B18C5-EH2

Okay if you're not familiar with my situation, I posted about it here:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=397050

Summing it up, my daily driver 1990 hatch blew up and I need a good daily-driver motor set-up.

The D16A6 block is a definate! Already got a full D16A6 swap for $100.00. Motor smokes and the tranny needs bearings.

The tranny will remain all 1990 Si stock with all new bearings and seals - that's final.

I have at my disposal FREE used 1988 Integra pistons. Are they not the same high-domed 1989 ones, or are they the flat-tops like the 1986 and 1987 Integra pistons?

My plan is to use those free 1988 Teggy pistons and get new rings and hone the D16A6 block and add all-new rod bearings for sure and mains if it's a must.

So so far it's rebuilt Si tranny, a D16A6 block, used 1988 Teg pistons, new rings, rods, bearings, and 1996-up D-Series metal head gasket.

So here's where I NEED your D-Series Gurus' help - choices:

1. Stock D16A6 head for crazy-*** CR near 12:1. How much would you mill off? This will run on pump gas. I have a friend with a built B18C1 running 12.5:1 CR on pump gas, so 12:1 isn't too bad off I guess. A good friend of mine who has built a lot of D16A6 motors said he's gone .050 (50 thousanths) off his head with 1989 Teg pistons and the metal head gasket and ran mid-grade gas. Does this sound okay?

2. Stock 1988 Integra LS head. Twin-cam D16A1 head - will it not just bolt right up? I'm just not crazy about the twin cam heads for some reason. First off it will drop the CR from the 12ish down to the stock CR of a D16A1, right? What's that, like 9.2:1? I mean that'd be like the stock 118hp rating, right? Not sure if I like this idea or not.

3. D16Z6 VTEC head swap. I have access to this too, and basically it'd be free until it got working, and from then my boss and I would work things out. I *think* it has a Crower regrind cam in it too. Would the CR with the 88 Teg pistons still be around stock 9.2:1 of the D16Z6? How exactly would I wire this up and what ECU is the easiest to use? I mean I'm not trying to locate a P28 ECU and convert to OBD1 - unless it's REALLY worth it.

Well if it was you which would you do and why? There isn't much of a price/money difference in terms of the actual heads, so don't worry about that. All are right there at work at my disposal, so it's not an issue of availability too. The only one that will cost extra (how much? I have no idea!) would be the VTEC head for ECU and wiring costs if applicable, right?

What do you all think about each set-up in terms of reliability, drivability, power output, and aftermarket support factor?

I don't care about any "bling" factors here - VTEC head or DOHC won't mean **** to me if they aren't the best choice overall.

I've heard of a very similiar set-up like my #1 only with an added mild cam pushing 144whp - that'd be sweet!

Thanks in advance for any helpful info, links, personal experiences, and I hope topic isn't annoying to any of you - I thought it was a pretty unique question and not the run-of-the-mill "what will my car run with X set-up" you know?

I also asked this in the EF/CR-X forum, and I was pretty sure I'd get choice #1 replies and I did.

I wanted to make this clear though before anyone even tries to stray way out of my choices:

1. I am NOT doing a DOHC ZC or DOHC VTEC swap. This is my beater! BUDGET-built Beater! Save your hate for another thread, trust me.

2. I am not buying aftermarket parts just yet. Maybe a cam later on if I use the D16A6 head, but for now I'm bent on all-Honda stock parts. Please no "buy JE pistons, etc."

3. I'm not boosting this motor either. *MAYBE* a junkyard turbo down the road which means back to the 1990 stock thicker head gasket and stock 1990 Si pistons, but for now please try to give me some input on my 3 choices, thanks.

4. No NOS suggestions either please. Reliability is #1 here, and while nitrous can be reliable, I'm not interested right now - thanks anyways.

JdmVetteEater

I would go with the z6 head... But you said that you would have to buy a p28........

JDMvtecDRAGSTA

in my opinion, i would just spend the money and rebuild the motor with the new bearings and piston rings, and all the rebuild stuff.
if youre just gonna use it for transportation, then just make sure it runs, and gets you to where you gotta go.

hope that kinda helps you out with your decision.
clean hatch by the way,good luck with your 'project' sorta lol

C1V1C

Try this link:

http://pub143.ezboard.com/bhondadseries

Its a forum just for D-series

degooser

www.dseries.org

mista bone and bisimoto post here...

lots and lots of good info...

sorry if you guys know about this site already!!!

TheWraithLicksNads

Im getting out the honda world and turning 240sx *sniff sniff* so I have a p28 if you need it at a great price (last person flaked on me ) so IM me if your interested, I'll let it go for near nothing

:edith and my money would be on a vtec head and to buy my ECU, it's a win win




[Modified by Keyser Soze, 9:27 AM 1/30/2003]

EK MONEY

iTrader: (5)

deck it, new pistons and rods, port and polish, new intake manifold, TB, injectors, VTEC head, VAFC, fuel preasure riser, and your good to go.. thats my 2pasos.

EK MONEY

iTrader: (5)

deck .45

Phil B

Tom, I'm sure you're aware of Spade's post, but I found it very helpful for D-series build-up info. Thought it was appropriate to cross-post it here.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=335078&page=1

JaeOne3345

budget style kick *** motor in light ef?

