methos713

Finished installing a stock rebuild of my D16z6 a couple of days ago. Started the engine, but haven't drove the car yet, because I was doing minor work to the wires in the engine bay. Well today, when I got underneath the car, I see coolent below where the oil filter is at.

Traced up the wet marks, and it was coming from the head where it meets the block. I don't know if its the head gasket or if anything is warped. I did check the block/head w/ a straight edge.

Also, when starting a new engine...is it suppose to smoke from the exhaust...cause I got white smoke. Any help or ideas would be appreciated. TIA.

Update w/ pics on page 2


Modified by methos713 at 7:00 PM 1/14/2008

Im_a_black_man

did you reuse your headgasket?

did you not get the head resurfaced?

did you tourque the headstuds down to the right psi?

methos713

bought new hg, re-surface, and used a tq wrench. Followed the helms too. I'm really bummed out. I'm worried the head or block might be warped. Also, could it be because I didn't use new head bolts. Can the head lift right when you start it?

methos713

I'll take some pics of my oil and post it up.

Hardedge

White smoke means that you're burning coolant in the cylinders, that's not normal. That's my problem right now but I don't have any leaks on the outside so you must have a really bad sealing issue. Start the motor and remove the radiator cap. Rev the engine and see if coolant splashes out. If so, that's one sign of a gasket issue.

Check the coolant for oil and check the oil for coolant. I haven't had this with my blown gasket but if you have it then maybe the gasket was installed improperly. It seems impossible to me to install the gasket the wrong way, but apparently it has happened to people. Did you check all of your bolts for stretch or bends. Check for bends with a straightedge and for stretch by meshing each pair of threads with each other (they should seal, no light shining through). Double check your torque. Did you use an accurate torque wrench? Did you over torque. Did you completely absorb the fluids from your block threads before the install? Did you lube your bolt threads? How much smoke are getting? Is there smoke from the engine bay? Have you run a compression test? Leakdown test?

Get back to me.

SLO Sol

didnt seal properly happend when i did my mini me

Hardedge

You make it sound like the engine just crossed it's arms and threw a hissy fit. Something has to be wrong for it to not seal and that's probably what the OP is trying to figure out. It's clearly been established that it's not sealing.

methos713

well, here's some pics I just took with my valve cover off to see if the oil is milky...is it?? Sorry, just never experience the mixture. I haven't check to see if there is any oil in the rad/coolent. I did torque it to what the helms says...22pounds...then 53pounds. I didn't check for bolt stretch and the old head bolts were re-used. I'll do a compression test tomorrow.














Modified by methos713 at 1:20 AM 12/10/2007

yoffer

sounds like the hg didnt seal properly. Did you use copper spray when you put it on?

Hardedge

Too hard to tell in the pictures. Did you try removing the radiator cap and revving the engine? Did you use the appropriate torque sequence; remember that the loosening sequence and tightening sequence are very different. As far as head bolts go, it may be different for a D but my Helms doesn't say to replace them on a B16A2, they should be reusable provided they're in excellent shape. Just use ARP studs next time.

B18C5-EH2

You don't use copper spray if you do everything by the book.



As for the oil it looks great, but the smoke is a bit worrysome. To me it looks more like oil smoke because in the pics it has a bluish hue to it.

93whtlx

[I didn't check for bolt stretch and the old head bolts were re-used]<U></U>

I always change the head bolts when the head comes off. No matter what vehicle I am working on. even if you measured them, they will still strech when you put them in and tighten them. IMO i would get a new head gasket, change the oil, flush the block and rad. AND GET NEW BOLTS. Just might work.

methos713

yeah, I followed the what the helms says...no copper spray was use. I'm gona try and see if the smoke smells coolent and re-torque the head. If that doesn't work...then I'll be taking the head off. I'll update as I go. Thanks.

methos713

well, here's the head off. Coolent started coming out of exhaust port off cylinder 4 after I loosen the intake manifold. Before I did that, I did check the spark plugs...no sign of coolent. Plus, I used a flashlight to see if there was anything inside each of the cylinder/piston by aiming it into the spark plug holes...a little moisture...but brown, not green.

Compression tested it...180+ on all 4 cylinders...no leak test was done. Only after I lifted the head up did the coolent leak into the cylinders. Didn't drain the coolent. My plans is to have the head resurface. Noob question and cause I'm feeling bummed out from it all....will I have to take everything off the head to get it resurface???

Here's some pics I took...let me know what you guys think....


