kmfpod

Finally found out how to start a new thread and pray enough people get to see it for some speedy advice.
Good Evening all,

Newbie to this forum stuff and I know from the trillion hours of reading I've done on here, there are some mighty clever guys who totally know their stuff

Long story short: took out old D16Y7 engine that was chugging tons of oil but still gave me 35-40 MPG on a regular basis.

Put in a JDM D15B 3-stage Vtec. Didn't come with an ECU but managed to track down a rare P2J J11 in California and got my local workshop to mess with the timing for me because it was running rough as hell!

Got most of the little niggles ironed out over the last few months, BUT, and it's a BIG BUT I am only getting 17 MPG out of it now and I'm really, really stuck.

I can run through the things I've done if anyone is willing to participate. For now, any bit of brainstorming would be appreciated, especially if someone else went through the same thing.

Thanks fellas.

Banner

What have you all done for maintenance on the motor?

Wrona

have you even tried to do a tune up?

Crashtestdummy

What wrona said, and any cels being thrown? Spark plugs/wires, timing, airfilter, fuel filter, dizzy and rotor button, all these could help it. Tire pressure, is everything wired correctly? Are you sure you have a virgin ecu that hasn't been chipped

hyperblu

Regardless of what any of you have to say... even without a full tuneup, 17MPG is not normal. I've even seen severely neglected engines get way better than this. I would be pointing the finger at that ecu. Also, these "niggles" could help us help you... Are you running rich?

thenext

17mpg? jeeeez! You may want check your injectors.

motegicivic

Any black on your back bumper?? I am running rich now and my gas mileage is down.

Failsafe88

Yeah you may really want to check that ecu did you get it for a hell of a steal by chance or talk to the seller on why they were selling it

kmfpod

Good Morning Guys,
Been out of town for a few days and working silly hours too.
Car went in to the menders again yesterday and they gave it back saying they were waiting for some info from a number of companies and might take a few days.

Running rich? VERY! I can smell so much unburnt fuel out the exhaust it almost make me gag!!

Black on the number? Yep. Can even see the fine black smoke coming out the exhaust.

ECU? Got it from a guy in California. No way of knowing if it's been tampered with. I suspect it has because with this much fuel going in it should be dying on be but doesn't. Hit 100 KMP/H and it sings and flies all the way to 160 if I was so inclined to do so!

I paid $200 for the ECU so I guess it wasn't a steal. Might have been another type of crime! I've seen many other types of ECU going for $20 or so. Someone somewhere is stock-piling these and consequently others are making tons of money about it.

Thanks again fellas. I'm gone see if I can source another ECU and give that a try. In the long run, it might be cheaper than the repeated trips to the Tune up guys who in fairness are doing their best, but seriously scratching their heads )

Former User

Seems like there's important information here^ that we should hear more about.

Is the mechanical timing possibly off by 1 tooth on the timing belt? Can the ignition timing be set to spec using a timing gun? What other niggles did you encounter with this engine?

kmfpod

Hey guys,

Been away on vacation and this fuel consumption is still killing me now I'm back to work.

To answer some of the above I took some pictures of inside the ecu to see if anyone knows enough to tell me if it's been tampered with (will try to attach it).

Spotted the one tooth difference on the timing belt when I was doing the swap and made sure I got the right belt instead of what the car spares guy thought it should be.

The tuning guys did find a problem with the dizzy wiring saying it wasn't letting it advance. They fixed that and commented on the vacuum lines but said no more at that stage.

Question for anyone in the know: I'm about to start looking for vacuum leaks and guess this will be tricky, difficult and problematic.

When I looked on a schematic for the vacuum lines before going away, I noticed the fuel pressure regulator was somehow connected. I found a ton of technical bumph about what the pressures should be etc and one would need a specialised tool and gauge that fits on the banjo fitting of the fuel rail to measure it. That, of course would be the first problem, sourcing such a fitting and gauge!

