Syndacate

So yeah, I'm pretty sure the D15B7 came in the DX coupes...not positive...but it was a D15 non-vtec...whatever..

Point being:
Friend of mine picked up a DX coupe for 2.8k, car has stock engine, DC Sports 4-2-1 1pc header, injen short ram CAI, and some exhaust which I dunno what it was (no name on the side...really sharp sound though, very "cracky")..

So he came over for a bit and we decided to take each others' cars for a spin, he took mine (EX, stock D16Z6, chipped ECU, catback exhaust (N1), short ram CAI (off some dude here on H-T...but the filter's K&N)). Right off the first thing I obviously noticed was when I pulled a U-Turn...there's kinda like..no PS, which I realized kinda quickly, and it was aggrivating..whatever... So I got on it really hard, and like..he was following me in my car. For some reason his car felt so much faster than mine, I didn't understand it, 1/10th of a liter less, less compression, and no VTEC, but it feels the same if not STRONGER than my car...but then that point is kinda mooted (word?) by some other facts including:
- I wasn't pushing the turns as much as I could have because he didn't know the road as well as I do and know what they can take so I didn't want my honda wrecked
- shifting at 5.5-6k - reason being his Dx doesn't have the "luxury" of a tach, so teh guy b4 him put some sunpro tach on...had the redline/shiftlight set to 6k...I didn't know what the redline was so I was just shifting between there....so possibly more in the power band?
- he kept on my tail the whole time, I wasn't loosing him, despite how fast I was going or felt like going..
- I looked at the tach when I was really getting on it and it seemed to be moving up a bit slower than mine did....but know for sure? No. And it was impossible to tell how fast b/c his speedo didn't work...

So his car seemed so much faster, and I'm j/w how much the extra .1L, VTEC, and higher compression actually make a difference? Or was it his DC Sports headers, better exhaust (N1's too big for a d-series, doesn't have any hp gain IMO), and lack of PS + lighter altogehter (lighter engine, lighter tranny, probably lighter chassis, etc.). Now his wasn't some D15B JDM crap that had VTEC or anything, it was a USDM DX motor..

So anybody have any info on this? It really annoyed the **** outta me... Anybody know why it felt the same? Differences too small to count + his upgrades?

Was I just dreaming b/c of the sharper exhaust note? (I couldn't tell **** based on no speedo + no redline) - I mean he was stuck to my tail the whole time in my car...

I dunno, sorry for the long post...I'm just hopin somebody could provide some info on this for me? probably somebody with experience in D-series engines...

TIA

Syndacate

92ehatch

well his is lighter to start but that shouldnt be that much.

how many miles is on his and yours?

and there are so many different factors, like how well each motor has been maintained over the life of the car.

different engines will perform different.

i had a lx that was quicker than my friends z6, but ive had a coupe and a hatch that are **** poor slow

lv6l

his car is about 250lbs lighter, he has no ps, maybe no ac? i know the dx and ex/si gears are difffernt. the dx's 2nd or 3rd(forgot) was shorter than the ex/si. so if you were in one of those gears at top end, that could of made the difference. overall i own a cx hatch and i think the ex/si are pigs compare to cx/dx/vx. running a sohc, weight makes an amazing big difference in my opinion.

BigRonDawg

Why dont you take them both to a 1/4 mile track, race, and stop worrying about it. VTEC doesn't add THAT much to your car... yes it helps & sounds cool... but in a basically stock motor you'd be supprised. I had a 96 EX Coupe and my buddy had a 96 DX Hatch... Both stock, now i thought i'd kill the little DX, but it was closer then i thought. I pulled but barely... So don't be all bent outta shape... if you want to really pull away from your buddy, go turbo, or drop a new engine in.

Syndacate

Well to tell you the truth I don't actually like VTEC, well not on a D16 anyways. I was thinking about going with a DX because I can't stand the "luxury" **** that the EX has, it's a Honda, it's not meant for luxury. I mean it's got the moon roof, which is nice...but I don't care that much about that, what else, PDL, and PW? IMO manual windows are better because they don't "wear out" like the actuators in my EX where it's slow as hell to roll up (and yes, I greesed the track, no go), less **** to go wrong in my opinion, neither has AC (optional on EX) and the DX is lighter + no PS (even if it's a small strain, on a small motor a small strain is a big strain, no?).

