Cooling fan won't come on & Engine likes to loose responsiveness
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Engine likes to loose responsiveness
<FONT SIZE="3"> PLEASE GOTO THE 2ND PAGE AND READ MY LATEST POST</FONT>
For the past two months or so, my car has had these occurrences where it would loose responsiveness and start bogging, slowing down, and possibly missing/misfiring (not sure how it feels/sounds) for a few moments.
They occur at a specific point though: After backing out of my driveway, as I am proceeding to drive up my street. <u>Or</U> if I'm going down my street, after I get to the first stop sign. Whats significant about the times it craps out on me is that the car needs more torque than it did before I stopped.
The only way out of the problem is to either 1) Hold the pedal down where I have it and wait for it to stop acting stupid, or 2) let off the gas for a few moments and try again.
I can cut the possibility of it occurring if I hold the car in 1st gear and let the rpms climb higher than they normally would before I shift into 2nd.
The problem more or less goes away after I get off my street... by then I guess the culprit has been defeated, but it has occoured in other places too.. but not to such as servere extent as when leaving home. This problem only seems to occur during the day.
<FONT COLOR="red"><U>Cliff notes:</U></FONT> After pulling off from a dead stop (esp. after engine has been off for a while) car sometimes likes to start bogging & slowing down for a few moments.
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Please help me out guys, this car is giving me a headache at a time when I really can't afford for it to be acting like this! I greatly appreciate your time.
Modified by Paprika at 10:21 PM 8/20/2006
Modified by Paprika at 10:25 PM 8/20/2006
For the past two months or so, my car has had these occurrences where it would loose responsiveness and start bogging, slowing down, and possibly missing/misfiring (not sure how it feels/sounds) for a few moments.
They occur at a specific point though: After backing out of my driveway, as I am proceeding to drive up my street. <u>Or</U> if I'm going down my street, after I get to the first stop sign. Whats significant about the times it craps out on me is that the car needs more torque than it did before I stopped.
The only way out of the problem is to either 1) Hold the pedal down where I have it and wait for it to stop acting stupid, or 2) let off the gas for a few moments and try again.
I can cut the possibility of it occurring if I hold the car in 1st gear and let the rpms climb higher than they normally would before I shift into 2nd.
The problem more or less goes away after I get off my street... by then I guess the culprit has been defeated, but it has occoured in other places too.. but not to such as servere extent as when leaving home. This problem only seems to occur during the day.
<FONT COLOR="red"><U>Cliff notes:</U></FONT> After pulling off from a dead stop (esp. after engine has been off for a while) car sometimes likes to start bogging & slowing down for a few moments.
-----------
Please help me out guys, this car is giving me a headache at a time when I really can't afford for it to be acting like this! I greatly appreciate your time.
Modified by Paprika at 10:21 PM 8/20/2006
Modified by Paprika at 10:25 PM 8/20/2006
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Re: Cooling fan won't come on & Engine likes to loose responsiveness (Paprika)
Maybe, but i would unpug the coolant temp sesor and jump it. Then you'll know if your fan is coming on or not.
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Re: Cooling fan won't come on & Engine likes to loose responsiveness (sniggler316)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sniggler316 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe, but i would unpug the coolant temp sesor and jump it. Then you'll know if your fan is coming on or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Okay, so how do you do that, and if I do (and if it works..) that would eliminate all but the temp sensor from being bad right?
Okay, so how do you do that, and if I do (and if it works..) that would eliminate all but the temp sensor from being bad right?
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Re: Cooling fan won't come on & Engine likes to loose responsiveness (Paprika)
It is a plug on the thermostat housing. Pull it out and jump it with a paperclip, wire, whatever. If it turns on you know the fan and switch and everything is good. Sometimes the sensor just gets crap built up on it and doesn't work right. That's what happened to mine but my car was overheating like whoa so your problem is pretty strange.
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Thank you for the information, I will perform that test in the morning.
This is also a BUMP for answers to my other question! Please!
