DSMAddicted

Guys,
The manual steering rack on my CX needs to be replaced.

Can help me decide whether or not it is worth to swap in a power steering (and perhaps perform the MR2 electric steering conversion) since I have to replace the manual rack regardless?

The car is my daily driver and I got used to manual steering, although I often wonder how much easier certain maneuvers would be if I had PS. Also... I don't do any autocross with it, although I don't exclude that in the future and I wonder how much it would impact the experience (I am thinking countersteering etc).

Besides sharing the Pros and Cons in your opinion, could you also help me gauge the entity of the project and how much weight do you think it would add?

Thanks for the insight!

kaiba

Leave it manual.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

My wife had to drive my car for a while and she got used to the power steering. Weight is negligible. I hate driving non-power steering cars.

94EG8

If you're going to swap in a power rack grab one from a '94 - '97 Integra (note that all the lines and resorvoir need to come from a '94 - '97 Integra as well, '98 - '01 wont work nor will '92 - '95 Civic) It's fair bit quicker lock to lock than a Civic rack. You'll also need a subframe from a '92 - '95 Civic with power steering or one from a '94 - '01 Integra (the Integra subframe has nice extra brace that civic lacks, but it's otherwise identical) You'll also need a crank pulley off a D15B7.

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

I think you should go power, esp for a daily. Nicer driving at slow speeds such as parking lots and driveways. You will lose a couple HP if you retrofit.

The electric MR2 retro is a distinct possibility though I believe it requires an on/off switch for best results. User fungus mungus has this setup.

DSMAddicted

Thanks for sharing your thoughts so far guys. Replies inline...

What's the reasoning behind your suggestion?

I hear you and I admit I miss PS, but then again I've been driving her like this for almost 5 years and gotten somewhat used to it. A part of me likes the CX's simplicity. This is in part why I am so undecided.

Great info, thanks man. So the 94-97 Integra rack upgrade applies to power steering only, correct? Are there *any* manual rack upgrades from other Hondas/Acuras that would improve my steering if I decide to stay manual? Aftermarket-wise, I know about the Quaife but I am concerned it will make static steering (like parking) even harder.

I checked the FAQ but didn't find a thread about fitting a CX with power steering. I will certainly do more research, but do you know how involved it is? Do I need to take apart half of my dash to change the column as well?

94EG8

Correct.

No, The Integras all had power steering. and nothing else fits.

HatchbackSqueegee

I removed the Power Steering on my 94 si and replaced it with a CX manual. It is noticeably tougher to turn at low speeds but nothing unbearable.

I did notice slight increased in power. Also you have to take into you have one less piece of equipment to worry about. No need to top off fluid or change it, no belt to wear out or replace. And your MPG slightly increase with less parasitic drag on the engine.

The opposite would happen when installing Power steering. Less MPG, Less HP to wheels, More maintenance.

Another way you can look at it is 2 MPG loss over 100,000 miles on a car that avg 32mpg (dropped down to 30mpg). You would lose 208 gallons of gas at current CA price of $4 (I'm sure its going up not down) a gallon would = $832 in gas cost increases + Parts + install + maintenance cost (belts and fluid). If all that is worth it to you than go for it.

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

^ Good to throw some numbers in the mix.

That's about an extra $100 per year in fuel assuming 12,000 mi/yr. Ask your wife to kick in 100 for cost of ownership per year and see if she objects to that. Might be a little less since you have a CX and the fuel economy is likely > 32 mpg.

Izo

What is the value of staying alive and healthy in a near crash incident where you use the PS to avoid getting killed or injured? Do your drive your kids in this car? Does your wife? Do you have a life insurance policy? Seriously, not having PS is not worth those few 'saved' $$.

94EG8

You'd have an argument if this was something meant to have power steering. When you have a manual rack they steer just fine, I've driven lots of them, at any kind of speed they steer quite easily, even stopped they really aren't that hard to steer, it certainly wouldn't help you much in most accident avoidance situations.

Izo

If they're equally easy to steer (require same effort), then they must be geared differently as one is assisted and the other is not. That would imply you'd have to turn the wheel more on a non-ps for the same effect. How is this not a safety issue?
Cars still kill at low speeds - It's harder to turn the manual the lower the speed, no? How is this not a safety issue?
Granted, it's probably a bitch to convert a non-ps to ps. I'd scrap it and get a car that has ps from the factory - At least for daily usage - Track is something else :-)

94EG8

They are, manual racks are slower turning lock to lock

It's just not an issue, you're looking at maybe an extra turn lock to lock at most.

When we're talking low speed we're talking sub 5 miles an hour, anything above that and it steers quite easily.

It's not that hard to swap in a power rack at all, your argument is absolutely ridiculous though, no one's going to junk a car because it's marginally less safe than something else. Honda sold a ton of these things without power steering, they were safe enough.