I'm not sure what I wanna do, confused I guess, I don't have any 1/4 mile tracks around me and am not going to waste my time going to a track, I think I'd win anyways, b/c no matter how hard I was hammering on that D15, he was RIGHT on my tail regardless (in my car), and he didn't know the roads as well, so I really do think mine'll be a bit faster but who cares about that? :-\

A friend of mine just got deported....he's Mexican..there's some problem with his "paperwork" and has to leave the country...which kind of sucks dick in huge magnitudes. Anyways, he got a chance to write like a "will" in which he wants all his belongings to go to. He heard I was getting deeper and deeper into hondas so he said he wanted me to take his Honda if I want, he didn't say much about it except that it's a Black EX, PDL, PW, AC moon roof, 5 sp, 130k.....then....full body kit, 17" rims, and a spoiler...

I'm not sure if I should take it or not, i mean all woudl say I should b/c it's free? Though I have to shell out like 700 bucks for the administration handling fee...so it wouldn't be free..it'd be 700 or 800 (somewhere around there)... So I suppose Sunday I'ma take a ride over there and see what kind of condition it is in, if it's in good condition maybe I'll take it, if it's a POS then screw it. Though I'm not sure if I want another EX O.o, this one's got AC, ha, maybe I'll move that into mine :-P

I think I want to get a DX coupe though...so I was thinking maybe I can buy this and sell it to some 16 year old kid who thinks it looks awesome..

Maybe w/ the leftover I can swap out my D16Z6 and put in a JDM D15B or B16a2

Guess I'll see what happens Sunday, this whole situation is confusing, ltos of paperwork if I want this car, and like I said, I have to throw out like 700 or 800...hopefully not any more... Ha, I guess I'll post back for more advice Sunday once i've looked at it.

My dad brought up a good point, A: It's going to be all riced out if it has a body kit on it, so do I really wanna spend the $ on it? and B: he asked if I don't have enough power with my current D16, a D16 with AC is gonna wreck me...which I suppose he's right....I'll have to test drive it & see..see if there's any name brand aftermarket parts or if it's just a ricemobile. I dont' care if it has a body kit on it if it's in good cond. I'll just go over enough speed bumps so it falls apart and have an excuse to replace it with OEM sideskirts/bumpers.

Oh well, hit me back, lemme knwo what u guys think (about this, and the D15b7 vs D16Z6)..

I'm sure this would be better asked in d-series.org, but I'm hopin some pple here are willin to help me out...

I really think that D15 was faster...it did have I/H/E compared to my too large N1 exhaust and short ram intake...but then again, he didn't have a speedo so it's hard to tell what it was doing :-P

BTW, this question might sound rediculously stupid but I don't care....I've been driving my car like...shifting before VTEC (4300-4.5k) b/c I didn't want it to hit VTEC, I was wondering if like....say I shift at 5.5k, like, right after VTEC kicks in, then shutting it off right away when I shift, am I going to wear out the VTEC solenoid if I do this? I just don't want any **** to go wrong and IMO VTEC on a D16 is just mroe **** to go wrong. Lately I haven't put it to VTEC unelss winding it out to 6k or so, but for regular driving I've been shifting b4...anybody have any info on that?

Any info about anything is thanks...

Syndacate

Bump * :L(

lv6l

no VTEC cannot messed up your motor. but driving and shifting at those rpm will...why would you want to shift that high any ways?

Jason-

He might be a better driver then you? His car is lighter? You suck at driving/shifting? Who knows... Don't shift when your gauge tells you but yet when you can feel your motor going the same speed at high rpms. Your motor doesnt continue gaining speed all the way through the rpms. Figure out where it stops, and shift then.

Go with an jdm h22a. They are cheaper then almost any b-series swap, and really aren't very difficult to install. Buy the motor for $2000, Hasport mounts $600, Hasport axles $400, and the Hasport harness for $300? You'll be faster then slighty built b18's for about $3300 if you install it yourself. *Which you can cause I did.

-Jason

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason- &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He might be a better driver then you? His car is lighter? You suck at driving/shifting? Who knows... Don't shift when your gauge tells you but yet when you can feel your motor going the same speed at high rpms. Your motor doesnt continue gaining speed all the way through the rpms. Figure out where it stops, and shift then.