This is also a BUMP for answers to my other question! Please!
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Well I pulled out the coolant temp sensor plug and jumped it... the fan came on!! So that means everything is good except maybe for the sensor itself. So I just wait for a time for the engine temp to get higher than what it has been.. if it does and the fan doesn't come on then I'm assuing the sensor has gone bad...
Is there anyway I could have messed the sensor up or even accidently blocked/disabled it by adding new coolant into the system after changing the radiator?
Is there anyway I could have messed the sensor up or even accidently blocked/disabled it by adding new coolant into the system after changing the radiator?
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Re: (Paprika)
i would like to know how to resolve this issue also..i'm running the fan with a toggle switch right now and that is ghetto! if you find the answer on how to fix this...let me know too! thanks!!
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Re: (Paprika)
The red plug controls your fan coming on and off by temperature. It is called the ECT switch. Engine Coolant Temperature. That is 80% of the causes for civics cooling fans not working.
I have replaced many on customer cars.
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cool , thanks bro. Like I say earlier, I got it to come on by jumping the connector for that temp. sensor in the thermostat housing but now i'm waiting to see if the car will try to overheat to determine if the sensor is really working or not.
I need help with this bogging problem though right now...
I need help with this bogging problem though right now...
#13
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Re: (Paprika)
get a buddy. Take the fuel hose off the fuel rail. Get a mountain dew can or something and cut the top off. Shiny bottom will reflect. Have your friend turn key to on but not start. Fuel pump will prime for 2 seconds so wear safety glasses and fill the can up with the gas.
Let sit on counter for about 15 minutes. That will allow everything to settle. The reason I say this is that is the best way I have found to check the gas for dirtyness and other stuff.
I worked on a car that had kinda similiar symptoms and his gas tank was full of this slimy **** that was clogging injectors.
I took that tank off emptied it cleaned it out added couple gallons good gas and flushed it up to the fuel rail hose first while still unhooked. Then changed fuel filter hooked up line and started car. Revved to about 4500 to get the remaining gas through injectors and after that never had a problem.
This is just one instance I had. Checking your gas will give you a better idea what is going on. At least you will be able to tell if it is clean gas or not.
I may be way off on this but it is still a good way to check your gas out for cleanliness.
Otherwise it could be a spark issue.
Air, fuel and spark. Those are the only things needed for combustion. It has to be one of them.
Good luck
Let sit on counter for about 15 minutes. That will allow everything to settle. The reason I say this is that is the best way I have found to check the gas for dirtyness and other stuff.
I worked on a car that had kinda similiar symptoms and his gas tank was full of this slimy **** that was clogging injectors.
I took that tank off emptied it cleaned it out added couple gallons good gas and flushed it up to the fuel rail hose first while still unhooked. Then changed fuel filter hooked up line and started car. Revved to about 4500 to get the remaining gas through injectors and after that never had a problem.
This is just one instance I had. Checking your gas will give you a better idea what is going on. At least you will be able to tell if it is clean gas or not.
I may be way off on this but it is still a good way to check your gas out for cleanliness.
Otherwise it could be a spark issue.
Air, fuel and spark. Those are the only things needed for combustion. It has to be one of them.
Good luck
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Re: (sauceja)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sauceja »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get a buddy. Take the fuel hose off the fuel rail. Get a mountain dew can or something and cut the top off. Shiny bottom will reflect. Have your friend turn key to on but not start. Fuel pump will prime for 2 seconds so wear safety glasses and fill the can up with the gas.
Let sit on counter for about 15 minutes. That will allow everything to settle. The reason I say this is that is the best way I have found to check the gas for dirtyness and other stuff.
I worked on a car that had kinda similiar symptoms and his gas tank was full of this slimy **** that was clogging injectors.
I took that tank off emptied it cleaned it out added couple gallons good gas and flushed it up to the fuel rail hose first while still unhooked. Then changed fuel filter hooked up line and started car. Revved to about 4500 to get the remaining gas through injectors and after that never had a problem.