Izo

Slower turning => slower reaction => more accidents. Stop pretending it's equally safe. If it was equally safe modern cars wouldn't have this, no?
It is not universally true for all cars that say 5 mph is the turning point. Weight, width, suspension, track, feedback is a factor. I could say it was 30 mph - That would not make it a universal truth either for all situations - Precisely why PS > non-ps with regards to safety.
Anyway, scrapping the car might be a step to far, I donno. Where I live (Northen Europe) you'd consider it a hazard not to have ps. Regardless, I recommend getting a car with ps for daily usage - Or at least swap ps in, if it's that easy to do :-)

B18C EG6

Manual for racing and P/S for parking......
I would leave it manual just have your own rack recond if its wanked.
I had manual in my old ED and I loved it. More power, less weight
and more feel through the steering wheel. Just about to convert my
EG to manual also. Much easier to do with the engine out.
Manual racks are for real drivers!! =D

94EG8

It might not be equally safe, but it's insignificant, really, you're making this out to be a much bigger deal than it is.

Customers wanted P/S, it never had anything to do with safety, people just didn't like having to use more effort to turn the wheel.

We're talking about 5th gen civic hatchbacks here, they're all more or less the same, yes if you run wide sticky tires it will be harder to turn at low speeds, but assuming stock tires after about 5mph they're very easy to steer, like I said I drove lots of them. Look you could make the argument that having a manual rack is safer since there's essentially nothing to go wrong with it, say for example the belt for the power steering pump broke and you had no power steering, you could turn quicker with a manual rack, or say the car shut off, same thing, they're ridiculous arguments, but just as true.

Don't most of those tin cans you guys drive over there have manual steering? Most of the European cars I see are tiny.

B18C EG6

Almost all fifth gen Civics over here have P/S.
Manual racks are rare as rocking horse ****!!

slowturbocx

I switched my CX to a gsr p/s. It was so worth it. I drive my car everyday and it's just so much easier and friendly to drive.

SlayANT

It comes down to your choice. I've added PS to my EK via a ex steering rack mated to an integra's steering pinion. All the benefits of a power with little sacrifice to the steering ratio. Is it worth yet? For me, yea.

Parts you'll need:

1. PS steering Rack
2. PS Pump w/ bracket and bolts
3. PS Reservoir
4. PS Lines ( high and low )
5. PS Belt
6. Alignment when you're done.

Izo

I've watched over quite a few in respirators after accidents. I've seen it more times than I think anyone should. I don't take lightly to safety equipment or equipment that makes it safer to drive.
That's just confounding on the basis of comfort. That does not discredit my statement.
One person hardly constitute an average. Anyway, ask some of the physically weaker drivers (Your better half perhaps?) how they feel about non-ps with regards to safety.
You could drive a bicycle too. It has less parts that break, but it's not safer. Just cause the MTBF is higher does not mean it's safer while it works. Your statement goes towards durability which albeit related is NOT the same. Also inspecting and maintaining the function of the ps is in your service manual. Really.
Sigh. I expected more from a resident of Ca-na-duh. Close to 100% here (Northern Europe) are with ps. Nice try though.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

I own a coupe WITH and a hatch WITHOUT. I don't consider one to more more/less safe than the other. This suggestion that one is not as safe as the other almost borders on the preposterous.

HatchbackSqueegee

Power steering is not for safety at all! Power Steering was invented because cars where getting to bloated and fat with extra weight! The avg. person could not (or very least did not feel comfortable) turning the front wheels of a 3000+ pound tank of a car at low speeds (sub 5 mph).

You really should look up why it was invented!

I don't doubt that PS helps with driving slow in northern europe with pothole riddled roads. But your not going to wreck without PS that's an insanely crazy notion!

Izo

No one is doubting that PS in addition to being a safety equipment is also a tool of convenience as you good folks of HT describe it :-)

However 'why' something is invented has nothing to do with it's actual properties. Please go back to grade school if you don't understand this.

Also 'when' it is standard / more often than not is again confounding. Airbags didn't use to be standard did they? Seriously people, it's not that surprising that cost is such a big player with regards to options.

I don't feel like quoting more than this naive statement:
Really? Do you know that 'much' about Northern Europe? You make me laugh.
Also you need spectacles. I've been arguing that you can benefit from PS vs non-PS in the event of a near crash incident, not that that you crash without ps.
Enough already.

DSMAddicted

Holy cow!

Thanks for clarifying.

That is true. That's why I was considering the electric one from the MR2 if anything. But then again this thread was just to get a general idea and make sure I don't waste time and money on a stock manual rack if I could have done an easy and useful upgrade instead.

Hehe. That's why I am not married with kids.

B18C motor, but yes, mileage is averaging over 32mpg interestingly enough.

Thanks for the useful insight guys.

scuzz

I went to bone yard and got power steering rack and plumbing from 94 LX and put it on my 95 DX hatchback.
It was a pretty lengthy changeover, but well worth it. I drive mostly city and in and out of parking spaces. It really made live a lot easier.
I had to take exhaust down and left axle shaft out, remove right tie rod from power rack to get old out and new in.
The plumbing is a little of bitch to get from bottom to top, but far from impossible.
Nothing else special or changing out sub frames, just a couple days labor and 40.00 worth of junk yard parts.
And yes, front pulley needs changing and you need bracket with power steering pump.
I didn't notice any drop in mpg or performance.