lurice01

Working on a 95 civic d16a which is like a d16z6. I had to do water pump for the first time in my life so I got the kit with timing belt, tensioner and cam and crank seals. Then I decided to try to be cool and put on a skunk2 adjustable cam gear that I don't even really need at this point, I just think in the future I might build more...

I set everything to tdc by lining up crank with the arrow and the mark, but I messed up and took off the timing belt BEFORE I took off the cam gear. So when I went to loosen the cam gear bolt to remove the cam gear, it turned independently of the crankshaft some to the counter-clockwise. I eventually got the bolt off with an impact but the cam has moved this way and that with no timing belt on, while the crankshaft pulley was lined up with the tdc arrow.

Then I found out I needed the woodruff key for my pointless new cam gear and I was too nervous to make my own so I waited for one from Honda. I put on the cam gear the only way it will go on, I tried to turn it to where it lines up and it didn't want to move, at least not by hand with no tools.

I finally do more searching and find other n00bs with this problem on honda-tech and elsewhere, who are now at risk of bending valves, which I knew but I thought it would take some decent amount of force to bend a valve, like the timing belt would have to break while the car is running or moving. I haven't pushed anything hard at all, but this is new to me.

While searching I find advice to turn the crank's notch to 3 o'clock or 6 o'clock, which ever is closer, while avoiding 12 o'clock (the arrow mark).
Then they say I would be able to turn the cam gear any which way I needed to to get it to TDC so that its marks line up,
so that's what I did but I did have to use a normal ratchet to turn the cam gear, and it didn't take very much force, (I'm 140 lbs and not buff.)
Then I turned the crank back to the arrow mark
so that now everything seems to be all lined up, and I'm about to put the new timing belt on.

I may have heard some clicking during turning of the crank and/or cam. Did I bend a valve that easily? If so, that is a painful learning experience.

mk378

You're unlikely to damage anything turning by hand. You will need some leverage turning the cam to overcome the valve springs.

If you aren't sure about the pulley timing to the cam, you can check the distributor drive slot in the other end of the camshaft. It should be straight up and down (relative to the head deck) when at TDC1.

If you set the crank away from TDC or BDC, so that none of the pistons are all the way at the top, then you can turn the cam as much as you want. So do that, set the cam to TDC, then bring the crank up and put the timing belt on.

Finally, turn the crank two full turns by hand before trying to start. This is some reassurance that the valves aren't going to crash.

lurice01

Thanks. to check distributor drive slot for TDC: I remove the distributor cap, and the rotor's metal part should be pointing at the spark plug that leads to cylinder #1?

lurice01

My rotor button is pointed at #4!
This tells me the skunk2 adjustable cam gear's center timing mark, is only there for the d16y set up.
I have d16a which is like d16z I guess, and s2 cams gear cog should be turned other way 180° for that set up.
So I'll turn crank to 3 o'clock, then turn cam 180°?

mk378

If you just turn the crank all the way around once with the belt on (i.e. normal running), the cam will be 180 from where it was.

So I'm not sure what you're saying. Why are you not simply using a stock gear?

lurice01

I was going in just to change a water pump. I know an adjustable cam gear alone won't change hardly anything, but I will eventually add a stage one camshaft or something and more little things one day. And this is teaching me a lot. Like relation between cam timing and ignition timing

My valves are fine apparently and the car started right up

The car idled funny until it warmed up, then I drove it and it felt somewhat sluggish so I used my timing light and dialed it to zero, checked the ignition timing. Standing on the driver's side of the vehicle, the ignition timing marks were much to the right of the lil' gun sights, so I turned the distributor slowly as far as I could and the ignition timing marks are still a bit to the right of the lil' gun sights. However, the idle instantly improved and the sluggishness went away and everything appears back to normal, but could I make it better or did I go wrong anywhere? Should that timing light be dialed to zero? Is the full range of the distributor is more like the equivalent of half a tooth? Making the middle setting of the distributor to each extreme equal to say a quarter tooth? Is my timing advanced or retarded, I think it is retarded. And or I'm off a tooth, but It's not missing and running normal or close to it.

