Rydaddy

Okay....since we have now determined that polishing is bad and porting is good to a certain extent, what should I tell the machinist to do to my head when I take it there to drop it off? Should I say port it just dont go crazy, should I tell him to only to focus on certain areas of the head, or should I just forget it all together?
The head is a 99 d16y8 that is going in my 97 ex coupe. It is a daily driven car, but I am also looking at getting every advantage I can get since I drive a "boat" by H-T standards! Drop knowledge!

Mojo-Jojo

Heheh...regarding the dimpling thing...

A while back my boss and I were talking about this little plaque thing he had. On it were 6 antique golf *****.

Golf ***** started out made out of leather and other things, and smooth, and then as people realized they flew farther as they played with them, they began pre-scarring them, and then adding dimples and bumps and such.

A smooth ball builds up a little wall of pressure around it. The dimples create turbulent flow and break up the pressure wave around the ball, so there is less drag on the ball.

So, I was sitting there, and had that on my mind, and then started thinking about engines, and air flow, and I was like...OMG, what if you dimpled the inside of an intake manifold? Especially around the curves where airflow would build up pressure waves like a flying golf ball?

I talked to a couple people, and they were all like...yeah, should work, go talk to this guy who does engines. ( http://www.replikamaschinen.com )

So, I went to him and told him about that, and he was like...well...you're decades late. The idea's already been around, but it's hard to do because you've gotta get up in there if you want to machine it, and the R&D on it is hard, so what most places do is just leave the intake side rough, so that the flow remains turbulent and flows better without having to spend crazy amounts of time on perfect dimple placement.

Then he was like...look around the shop...see the golf *****? I said yes, and he said: I hate golf.

He showed me an S2000 head he was working on that had ridges in the port...floor I think, and then said that even though I was late on the idea, the fact that I'd come across the technique spontaneously was a good thing.

He also told me a story about a guy that sent him a head to get a port and polish job done, and when it got sent back with unpolished intake ports, the guy called him up and was bitching and bitching and bitching because he didn't understand that was how it was supposed to be.

So, that's why the dimply/rough thing works, in case anyone wanted to know the theory behind it.

B18C5-EH2

I've heard from Mista Bone that you should ditch the D16Y8 head and begin with the D16Z6.

No matter what you do to that D16Y8, the same done to the D16Z6 head will flow better.

I'll try and find that link to that topic in the D Series.org forum.

Rydaddy

The reason I am going with the y8 head is because it yields higher compression (smaller combustion chamber). To me, it would be more trouble than its worth since the y8 dizzy wont mount up to the z6 head. I have heard the contrary about z6 and y8 heads. I heard that the z6 has the stronger block but the y8 has a better head.

Back to my original question.....what exactly should I have done to my y8 head to improve performance on the street?

IS3Fifty

OT||| but does bisi have a webpage??

piscorpio

y8 combustion chamber had quench zones, the z6 did not. It seems like a good thing, and you would think it would make the y8 better, but then again a B18c1 has quench zones also, while the B18c5 does not.

B18C5-EH2

There is a feature on the Y8 head that allows for better emissions, but hurts performance ...I'll try to find that info to prove what I'm talking about.



Here's a few quotes from D-Series.org regarding Z6 head vs. Y8 head:

Mista bone said:

So again why not start with a D16Z6 head?

Mr. Thunderlips

This is probably the most rare...And best thread that has seen this forum in months. I'm glad so many people are participating with useful knowledge and facts.

B18C5-EH2

How's this then Bisi?

Rydaddy

"Bottom line.....I lost 30 hp peak on my 400hp race motor by switching from an unported Z6 head to a ported Y8 head. The engine made great power below 5500, but died up top. In fact, it made 40 more hp below 5500. The Z6 ports are symetrical and provide a much better quality of flow at high engine speeds."

The reason I am going with the y8 is because:
a) It yields higher compression, which I believe any amount of flow difference will be made up by this
b) Straight bolt-on - the y8 TB doesnt bolt up to the z6 head
c) Your quote says that the y8 head actually "made 40 more hp below 5500." Since my car is daily driven, it wont see more than 7000 rpms, and VERY RARELY at that. My useable powerband is actually from idle to about 5500-6000 rpms.

kommon_sense

small correction on b). The y8 intake manifold bolts right up to the z6 head and is actually a very common upgrade. The y8 IM is considered to be the best OEM IM every made for the d-series. Some call it the Type-R IM for the d-series

RyanEJ8

i believe the z6 head and block are somewhat better. The Y8 has a better tranny. Same gear ratios but stronger shifter forks made out of steel. Z6 shifter forks suck from what I have heard from Mista Bone.

RyanEJ8

Agreed.

Intake Manifold and Tranny better on the Y8.
Block and Head better on the Z6.
I plan on just building my Y8 block and maybe getting a Z6 head.


[Modified by RyanCivic2000, 1:18 PM 3/22/2003]

B18C5-EH2

IMO I'd rather have a better flowing head than higher CR. Most of your power comes from the head in these motors, not the CR. I'd rather run 10:1 CR on a great flowing head than 11:1 CR with more restrictive head flow.