-remain non vtec
-d16a6 block
-oem rods fine (maybe shot peened/beam polish)arp rod bolts
-88-89 pistons (ones you have are fine , but id take advantage of .5 OS new ones )
-d16y8/d16z6 metal sohc vtec headgasket
-d16a6/d15 88-95 NON VTEC 16 VALVE cylinder head
-mill 20 thousandths, 3 angle valve job, mild port/polish
-good valve springs
-a camshaft with at least 270 duration/adj cam gear
-the new Bisimoto street/race header (im gonna have one reaaal soon hopefully).
-skunk2 intake manifold for d16 or the edelbrock d manifold looks promising as well
-gsr/type r/h22 throttle body (make sure u port match manifold to the gasket)
-stock air box with drop in or aem or etc etc
-fueling/ecu needs. thats up to you. i wouldnt mind a base hondata tune or even a rich d16a6 program with a afc and some 310cc prelude injectors (since it is an ef the injectors should work without any mods or hiccups)

keep in mind with the milled head, headgasket, and .50 OS pistons, you now own a 1611cc d16 with a CR of around 11.8:1

have fun.

oh yea, since its an EF. ZC tranny, Si final drive. good clutch, oem lightened/balance fly.

EF's are perfect candidates for mean sohc's. i have two friends who busted into the 13's with such subtle engine modification + extensive weight modification

p.s. about milling and decking. dont go too far if you plan on running the a1 pistons and large cam as it is. you dont want any clearance or extensive timing issues. my friend ran a big cam with like a freakin .060 60 thousandths mill with a big cam and stock block but not my cup of tea. with a1 pistons, headgasket, and modest .020 off the head, look at the CR you've already achieved.


[Modified by JaeOne3345, 6:18 AM 1/30/2003]

RacerBoy

I suggest for the head go with the Z6. You can activate the VTEC by simply using an RPM activated switch and retain your stock ECU (if it's an SI). Regarding the block, I wouldn't bother with integra pistons. I'd keep it all stock with new bearings and rings.

I myself did a full Z6 swap in my CRX. I'm a big daily driver and I love it. I may be in store for a Greddy kit over the summer...but who knows!

SOHC_MShue

i have been trying forever to register an account on this forum, but i can't seem to ever get it to work. I will fill out all of my information to register and then when i get done i go to register the account and when i click the button it won't load up. anyone got any help with this?

eg6ajk

what's the stamp on the pistons? P29?

IMHO first option is most economical and good enough for a peppy daily driver, add a cam, mill the head, some home P&P to the intake + honda made bolt ons. ie. 00 Y8 header, Z6 manifold with B-series TB and you can definatly make over 120+whp

second option won't work without a major work done

third option is excellent but requires alot of TLC to do and alot more $$$ to spend and for the money an A6 head can be built up to put out more power.

as far as tranny if you pop it open possible ZC gearing with the 4.25 FD would be nice and cheap mod.

sicivic

Tom,

With the second option, using the stock Si piston and the Z6 head and gasket, you'll be looking at a 10.5:1 CR. I've heard that this set-up with the A1 pistons would have a quite high CR for pump gas, something above 12:1, but I'm still thinking about doing it on my mini-me swap.

But my suggestion for your constraints would be the first option.

-Shamus

Plan B

You don't need vtec tom, totally stock looking 150 whp std hatch. That is your destiny.

91~CRXSi

Heres a few pics of what mine LQQKs like:






Thats 11:1 Compression with all new rings, bearing, rods, pistions, completely new valve train parts, port and polished head and angle valve job.

Quetzolcotl

i've always heard that 11.5:1 is about as high as you can go on 91 octane without really good tuning. if i am mistaken please tell me. if the '88 pistons are not p29 then they are crap and you'd be better off with a6 pistons.

http://www.importperformanceparts.net has bearings for cheap. $60 for main, rod, and thrust washers. or CAMP1320 on this board has acl bearing sets for $99 shipped.

get a z6 head or a y8 head. y8 head with p29 pistons is around 13:1 and z6 is around 12:1. in my z6 i'm getting a thick *** cometic head gasket to reduce the cr to be around 11.5:1.

port and polish your own head with a dremel or die grinder. its cheap and you'll learn a lot. if you **** it up then new heads don't cost that much.

a6 or z6 rods are good up to around 150 hp or so if not more. use those or shot peen then for more strength or use integra ls rods and mill them 1mm on each side to fit.

a zc head (d16a1/a8/a9) will not bolt up to another d series block.

read up on dseries.org


[Modified by Quetzolcotl, 5:14 PM 1/30/2003]

B18C5-EH2

Okay a few things before this gets really confusing:

I am SET on the D16A6 head now - no choices now.

First of all 12.5:1 CR is fine on 93 octane pump gas that we have here in GA.

Secondly I'm pretty sure that even though the 88 pistons might not be the same high dome as the 89 ones, they are at least better than the DISHED A6 pistons. The 86-87 ones have a flat top which is still better than the A6 pistons, right?

Milano_EH3

The 88-89 D16A 'teg motors have the domed pistons, the previous D16A's do not. If you are getting the '88 'teg pistons for free then use those, definitely! They are much better than both Civ and 86-87 'teg pistons. I don't know if that answers your question....


[Modified by Milano_EH3, 3:54 PM 1/30/2003]

B18C5-EH2

That's what I thought too. I was pretty sure that the 86-87 were the flat tops and that the 88-89 were the same domers.

Anyone know for sure?

I guess I'll find out as soon as I pull these damned pistons out of this pile of crap 1988 Integra.

IS3Fifty

im not ragging on you, but why a D series build??

Milano_EH3

Read the beginning of a post. He is putting together a very cheap solution for his busted daily driver. He might be able to do this with out spending much scratch at all.

BauleyCivic

my guess is either its cheaper, or he wants to try something new since he's already done a c5 in his hatch

vivid02

because he already has a hatchback with a b series motor.

JaeOne3345

why a b series build when you could go 454? simple. preference