Go with an jdm h22a. They are cheaper then almost any b-series swap, and really aren't very difficult to install. Buy the motor for $2000, Hasport mounts $600, Hasport axles $400, and the Hasport harness for $300? You'll be faster then slighty built b18's for about $3300 if you install it yourself. *Which you can cause I did.

-Jason</TD></TR></TABLE>

If I do swap, that's what I will be doing...I know how to drive 'n all...listenig for the power band & feeling it..it's pretty obvious...but I was just inquiring about the VTEC..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lv6l &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no VTEC cannot messed up your motor. but driving and shifting at those rpm will...why would you want to shift that high any ways?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That like wind right over his head, he completely missed everything I said..

I didn't say nor imply that VTEC would expletive up my motor, I just asked with NORMAL driving habbits (aka. NOT winding it out all the way) I usually shift around 4-4.5k RPMs I was just inquiring if the VTEC solenoid wears out faster if you do shifts like at 5.2k RPMs right after it goes into VTEC b/c it's moving in then moving out again right after...

As for why I would want to shift a motor that high anyways... Well to me that's not high, high on that motor is like, 6.5k RPMs...

maybe it's b/c i"m used to a 8.2L V8 and I feel that if I start off giving it half throttle and shifting at 2.8K RPms like I did my GSX I feel with this motor that I'd be standing still....I mean it's not like my camaro, i can't just put it in 2nd at 2k and still have enough torque break the wheels loose if I bash the throttle down all the way.... it's just not that big of an engine, not enough displacement, not enough torque... I usually wind these eco boxes out more than a larger engine...

suspendedHatch

VTEC adds around 20hp the engine, and it adds power all throughout the RPM range, not just after the VTEC crossover. As far as street cars go, it's the best thing since easy-access panties.

Your problem is "chipped ECU, catback exhaust (N1)". The chipped ECU will diminishes power output, plug your cat and O2 sensor, and cause excessive carbon deposits in your engine robbing you of power over time. The exhaust I'm not familiar with, but I'm willing to bet it's too large of diameter, again, causing you to lose power although you might pick up some power at the peak. Is it larger than 2.25 inches ID? Even 2.25 is pushing it.

I'm willing to bet that you'll gain power by getting a virgin ECU. Run some seafoam, change your O2 and cat. Don't hollow out your cat, cuz again, you'll lose power over stock.

Jason-

Hitting vtec isnt going to hurt your car if you just barely hit it... or else Honda wouldnt have created it. :0 Why make something that will hurt your motor straight from the factory?

-Jason

TorquelessB16

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm willing to bet that you'll gain power by getting a virgin ECU. Run some seafoam, change your O2 and cat. Don't hollow out your cat, cuz again, you'll lose power over stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree. IMO screwing with the ECU is stupid because it's designed and programmed by Honda to make the car perform at its best. Unless you're better at tuning than Honda, you're only messing **** up. Maybe that's an ignorant way to think, but whatev.

PS, I got a virgin P28 FS.

95DxSi-R2

ok, so what the fu*k is the question again?
d15b7 did come in the dx coupe. i used to have one, and i couldn't even break stand in water, somethin like 102 hp. of course your ex will beat the dx. this is a noob question, i'll give u an answer, https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/642479. this is something u should have done a long time ago.
heres onther one https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/642479

JDM_Frijoles

Noob question. WTF is a CAI

95DxSi-R2

Cold/cool
Air
Intake


Modified by 95DxSi-R2 at 3:04 PM 8/20/2006

Syndacate

You're right..or at least i felt that you are right...I had it unchipped yesterday - scratch that, I gave it to some ricer kid that had a body kit and spoiler and fart can in an autozone parking lot.

I **** you not.