I took the fuel pressure regulator out and tried to manually suck the vacuum side whilst wife was blowing the fuel side ( go ahead, make the mental picture and laugh all you want!!) but try as I might I couldn't suck the bloody thing hard enough. Should this be right? I yanked the old fuel pressure regulator off the old manifold an tried the same thing and got the same result - nothing!

So, the question. If the vacuum was leaking, not pulling the gargantuan pressure it seems to need to lift the fuel pressure regulator, I'm guessing the pressure will be too high because it's not getting the chance to loop back to the tank line. If this is the case, could the additional pressure account for such a dramatically high fuel consumption? And if so, should this engine be firing at all at such a high pressure? If it is indeed a high pressure scenario.

On the subject of the ECU, I noticed on google that there are a ton of ECU repair and overhaul specialists in the UK but very few here in Canada - or the States. I'm off to the UK next week and might well pack the ECU to get it looked at over there before going all out and buying another one that might be hooky! Hoping the customs guys at both ends don't get too jumpy about it in my luggage )


Any help, as always, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

92ehatch

how did you convert from obd2 to obd1?

that is an obd1 motor as far as i know

kmfpod

It's an OBD2b. It's 3 stage Vtec. I wondered for a good long while if it might have been an OBD1 because the 1.5 engine got phased out in 96/97. However, the 3-stage only came in in 99-00, or at least that was what I was able to find out on forums like this and a few others.

All the sensors and stuff on this engine had connectors that married up to my existing OBD2 harness almost perfectly. Just had to extend a few things to get it around the bulkier inlet chamber.

Now you got me thinking again!....

Former User

You have an OBD2b ECU. What car do you have? Any CEL codes?

kmfpod

Nope. None right now. The tune up guys made them all go away but I must check that they didn't just disconnect the MIL!
I did have a few CEL codes: 38; 14; 20.

Still lost with this one!

knoxrocks222

im more of a reader than anything but i was thinking....mabey the ecu you have came off of a boosted car and it may be tuned for such (boost), it may be telling your injectors to dump fuel...or it could be your mass airflow reading wrong telling your ecu to tell your injectors to dump fuel. also it could be in the timing, but you said it runs up through the rpm range with ease.......you got me man but what do i know im new to these hondas.............but i do love them

hope you get it worked out man

kmfpod

Gentlemen,

Just got back from the UK and took my ECU over there with me. A specialist company took a look at it and gave it a clean bill of health )

I'm convinced this is a fuel pressure problem and am going round as many of the possible causes as possible. I discovered the little tube off the top of the fuel pressure regulator had a crack in it. Initially I just pushed the blubber hose over the entire length of it. I decided to go back to it and see if it held vacuum, it didn't. I swapped it out for one I picked up at the salvage yard. They're over $250 new! Hoping all the regulators are the same across the models?
There seems to be a tiny improvement on consumption but nothing near what it needs to be. I'll now for sure once I've gone through a full tank of fuel.
I rigged up a vacuum hose into the manifold air inlet. I can hear air being sucked in somewhere but can't find it. I used propane and carb cleaner all over the place, but still couldn't pinpoint it.
I'm in the throws of constructing a smoke machine but decided to measure the vacuum this afternoon. It measure 11 ins HG (water gauge) at idle - which sounds like it's between 1300 and 1700 rpm. I've hunted all over the place for the definitive value it SHOULD be at but can't find a value anywhere. If anyone knows what the proper value should be, I'd really appreciate it.

Whilst looking for the damn vacuum values I found a ton of stuff about the EVAP return solenoid valve. Looks like I'm gonna be busy with a ton of diagnostic checks as well as the stuff you guys have suggested too. Thanks for all your inputs and I'll be back again with some news, hopefully a result too!

joeshmo

Put your hand over the throttle body (block it off) and see if the engine stalls. If not, you definitely have a big vacuum leak. It could be an intake manifold gasket or a cracked intake manifold itself, those parts are often overlooked.

Former User

If you want help, then answer the questions asked in your thread.

What car do you have?

Have you jumped the service connector to check for CEL codes? Does the CEL work?