This is just one instance I had. Checking your gas will give you a better idea what is going on. At least you will be able to tell if it is clean gas or not.
I may be way off on this but it is still a good way to check your gas out for cleanliness.
Otherwise it could be a spark issue.
Air, fuel and spark. Those are the only things needed for combustion. It has to be one of them.
Good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds cool... I'll look into that. Anyone else got any other ideas???
Let sit on counter for about 15 minutes. That will allow everything to settle. The reason I say this is that is the best way I have found to check the gas for dirtyness and other stuff.
I worked on a car that had kinda similiar symptoms and his gas tank was full of this slimy **** that was clogging injectors.
I took that tank off emptied it cleaned it out added couple gallons good gas and flushed it up to the fuel rail hose first while still unhooked. Then changed fuel filter hooked up line and started car. Revved to about 4500 to get the remaining gas through injectors and after that never had a problem.
This is just one instance I had. Checking your gas will give you a better idea what is going on. At least you will be able to tell if it is clean gas or not.
I may be way off on this but it is still a good way to check your gas out for cleanliness.
Otherwise it could be a spark issue.
Air, fuel and spark. Those are the only things needed for combustion. It has to be one of them.
Good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds cool... I'll look into that. Anyone else got any other ideas???
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Re: (sauceja)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sauceja »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The red plug controls your fan coming on and off by temperature. It is called the ECT switch. Engine Coolant Temperature. That is 80% of the causes for civics cooling fans not working.
I have replaced many on customer cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually the blue one in the picture is the cooling fan temp sensor and the red one is the engine coolant temp sensor for the computor. check the wires and try giving straight power to the fan and see if it comes on...
The red plug controls your fan coming on and off by temperature. It is called the ECT switch. Engine Coolant Temperature. That is 80% of the causes for civics cooling fans not working.
I have replaced many on customer cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually the blue one in the picture is the cooling fan temp sensor and the red one is the engine coolant temp sensor for the computor. check the wires and try giving straight power to the fan and see if it comes on...
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Re: (95DxSi-R2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he already verified that the sensor is bad
sauceja- thanks for the great info for the future
Paprika- change the sensor. u already found it, has an open and is not completing the circuit.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How do we know the engine just isn't getting hot enough to turn the fan on?
I mean I did put in a brand new radiator and new coolant... and the engine hasn't gone anywhere above operating temperature according to my temp. gauge... I was going to wait until I see the temp actually rises above its normal level, and if the fan isn't on then, I'd know the sensor was bad for sure...
sauceja- thanks for the great info for the future
Paprika- change the sensor. u already found it, has an open and is not completing the circuit.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How do we know the engine just isn't getting hot enough to turn the fan on?
I mean I did put in a brand new radiator and new coolant... and the engine hasn't gone anywhere above operating temperature according to my temp. gauge... I was going to wait until I see the temp actually rises above its normal level, and if the fan isn't on then, I'd know the sensor was bad for sure...
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Re: (Paprika)
Cause there seems to be some confusion on this...
There's two seperate sensors that read coolant temp. One sensor produces a quantifiable output. This sensor goes directly into the block and produces the temp readout on your instrument cluster.
There's another sensor wich is more of a switch, it's only job is to tell the fan to come on. It's normally located in the thermostat housing.
part number 12 is the switch, tells the fan to come on.
If there's air in the system, the fan won't come on... If the thermostat is stuck, the fan won't come on. Make sure the system has been bled and if the thermostat has never been replaced, now may be a good time to replace a $13 maintenance item.
There's two seperate sensors that read coolant temp. One sensor produces a quantifiable output. This sensor goes directly into the block and produces the temp readout on your instrument cluster.
There's another sensor wich is more of a switch, it's only job is to tell the fan to come on. It's normally located in the thermostat housing.
part number 12 is the switch, tells the fan to come on.
If there's air in the system, the fan won't come on... If the thermostat is stuck, the fan won't come on. Make sure the system has been bled and if the thermostat has never been replaced, now may be a good time to replace a $13 maintenance item.