Leak on exh. port cylinder 4, when I loosen the intake manifold


A look on the inside exh. port 4...


One more....same port


With the head off...I already wipe most of the coolent off piston 4 after I took this pic

yoffer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You don't use copper spray if you do everything by the book.



As for the oil it looks great, but the smoke is a bit worrysome. To me it looks more like oil smoke because in the pics it has a bluish hue to it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, i understand. I didnt use it when i did mine either. I was just always told to, but i know you dont need it. I was just curious to see if he had.

Luserkid

I had this exact same problem with a customers car just recently. Went through 2 headgaskets, and had it resurfaced. Not really sure what happened but the gasket was not sealing. Could have been that the block needed to be decked as well but customer did not wnat to do it. In the end i got a new gasket, put some Indian Gasket, torqued it, let it sit for 30 mins, then started it up and it was fine. I hate honda D series headgaskets. Something that might help you is you could get a metal headgasket through cometic. That will probably seal better then there paper ****.

Incase you are interested this is what Indian Gasket looks like, and i only use it on really bad headgasket jobs.

blaze the chemi

I would call the shop and see what they would like to have as far as the head. When I had mine checked I had everything taken off except for the valve train. The cams and cam holders were taken off since I was rebuilding. This was on a B series. I'm not sure what you have to take off in order to remove the head. Checking the head surface isn't expensive.

Make sure too that when you replace the headgasket that it is on right. I have read where some B series guys put it on upside down

Do worn valve seals cause coolant or oil into the cylinders?

methos713

yeah, I know some B-series guys put the hg on wrong, but this is for my D16z6...and I followed what the helms says. I did replace the valves seals too.

Stripped Honda

i bet you put the head gasket backwards .. i have seen it before ..

methos713

well, is it the black side of the hg facing up? Cause thats how I have it. And everything match...even the holes for the dowels pins.

Hardedge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blaze the chemi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do worn valve seals cause coolant or oil into the cylinders?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oil. It's the oil in the cylinder head that leaks into the guides and makes its way into the cylinder.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> To me it looks more like oil smoke because in the pics it has a bluish hue to it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It could be both if the head gasket seal is bad enough. One trait of smoke resulting from burning coolant is humidity so he should check for that, but it's still possible for oil to get in as well. Then again, it could just look that way in the picture because of lighting and the gray concrete.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by methos713 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Noob question and cause I'm feeling bummed out from it all....will I have to take everything off the head to get it resurface???</TD></TR></TABLE>

The head will have to be stripped except for the guides, but whether or not you have to do it depends on where you take it. Take it somewhere that specializes in cylinder heads and they might remove the springs and valves for you. Just call the place first and ask questions.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by methos713 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, is it the black side of the hg facing up? Cause thats how I have it. And everything match...even the holes for the dowels pins.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If everything matches perfectly then it should be right. Unless D engines have perfectly symmetrical decks, but I'm gonna doubt that.

methos713

yeah, just took the head to the machine shop that specialize in engine work. They told me that leaving just the valves, springs, retainers is alright...but rockers/cams had to be taken out. Let see if resurfacing the head will work. Plus, I just ordered some arp head studs from lightning...I'm not taking any chances of having another leak.

Also, I've been wondering about this...how did coolent get into exh. port #4 when I loosen the intake manifold? Cause before I did that, nothing was in there...the exh. ports did have moisture on them though. That's been bugging me.

I'll post pics as I go. Any feedback is still appreciated.

Hardedge

I don't know about your car but my B16A2 has a coolant channel that goes through the manifold near cylinder #4. I'm not sure exactly how coolant would move over into the port during removal, unless it didn't and you just have a crack somewhere around there, though not likely.

Also, when you're ready to install your studs, ask about installation on here to see what methods have worked for people because the ARP instructions aren't exactly the best in the world.

methos713

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hardedge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know about your car but my B16A2 has a coolant channel that goes through the manifold near cylinder #4.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, my motor has that too. I'm guessing from that then...since I didnt' drain the coolent, and when I did loosen/move the IM...coolent was gushing out.

Also, would the hg still be reusable, since it only seen 8 startups...lasting only up to 5mins?

Hardedge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by methos713 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, would the hg still be reusable, since it only seen 8 startups...lasting only up to 5mins?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hm, probably best not to. It's one thing to install the head and then remove it without ever running the engine, but given how much you've run it and also how much coolant and possibly oil have squeezed past it, you should replace it. Just so you know, I've found http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com to have the lowest prices. I just bought a B16A2 head gasket from them, saving over $10 over dealer prices.