hp at the wheels minimum, which shouldn't be a problem. Expecting more like 160.

Heres a bit of an overview:

Car:
98 CX

Breathing:
Skunk2 IM (Portmatched to TB)
Skunk2 68mm TB (comes as package with the IM, getting good deal)
Apex'i WS2 cat-back (Already there)
Y8 header/high flow cat, to be decided

Head:
D16Y8 Mini-Me, collecting dust in garage
Crower S2 N/A cam ~$250 Canadian, already bought
KMS D16 valvetrain package (Should be good for approaching 10k rpm) ~$650-700 CAD
-Bronze valve guides
-Dual springs
-Titanium retainers
-Stainless/Nitrided valves
Medium p/p, 3 way valve cuts

Block:
D16Y7
Some sort of pistons, still researching...10.5 or 11:1 compression
Think I'll go with Eagle forged chromoly rods...any comments on this, or why they're so cheap? ~$360 USD
Going to see if I can't get some lightweight pulleys machined locally, too.

Looks like I'll be throwing in a chrome chipped P28 for ecu.

As for the cost/dual cam critics, I bought the car to have fun tinkering with, just doing it for the hell of it. If I wanted a 500 hp civic, I'd have thrown in a K20.

newtron63h

hey if you have the money, go for it.

honestly i think 160whp is a bit of a stretch cuz that means about 176-184hp at the crank .......but i hope you get there, i might try a similar build.

i think without some serious head work a d wont make any power over about 8k.

what you have planned looks good.

1.8t in the MKIV?

mtriples

Looking forward to being done the planning, and actually doing the build. The waiting sucks like hell.

You think oversized valves might help the head some? I can get .5mm oversized for the ones I'm using.

No, 1994 mkiv supra GZ, swapping to the 6 speed in about 2 years

rogue420

Man that's a lot of work and money into a dseries. 3260.00 just for parts alone? it's your money to burn I guess.' I would just stick with the head and boost it. Maximum seat satisfaction, minimum cash outlayed.

mtriples

You can cut that price by about 1800, the hydra ems isn't worth the price for a build like this, gonna just chip a P28

mtriples

Any thoughts on whether .5mm oversize valves would benefit the build?

newtron63h

possibly, IDK if the ports or valve size are the bigger restriction. but i do know that it would be easy to lose some low end torque if you go too big with the valves. and the difference in lift and duration on a vtec cam is designed with a certain valve size in mind. what you can do in that case is call up comp cams, tell them about your engine, and they will grind you a cam that should be well suited to what you want. the nice thing is that i dont think it costs anymore, you just have to wait a lil longer for them to grind it.

you know boring the block helps head flow too.....it moves the cylinder walls away from the valves allowing the air to flow better. this is called unshrouding.

mtriples

I already have an s2 crower cam. Talked to a crower rep though, he said that for the motor, the valves would probably make little difference for what I'm doing.

I've been looking into boring it, every little extra displacement helps a little motor. Just curious though, generally when people talk about boring them, they increase it by .5mm. This is done by honing? How do you protect the motor from the metal dust?

newtron63h

boring is done by a boring machine, you dont want to sit there all week and hone .5mm off the cylinders. needs to go to a machine shop where they will bore it and hone it for you.

mtriples

Ah great, no thanks then. I'm doing all this work with the motor in the car. I don't have the equipment/space to pull the motor in the first place, let alone transport it to a machinist.

BLK2DOOR

I say go higher compression like 12:1 with a bisi cam and prob just run stock rods wit arp rod bolts. Mild port and polish, 3 angle valve job, bisi header, milled head, and whatever stock piston that gets the compression up there.

johnzy00

Your going to replace the pistons with the motor in the car? Can be done but wow cant imagine checking your main clearances laying on your back the whole time!

iamthefollower

I know that a buddy of mine had a built single cam, he had the rods shot peened, Nippon ZC dome pistons, then p&p, 3 angle valve job, had the intake manifold gasket matched and all. It was a very nice ride and for it being all motor it was pretty decent on power, He had it converted to OBD1. I'm not sure what HP he was putting out, but I would like to do that to a D Series and have it for a daily while my sol gets more put into it.

mtriples

@BLK2DOOR

I only have 91 octane kicking around where I live, 12:1 can be done, but its pushing the danger zone. I'd rather keep it to 11, and have a bit of an advance. I already have a cam, so thats out. Stock rods, from what I'm reading, are only good up to 200 hp, and only if shotpeened...I'd rather have a little more overhead. I have the money to upgrade them, just for peace of mind.

@Johnzy00

Gonna be lots of fun, for sure. Is it screwed up that I'm actually looking forward to it?

@iamthefollower

Sounds like a good plan. All motor D16's aren't horribly common, most people swap in a b series for this kind of stuff, so you won't be driving just a run of the mill engine.

elizabeths dad

help i got a 97 civic with the d16y7 that we just swaped . when u start it its blimmping ? and then goin down the road it will start missin and bogin down . all new plugs wires cap and buton ? what else could it b ?

thumper64

Without forced induction, a single cam is kinda limited. You're investing about 3300 and I don't see it making too much power.

And before you install the KMS valve train parts, read up on them. I have heard some issues about their quality.

mtriples

No offence dude, but please clean up the spelling, no idea what the hell "blimmping" means. Need more info. I'm assuming you're saying its misfiring? Check, make sure you have the distributor lined up properly on the splines. Is it throwing a code? Where did you get the motor? Compression good? Is it completely stock? Factory ECU?

mtriples

Like I've said a few times, doing it for fun, the money doesn't matter a whole lot.

And thanks for the heads up, I'll look into that. I was already starting to lean towards a Bisi valvetrain anyway.

elizabeths dad

ok i still have the original ecu that was in the car it was 4 a auto before we swapped it over i t has not been pluged in since last year . i was told that that ecu was no good untill it was re flashed because of a anti theft thang is that true or what ?

newtron63h

so the ecu is for an auto......but you have a manual in it now? if this is the case then your ecu is looking for signals from the auto......and its not seeing them. you need a manual ecu.

elizabeths dad

ok i have a 97 honda civic ex we just replaced the motor it has a 2000 d16y7 on the harness i had it was a 3 pin iac so we had to cut and put a 2 pin plug i found on here were it said disregard the orange wire . ok so ihooked the blue and black wire and the yellow and black wire and thats in and its not pickin up the iac any advice?