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Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

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Old 01-11-2018, 02:14 PM   #1
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Default Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

https://automotiveknd.com/products/h...version-system

"Complete" - still some OEM parts that would be needed to do the swap but it comes with all(?) the parts typically needed for the conversion including RTA and the rear sub frame. Retains use of OEM control arms, shocks/struts, and camber arms.

This is very surprising and interesting to me, I had no idea something like this was on the market. I would love to undertake a conversion like this, but for me having to relocate the gas tank into the hatch is a deal breaker for my application.

Anyone have thoughts on this (the kit in general)? I doubt anyone has really used this kit or will be able to review it, but it's an enticing offer in my opinion. Seems like a decent price, and although I'm no expert on AWD conversions this seems like it would streamline the process quite a bit...

If only there were a way to keep the fuel cell under the car.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

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https://automotiveknd.com/products/h...version-system

"Complete" - still some OEM parts that would be needed to do the swap but it comes with all(?) the parts typically needed for the conversion including RTA and the rear sub frame. Retains use of OEM control arms, shocks/struts, and camber arms.

This is very surprising and interesting to me, I had no idea something like this was on the market. I would love to undertake a conversion like this, but for me having to relocate the gas tank into the hatch is a deal breaker for my application.

Anyone have thoughts on this (the kit in general)? I doubt anyone has really used this kit or will be able to review it, but it's an enticing offer in my opinion. Seems like a decent price, and although I'm no expert on AWD conversions this seems like it would streamline the process quite a bit...

If only there were a way to keep the fuel cell under the car.
Go autoworks style engine bay fuel cell
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:55 PM   #3
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Go autoworks style engine bay fuel cell
If my build was a race-only application I would have no hesitations to using either something like that which tucks in the OEM battery location or fender, or even just a full cell in the rear hatch.

1.8Gal isn't enough for a weekend warrior though, and although I don't think I'll be daily driving my Civic I always want to leave it more inclined as a sporty street ride than anything track-dedicated. Huge part of why I like the hatchbacks too is deleting the rear seats and getting that nice flat-panel back, which the fuel cell would ruin.

Anyway. I still think this is a freaking awesome kit. Based on the photos, drive shaft and axle angles look great.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

I have been following their facebook page since nearly day one, it is pretty cool and seems like a good way to do an rt4wd/awd conversion. I am pretty sure they are still in the testing phase and are accepting orders. The idea of a full bolt on conversion that could be done in your garage in a short period of time is great. I am glad that someone actually took the time to come up with a design.
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:38 PM   #5
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I have been following their facebook page since nearly day one, it is pretty cool and seems like a good way to do an rt4wd/awd conversion. I am pretty sure they are still in the testing phase and are accepting orders. The idea of a full bolt on conversion that could be done in your garage in a short period of time is great. I am glad that someone actually took the time to come up with a design.
At some point I might seriously try to justify buying another DC2 or Civic just to do this swap in... Especially since RHD shells are starting to get easier to come by in the states.

Turbo, AWD, RHD Civic/Integra? That's like every Honda guy's wet dream lol, and it could be very attainable here soon.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

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At some point I might seriously try to justify buying another DC2 or Civic just to do this swap in... Especially since RHD shells are starting to get easier to come by in the states.

Turbo, AWD, RHD Civic/Integra? That's like every Honda guy's wet dream lol, and it could be very attainable here soon.
The only thing really stopping me from doing it too my EM1 is lack of space. I also can't bring myself to put approx $5k additional (that includes the cost of some of the additional tools I would need to complete the conversion) into it after I have that in buying the car and bringing up to where it is currently performance wise. I would have nearly $15k in my EM1 by that point and it would only be an N/A set up, so awd would be overkill, but still fun.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:08 AM   #7
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

Oh dude...
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

Running a B adds $530, hmm...

Go K swap at the same time?
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

scratching my head. In about 2 - 3 more yrs I might as well just pick up a jdm rti sedan and a vti b16 auto sedan and just mate the two to create a b16 awd system running a b20 awd automatic and have me some fun.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

So I've been thinking about this AWD conversion myself and seen this kit about 6 months ago. Here is the problem I have seen so far, A they don't make a subframe for EK's. On their site you will notice a drop selection for 96-01 Civic but that is not true, go to the subframe selection and do the drop down menu, there is no selection for EK. Problem number 1.