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Re: (miahmouse)
I've been thinking myself also for the past few days. After inspection.. I noticed my hoses are over inflated than usuall... I'm guessing there is air in the system. So I'm bleeding it in the morning using the following procedure:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JV »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is how i always bleed the system.
1. Remove radiator cap.
2. Start the car.
3. Put the heat on full blast.
4. Let it reach operating temp, and wait for the radiator fan to come on.
5. Add coolant as necessary.
6. Replace cap and take it for a test run.
The actual bleeding part may take awhile (I've waited as long as 20min for the fan to come on), so just be patient.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for the replies guys and any opinions/tips for the above procedure would be appreciated!! Along with replies concerning my other problem (bogging)
#21
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Re: (Paprika)
I stand by my first statement. The red switch will correct your fan.
The blue switch tells your guage in your dash how hot it is. Not sure what the thermo housing one is for, maybe to tell you ecu that maybe your thermostat isn't opening by a reading of temp.
The red swith is based on continuity. Has resistance until I think 192 degrees F or so and then goes continuity. If not mistaken range is from 192 to 204 or something like that or maybe more. You can get a voltmeter out and wait til your engine is hot, unplug wires and test continuity to your switch. If it doesn't say 0.0 that is your problem.
Change the red switch #13, 30.00. top of fluid, turn heater on high with rad cap off. Let run 5 minutes or so, it won't build up pressure since cap is off. That will bleed most all air. top off and add cap you can then use bleeder screw to finish bleeding system.
Hold throttle to about 2500 rpm until your engine warms to temp. keep holding it otherwise with hood open your engine will not create a lot of heat as it will blow off faster. This will put a load on your engine and still takes a few minutes. Hold throttle around 2500 and you will hear/see fan come on. Done this around 10 times with friends and customer cars.
Normal operating temp should be around 195. and that is just below half on your gauge.
The blue switch tells your guage in your dash how hot it is. Not sure what the thermo housing one is for, maybe to tell you ecu that maybe your thermostat isn't opening by a reading of temp.
The red swith is based on continuity. Has resistance until I think 192 degrees F or so and then goes continuity. If not mistaken range is from 192 to 204 or something like that or maybe more. You can get a voltmeter out and wait til your engine is hot, unplug wires and test continuity to your switch. If it doesn't say 0.0 that is your problem.
Change the red switch #13, 30.00. top of fluid, turn heater on high with rad cap off. Let run 5 minutes or so, it won't build up pressure since cap is off. That will bleed most all air. top off and add cap you can then use bleeder screw to finish bleeding system.
Hold throttle to about 2500 rpm until your engine warms to temp. keep holding it otherwise with hood open your engine will not create a lot of heat as it will blow off faster. This will put a load on your engine and still takes a few minutes. Hold throttle around 2500 and you will hear/see fan come on. Done this around 10 times with friends and customer cars.
Normal operating temp should be around 195. and that is just below half on your gauge.
#22
i'm on my 3rd honda, all have had that fan switch sensor stop working as well as a few of my friends. If a civic is overheating thats the problem.
Your bogging is due to cold oil, cold engine temps, (mine also does this). Let your car idle for 2-3 mins then pull out of your driveway. Viola, no problem. I'd say just live with it.
Your bogging is due to cold oil, cold engine temps, (mine also does this). Let your car idle for 2-3 mins then pull out of your driveway. Viola, no problem. I'd say just live with it.
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Re: (b00steds0l)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b00steds0l »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm on my 3rd honda, all have had that fan switch sensor stop working as well as a few of my friends. If a civic is overheating thats the problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>Thats what I thought too... "if it starts overheating..." then the sensor is obviously to blame. But anyway...
I just came back from bleeding the cooling system.