He was wiring up some cabin neons through his cigarette lighter... I told him...I was buying anti-freeze. So I walked up to him...and he got in my face b/c he was all punk bad *** and ****...and I told him taht I didn't wanna fight...or race his beastily car... I just asked him what year his EX was - he said '95...then it hit me "same year...same car...same tranny...Hrm...." - So I told him I had a chipped ECU and I needed a stock one..well he didn't know waht an ECU was so I made a deal with him, I hard wired his cabin neons into his dash (instead of plugging them into the cigarette wire, I cut the cigarette lighter right off it and tapped into the hot lead of his cigarette lighter and grounded it)...then I swapped ECUs...told him it was chipped but I didn't need it anymore since I was upgrading to a system that needed a stock ECU...so he listened...and we sapped ECUs...so now he's got my chipped one...and I hvae a bone stock virgin untouched one....UNCHIPPED!!! - I'ma have to remove that thing from my cig now..

Good story though, right? I thought it was funny...very very ironic that he had teh same car but all riced out...he said he was able to feel teh difference with the new ECU but hopefully he doesnt' watch his gas mpg b/c it richens it up a bit (not to the point where u loose power but still) so I'm sure he'll lose an extra mpg or 2....

With that said. I'm going to college Saturday, before I go I'm getting my catback OFF and sold - I already have a buyer for it - he already paid me...just gonna pull it off and put a stock one on...or at least I think a stock one... Problem is that I don't have an EX or Si exhaust system...and I don't know where the junkyards are...and if I do I don't want one that's all clogged 'n ****...so I'ma tkae it to an exhaust place, buy a generic cat and order a civic EX/Si exhaust - have 'em weld it both on, drop this one I have on my car now off at the guy's house...

Reasons is b/c it's too loud...it's almost as loud as the N1 and i have a 4-5 hour drive from my house to RIT...and I'm not gonna listen to that **** the whole time...I'ma ****** get out of my car I'll be having a seizure after listening to that noize for that long...either that or the vibration damage'll be so much my bumper'll fall off...

So the exhaust is going back stock
I swapped the ECU stock yesterday

I know it's a waste for a D-series but my friend wants to give me 4-2-1 header off an LX for $20. I'ma just slap that on there...I don't care if it only gives me .7hp, it's cheap, and it's DC Sports 4-2-1 2 pc. - and yeah, I was running mor ehtan 2.25 which after speaking with some friends that know these hondas well (here on HT and in real life) that it was just a waste as far as space goes b/c of my engine output...and the ECU was just richening it up...yeah it was an extra few HP, but expletive it, it's a D-series, it's not meant to have power N/A :-P

SO I guess to an extent I'm returning completely stock O.o ('cept for the CAI)....just g2 call midas or mineki (sp?) or whatever the place is called (just know where it is) and tell 'em bitches to order a 95 Si exhaust so it's all ready for when I bring my car in...

Wow, I did not know this...can you please explain to me how VTEC adds 20hp to ur engine while NOT in the crossover? I thought when VTEC wasn't active it was just using regular cam lobes...so why would it matter until it crosses over and switches lobes? I think the exhaust I was running was 2.5" - which was agreed upon by many pple as WAY too big for the engine I was running (stock, anyways)...and I was very happy that I ran into that ricer yesterday who took that ECU off my hands...I don't feel any difference w/ the stock one in...and I reset it and everything, no CEL's...everything works (hopefully) - and everything's stock....

I think one thing that's going to help is I adjusted my idle today (was at 400 rpm according to stock inaccurate tach) but it was too low and shaky..so in accordance with some honda pros here on H-T I upped the idle by tightening the cable a bit...when I went in there there was actually slack between the cable bracket and the butterfly spring....like, actually dipping down...so I tightened that up and moved it over so I'm idling at 800 RPMs or so....so I'll probably get better throttle response if I had slack in the line before....(haven't driven it though since i made the adjustment so I don't know) - it's a good thing I did it that way b/c I originallyt ried doing it according to haynes (turning the idle set screw) and I swear, that screw does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, I turned that screw damn naer all the way out, reset the IACV, reset the backup fuse, started it up, SAME RPMS.....damn near all the way in with IACV out...plugged it back in, unplugged the backup fuse for 20 seconds, plugged that back in, restarted it, SAME RPMS...so I'm fully convinces that that "set idle" screw is completely ******* useless - idle needs to be set by throttle cable adjustment O.o

Sorry for the rediculously large post.

I think it just seemed faster but it actually wasn't..he's not good enough of a driver to keep up w/ me if the car wasn't faster like that....not to mention I think my RPMs woulda climed faster (or at least I believe they do) on a certain stretch I was at WOT at in my car opposed to his...