Problem number two: is the fact that if you want to call these guys there is no contact number you have to email them or somehow try and contact via Facebook. Why not have a contact number to call so you can discuss options etc.

Problem number three: I have had some fabricators look at their stuff online and they think it looks a bit weak not to mention they have a couple youtube videos of them making the initial product and install on a customer car but in all honesty I am not all that impressed.

I would not option for this kit until I actually see the kit on multiple cars and their kits making real passes and getting a bunch of reviews. I really want to do the AWD conversion because I really think this is the way to go especially if I would like to see 7's but like another person said I may wait a year or so to do this.

I have contacted CLM who has that 7 second green EG and asked if they would be willing to build me rear training arms and they declined. Seems like it is still pretty secretive on doing this work unless you want to spend the time and money to fab this up.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

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A they don't make a subframe for EK's. On their site you will notice a drop selection for 96-01 Civic but that is not true, go to the subframe selection and do the drop down menu, there is no selection for EK.
Serious??

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Problem number 1.
Where's B, C, D and E

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Problem number two: is the fact that if you want to call these guys there is no contact number you have to email them or somehow try and contact via Facebook. Why not have a contact number to call so you can discuss options etc.
Well, if they're fabbers they don't answer phones. You just have to make due with what they have to offer when it comes to contacting. I've seen online sellers don't offer a # nor an email but rather you go through their forum ticketing system. They shipped me the wrong car alarm and it took them a while to fix because their specific web page told me the wrong thing.

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Problem number two: is the fact that if you want to call these guys there is no contact number you have to email them or somehow try and contact via Facebook. Why not have a contact number to call so you can discuss options etc.

Problem number three: I have had some fabricators look at their stuff online and they think it looks a bit weak not to mention they have a couple youtube videos of them making the initial product and install on a customer car but in all honesty I am not all that impressed.

I would not option for this kit until I actually see the kit on multiple cars and their kits making real passes and getting a bunch of reviews. I really want to do the AWD conversion because I really think this is the way to go especially if I would like to see 7's but like another person said I may wait a year or so to do this.

I have contacted CLM who has that 7 second green EG and asked if they would be willing to build me rear training arms and they declined. Seems like it is still pretty secretive on doing this work unless you want to spend the time and money to fab this up.
Product may look weak but so far no one that has purchased it has spoken out, or they built their own, or they went oem.

CLM probably didn't want to be held liable so yeah there's that.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:52 AM   #12
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

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Serious??



Where's B, C, D and E



Well, if they're fabbers they don't answer phones. You just have to make due with what they have to offer when it comes to contacting. I've seen online sellers don't offer a # nor an email but rather you go through their forum ticketing system. They shipped me the wrong car alarm and it took them a while to fix because their specific web page told me the wrong thing.



Product may look weak but so far no one that has purchased it has spoken out, or they built their own, or they went oem.

CLM probably didn't want to be held liable so yeah there's that.
True about CLM likely not wanting to take a risk making a 1 off custom product like that. Too much liability for too minor of a profit margin.

Tubular designs often look weaker than they actually are. That being said though, I can see how this setup looks a bit "skeletal" compared to what the OEM system has back there. No way to tell how it all holds up without seeing/driving it firsthand.

EG Subframe should still be easy to swap if desired.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Complete Tubular AWD Conversion Kit for Civic

This place is supposedly a shop that works on customer cars and has created a bolt on AWD kit for Hondas. To not have a phone number to contact them is pretty lame, the only contact is by email which again is lame. To have a website with a drop down menu to purchase this kit you have the selection of 96-01, yet they don't actually have that kit available right now?

Seems pretty odd to me, as far as how these kits work again it's hard to say. They posted like 10 2 minute videos of a customer car they were putting this on and the last 2 minute video they shared looked like the car barely ran.

I have looked all over for customer reviews, videos anything on this kit and the only thing that comes up is the company site with 6 pictures of the same customer EG and the videos are the same customer EG.

Just saying doesn't seem like I would want to send 4 g's to this company YET.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:15 PM   #14
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This place is supposedly a shop that works on customer cars and has created a bolt on AWD kit for Hondas. To not have a phone number to contact them is pretty lame, the only contact is by email which again is lame. To have a website with a drop down menu to purchase this kit you have the selection of 96-01, yet they don't actually have that kit available right now?

Seems pretty odd to me, as far as how these kits work again it's hard to say. They posted like 10 2 minute videos of a customer car they were putting this on and the last 2 minute video they shared looked like the car barely ran.