I removed the radiator cap, started the car, put the heat lever on max (but cabin fan still OFF), and I let that thing idle. It idled for about 20 minutes (Atleast) until the fan cam on. While waiting the coolant did start overflowing as I expected.. and then when the fan finally came on it was only on for like couple seconds... then it came back on again sometime later... I topped the fluid off while it was on for ~1min (maybe). After that I considered myself done, put the cap back on and let it run some more for the fan to turn on again... the fan didn't come back on after that.
Since the temp gauge never went above operating I'm still not too worried yet, but what does worry me is the pressure within my cooling system. My hoses seemed to be under more pressure than I remember them being with my old radiator... not sure why but it concerns me for the stress could cut their lives short. I'd hate to have to buy new hoses, but these guys now feel like they're under quite a bit of pressure when I feel them while the engine in idling...
I just came back from bleeding the cooling system.
I removed the radiator cap, started the car, put the heat lever on max (but cabin fan still OFF), and I let that thing idle. It idled for about 20 minutes (Atleast) until the fan cam on. While waiting the coolant did start overflowing as I expected.. and then when the fan finally came on it was only on for like couple seconds... then it came back on again sometime later... I topped the fluid off while it was on for ~1min (maybe). After that I considered myself done, put the cap back on and let it run some more for the fan to turn on again... the fan didn't come back on after that.
Since the temp gauge never went above operating I'm still not too worried yet, but what does worry me is the pressure within my cooling system. My hoses seemed to be under more pressure than I remember them being with my old radiator... not sure why but it concerns me for the stress could cut their lives short. I'd hate to have to buy new hoses, but these guys now feel like they're under quite a bit of pressure when I feel them while the engine in idling...
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Re: (sauceja)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sauceja »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">....
The red plug controls your fan coming on and off by temperature. It is called the ECT switch. Engine Coolant Temperature. That is 80% of the causes for civics cooling fans not working.
I have replaced many on customer cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sauceja »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So did you replace the sensor yet??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope.
In reguards to the reply you made in which you included the engine diagram picture... that isn't even my engine... not that it matters but that looks like a d17. Moreover, I strongly believe that 1) The sensor in the thermostat housing controls the fan 2) The sensor in the head controls the temperature gauge. I have no idea what that blue sensor is on that engine you pointed out. I agree w/ what miahmouse said.
However miahmouse spoke of two conditions in which the fan will not come on:
1) If there is AIR in the cooling system.
2) If the thermostat is stuck.
2) If the thermostat were stuck I think either my engine would not warm upto operaing temperature <U>or</U> it would overheat. Right? I read that those are the two sypmtoms of a bad thermostat.
1) As far as there being air in the system... like I said. I tried to bleed that thing.. but I dunno. All I do know is that when I loosened the bleeder screw I got nothing but coolant so I closed it back up. Even took it on the highway today and when I got off the fan still hadn't come on... but the temperature gauge hadn't gone above operating temperature either, so...
The red plug controls your fan coming on and off by temperature. It is called the ECT switch. Engine Coolant Temperature. That is 80% of the causes for civics cooling fans not working.
I have replaced many on customer cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sauceja »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So did you replace the sensor yet??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope.
In reguards to the reply you made in which you included the engine diagram picture... that isn't even my engine... not that it matters but that looks like a d17. Moreover, I strongly believe that 1) The sensor in the thermostat housing controls the fan 2) The sensor in the head controls the temperature gauge. I have no idea what that blue sensor is on that engine you pointed out. I agree w/ what miahmouse said.
However miahmouse spoke of two conditions in which the fan will not come on:
1) If there is AIR in the cooling system.
2) If the thermostat is stuck.
2) If the thermostat were stuck I think either my engine would not warm upto operaing temperature <U>or</U> it would overheat. Right? I read that those are the two sypmtoms of a bad thermostat.
1) As far as there being air in the system... like I said. I tried to bleed that thing.. but I dunno. All I do know is that when I loosened the bleeder screw I got nothing but coolant so I closed it back up. Even took it on the highway today and when I got off the fan still hadn't come on... but the temperature gauge hadn't gone above operating temperature either, so...