When I was doing the timing belt and setting cam timing, first I put on the adjustable cam gear. I set s2 cam gear to be advanced one mark. I believe that's 1º+. Then I tightened the adjustable cam gear's six lil' bolts to 8 ft/lbs with blue loc-tite.
Then I lined up the 2 marks on the cam gear with the 2 triangles on the plastic piece behind the cam gear.
No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get the timing belt on. I made sure not to move the crank; I kept the cranks marks lined up. I had to move the cam slightly to the left so that I could finally get the timing belt on. I could still argue that the 2 cam marks were more or less lined up with the plastic triangle marks.

Advanced cam timing makes the car faster under 3000rpm?

Now that I have an adjustable cam gear, can I just take off my upper timing belt cover and adjust the cam gear without removing the timing belt?
Can that correct my ignition timing?
I would guess yes, but when you advance or retard your cam timing, should your ignition timing still line up perfectly with the Red mark on the pulley? I would guess no.

(the stock specs D16A / D16Z6 ignition timing is 16º +/-2º (Red mark) BTDC at 650 rpm.)

mk378

You have to put the ECU test jumper in to set the spark timing correctly.

lurice01

I did use a test jumper.

Please help with my many questions.

mk378

Set adjustable gear to zero unless you're going to fully chip and tune the car, for which you should seek someone with experience in doing that, (would not be me).

The CEL should be off when you run the engine without the test jumper, and on steady when you run the engine with test jumper. This confirms that test mode is indeed active.

lurice01

Ok, I can confirm that the CEL was off when I ran the engine without the test jumper, and on steady when I ran the engine with the test jumper. It's safe to assume that I will always use the jumper and activate test mode correctly from here forward.

First I turned my timing light dial to 0, and pointed it at the V and noticed I had very advanced timing. Then I turned the distributor to max retard and the timing was still somewhat too advanced so next I adjusted the cam gear dial from i think +2º to 0º like you said. Now ignition timing through the timing light looks to be 2.5º - 3.5º advanced, even though my distributor is still at full retard position. That makes me think I was off a tooth when I did my timing belt anyway, but apparently I can fix it by adjusting the adjustable cam gear dial. Moving the cam gear dial is the same as moving the distributor as far as I can tell.

The 2º advanced timing mark on the crankshaft pulley is the mark closest to the front of the car. If the middle red mark of the three on the crankshaft pulley is 16º, then the 2º advanced is 18º. It's ok to set ignition timing to this advanced point, turn off car and then reset the ECU by pulling the under hood fuses, waiting 5 minutes and plugging them back in, restarting car, and waiting 5 more minutes?

mk378

Moving the distributor only changes the spark timing. Moving the cam gear or skipping teeth on the belt changes the cam timing. They are not equivalent. You should get it so the distributor is in range with the gear set to zero. This would mean moving the belt a tooth.

lurice01

I see what you mean about that I SHOULD get the distributor in range with the gear set to zero.
But when you say move the belt a tooth, that is somewhat difficult to do, because when I take the belt off the cam, the crank will likely move away from TDC and mess everything up. I don't want to remove everything to fix the crank position and put it all back together then still have a chance of it not being right.
To be off a tooth means I need to turn the cam to the left or right with the belt off, which the adjustable cam gear allows me to do with the belt on.
The rotor button and cam turn exactly with each other. This is my understanding. So technically, I can do it my lazy way?

Turning distributor toward the front of the car retards the timing. Does the same rule apply to the cam gear?

Explain more how cam timing and ignition timing are not equivalent. I see the crank timing seperately as Mechanical Timing, but I see Cam Timing to be same as Ignition Timing once the belt is already on and in sync with crank. Because as long as the crank and cam are in sync with their marks during the timing belt job, the crank must not be moved from the TDC mark, however once they're in sync, the cam can be advanced or retarded as long as you dont advance or retard too far and crash valves.

lurice01

Just re-adjusted cam and then used the timing light and set distributer and reset ecu and its running perfect. I made ignition timing ever so slightly advanced best I can but I can never tell exactly anyway. I think its faster, especially in the middle of acclerating through 3rd gear i'd say, but nearest dyno tuner is 59 miles away and i'm not ready for all that anyway.