Have you done an ignition system tune up? Has the ignition timing been adjusted to spec using a timing gun?

kmfpod

Sorry RonJ@HT. I have a 2000 Honda Civic. It used to have a D16Y7 engine but now has a D15B 3 Stage Vtec from Japan in there.

Bit of a vacuum update: Found two vacuum leaks. First one was on the little tube off the top of the fuel pressure regulator. Switched that bad boy out right away!
Next one was on a black plastic ball thing just above and in front of the evap canister. It has a hose into it from the cruise control and the other goes back to the inlet manifold. Ran a new tube to that thing - I found out yesterday it's a 'vacuum reservoir'.
Ran it after fixing the leaks and the freakin' vacuum pressure went down to 10" (from the original 11" before fixing the leaks).

I did a ton of searching and with a bit of help from a guy at one of our Honda dealerships, I found a VERY knowledgeable fellow who actually took the time to listen to all I'd done and tried. He came up with a few suggestions for me to try. However, he and his assistant, had very wide eyes when I mentioned the 10-11" vacuum pressure. They said it should be between 15 and 20". They BOTH jumped on the theory of the timing being way off! I'm encouraged by this and thank those of you who suggested this earlier. I placed faith on the previous mechanics that adjusted and 'fixed' the timing last time they had it. Oddly enough, they also CUT the MIL wire down at the ECU connector
I also did that trick of putting my hand over the air intake to see of the engine would stall. It sure did! It also almost sucked my hand off! Wasn't expecting that much suction from it.

CEL lights? Well there's a REALLY interesting question! I have the little blue connector by the ECU bridged out all the time. If a CEL comes up I like to know what fault triggers it first and what follows it. I used to regularly have the lights flashing 14, 20 and 38. Now, I don't get any flashes. What I do get is the CEL coming on after I've been driving for about 4 or 5 minutes. It stays solid. Unlike all the other codes, it seems to reset itself whenever I switch off the ignition - even if I'm still moving. I switch the ignition back on, start the engine and once again it comes on solid after a few minutes??? I used to have to take out the back up fuse to reset the ECU to make the MIL stop flashing. The new scenario is a bit odd to say the least.

Fuel consumption update: It's now down to 15 MPG 41 litres for 231 KM. I'm fearing the death of my poor catalytic converter right now. The slightly smokey exhaust and the ridiculous unburnt fuel spewing out the same pipe must be making it sick. I'm expecting a Greanpeace ship to hone in on me soon too

Despite all this, I'm mildly optimistic of seeing this through to a healthier 38-40 MPG soon. If I do, I swear I'm gonna drive the 700KM the tank should give me just for the hell of it!

Thanks again guys, and I'll keep you posted once it gets back from the menders.

kmfpod

Ladies and gentlemen. Been quite a while since I graced these pages and hope you can forgive me?
Two fellas who run The Garage Box in Calgary got into the problem of my fuel consumption and rough running problems. To say they are pure genius would be a rediculous understatement!
They dedicated an entire day to the problem and found it was switched polarity on the fuel pressure regulator. It was wrong at the plug in end and no idea how it happened.
Getting 760KM to the tank now and couldn't be happier.
The Garage Box guys put a couple of other little niggles right whilst they were at it and I'm aiming to run this baby to at least 350,000 (currently at 283,000 and going strong).
I got a ton of help from many on this and other like minded forums. Without that help I would have been propper fu@*$d. I haven't had to get under the hood (bonnet for any English folk out there) for quite a while now, but I'm reminded of a minor fault on my alarm system that another member is having right now.
Happy motoring guys. And remember, if yoyo thinks it's tough at times when those stubborn nuts won't undo or you scratch your heads for weeks with a wiring problem. If I can get through two months of -28 celcius garage, Haines manual and you guys' help, then ANYTHING is possible - stick with it.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

The FPRs on these cars aren't electrical.

Former User

Gamble_wrx

hes running a JDM engine, maybe that one is electrical? im curious

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

No.