Higher CR can be achived by other manes that having a less flowing head with smaller combustion chambers which I'm sure you're aware of.

What pistons, head gasket, and mill will you be doing to this set-up?

Hope you don't think I'm trying to "one-up" or be an ***, because I assure you I'm just having a nice discussion - this is good stuff.

89civicdx

Hey no offense but if you are going to to through the trouble of working on a head then you might as well smooth out the casting marks. I'm not sure what sort of tool you are using but you can see what seems to me like the collet(chuck) marks on the floor. When you do the polishing use a tool where you can adjust the speed and Keep it slow without stopping the bit.It looks like you sanding tool was spiing pretty fast as there are some burn marks near the top. If you can't find long bits then you should clean up the chuck marks as you work your way out.

One reason for cleaning up casting marks is that they many times differ from port to port and since porting is a easy way to even things out leaving different casting marks behind is sort of backwards IMO.

The picture may be decieving but it looks like you touched the turn and it isn't to even on both side...but porting pictures don't always show the whole thruth that a nice feel with a finger can pick up.

You have the right idea by spending time on the valve seats and guide area though.

Again not being critical as everyone does things differently.

edit...I just read your friend did it.

I think he should have gasket matched it too because that way if you don't touch the IM then you will have a step...don't need to go real big as honda intake gaskets are are pretty close but its another thing to do.




[Modified by 89civicdx, 1:35 PM 3/22/2003]


[Modified by 89civicdx, 1:36 PM 3/22/2003]


[Modified by 89civicdx, 1:46 PM 3/22/2003]


[Modified by 89civicdx, 2:02 PM 3/22/2003]

B18C5-EH2

It is gasket-matched, but in that pic the gasket is not sitting up against the head, which is casting a shadow over the opening.

Again the job is FREE so I'm not going to ask him to do anything more than he already is. He said that he does not want to mess with the size of the port too much, so I'm not even going to ask him to take off that casting mark.

Mr. Thunderlips

What kind of gains are you expecting with that port job?

B18C5-EH2

Well I honestly don't know.

I had planned on adding the Hondasaver cam until I found a hairline crack in my upper radiator tank on my 1992 Cx's GS-R radiator, so it looks like a PWR or C&R radiator will eat into my D16A6 funds.

I never had a base on the motor, so I have no expectations on gains from the headwork. Hell I didn't even ask for the work, but we're slow at the shop and I think he wants to prove something to himself and the shop in his spare time.

He's one of the coolerst guys I've ever known though - very quiet. He'd never tell you that he knows his ****, but he truly does. He downplays this bad-*** hand-built 13B rotary-powered Datsun B110 car that he has...

Anyways back to topic - sorry for bastardizing the thread.

I'm not the SOHC expect - what would you guys expect from a good head on a bottom end that will have 11.8:1 CR with a stock cam?

Rydaddy

Haha Im retarded......
I meant to say b) The y8 DIZZY doesnt bolt up to the z6 head. Some fabrication/drilling is needed.
I am defending the y8 because I already have a spare head in my possession and dont want to have to deal with trading/shipping for a z6
I also have a spare y8 TB and IM that I might fiddle with. I think I might just sell the TB and buy a gsr one and have the IM port-matched.
Back to my original question ONE more time :
When I take my y8 head down to the machinist, what should I have him do to the head?

kommon_sense

thats what I'm currently doing for my y8. Also have to find a good cam for it.

Rydaddy

I have heard good stuff about Zex, exospeed and Crower D-series cams . I think I am going with either Exospeed (along with their head package) or Zex.

RyanEJ8

I think you could use a H22 VTEC TB with it as well. It is the biggest at 62mm along with the B18C5 (probably more money if you find one). I plan on seeing if I can pick one up for my y8 myself.


[Modified by RyanCivic2000, 2:15 PM 3/23/2003]

kommon_sense

http://pub143.ezboard.com/fhondadser...icID=672.topic

They have added more info on the z6 vs y8 head thread. This time with pictures explaining the diffs. Interesting read for anyone interested.

kommon_sense

I was originally planning on a crower stage 1, but I am also interested in seeing what skunk2 has to offer and want to find more info on the zex y8 59300 equivalent. My biggest concern is getting a cam that will still allow me to pass emissions and still offer respectable performance in the midrange.

Quetzolcotl

I ported my z6 head with a dremmel tool. it takes a while because it has small bits but does the job. I made the mistake of doing the floor too but am going to sand it with rough grit to make it flow better. Endyn says that they go over the ports with 80 grit and leave it like that. I saw a Gude y7 head. They cut the valve gides right down, and the material around them, to make the valve stem the only thing in the area. They cut the splitter molding on the floor right up to the splitter making the floor flat. they made the splitter sharp too. the exhaust ports were like glass, the intake ports were not polished, and they didn't leave any origional material anywhere, they did the floors.