I have looked all over for customer reviews, videos anything on this kit and the only thing that comes up is the company site with 6 pictures of the same customer EG and the videos are the same customer EG.

Just saying doesn't seem like I would want to send 4 g's to this company YET.
Definitely know what you're saying. And I agree honestly, they should have a phone number, even if it's just a number you leave a voicemail on they can call you back from. I feel like dropping $3->$4K should buy you that right, lol.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:35 PM   #15
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Definitely know what you're saying. And I agree honestly, they should have a phone number, even if it's just a number you leave a voicemail on they can call you back from. I feel like dropping $3->$4K should buy you that right, lol.
For damn sure. I mean it would be great to buy a kit that you see other guys running with success. This place I've never heard about before, anyone I've asked have never heard or even knew about this place.

I just get worried that this place is either BS or 4 grand later I get a kit that sucks or needs to be modified or beefed up. I'm not a fabricator so I would have to heavily rely on a fabricator to do this for me the right way. I mean you can rig stuff up to work with a few hundred horsepower but I am talking about wanting to run 1200 horsepower with an AWD setup.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:00 PM   #16
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For damn sure. I mean it would be great to buy a kit that you see other guys running with success. This place I've never heard about before, anyone I've asked have never heard or even knew about this place.

I just get worried that this place is either BS or 4 grand later I get a kit that sucks or needs to be modified or beefed up. I'm not a fabricator so I would have to heavily rely on a fabricator to do this for me the right way. I mean you can rig stuff up to work with a few hundred horsepower but I am talking about wanting to run 1200 horsepower with an AWD setup.
And that's where my knowledge fails me, I don't know enough about these systems or what it would take to reinforce them for power that large.

What would it take to fit an 8.8 Ford rear diff back there? Obviously the rear axles would need to change, and the mounts/carrier for the diff itself....

Not sure what could be done to the OEM Wagovan/Element/CR-V gears either to reinforce them. Shotpeening? Not sure. I know Puddymod on S2KI has had a lot of success with reinforced S2000 differentials, but I'm not familiar with his process.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:25 PM   #17
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And that's where my knowledge fails me, I don't know enough about these systems or what it would take to reinforce them for power that large.

What would it take to fit an 8.8 Ford rear diff back there? Obviously the rear axles would need to change, and the mounts/carrier for the diff itself....

Not sure what could be done to the OEM Wagovan/Element/CR-V gears either to reinforce them. Shotpeening? Not sure. I know Puddymod on S2KI has had a lot of success with reinforced S2000 differentials, but I'm not familiar with his process.
Yeah Locash was wondering about the Ford rear but not sure how that would all work out. All I know is CLM somehow is making Honda stuff work for 1300 horsepower and running mid 7's.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:37 PM   #18
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Yeah Locash was wondering about the Ford rear but not sure how that would all work out. All I know is CLM somehow is making Honda stuff work for 1300 horsepower and running mid 7's.
R200 differential would also work and probably be easier to fit in the given space... Hmm.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:49 PM   #19
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True about CLM likely not wanting to take a risk making a 1 off custom product like that. Too much liability for too minor of a profit margin.

Tubular designs often look weaker than they actually are. That being said though, I can see how this setup looks a bit "skeletal" compared to what the OEM system has back there. No way to tell how it all holds up without seeing/driving it firsthand.

EG Subframe should still be easy to swap if desired.
Food for thought, tube items have been used in offroad vehicles. Google images of bumpers, trail gear, etc...etc...
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:23 AM   #20
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I finally took a look at their website and their kit and I gotta say it leaves a lot to be desired. First off it is a "bolt in" kit. You make any crazy HP with that kit and you are going to rip it right out of the unibody. I guarantee everything CLM is using it fully welded. Also, that kit places the rear diff too far forward, placing the angles of the CV joints in a not so optimal position. When placing the drive train under load, it forces the the axles rearward into the outer CV joints and out of the inner CV joints. I wonder what CV boots they are using because those angles are definitely taxing on the inner boots. CLM is using custom axles and CV joints and I'll bet the rear diff is positioned so that the axles perpendicular to the diff and axle hubs.

I like the tubular idea for the RTAs, but I do not like they way they attached the front of them (where the toe adjustment should be) to the body. It does not look solid at all especially if you are driving the vehicle anywhere other than down the 1/4 mile strip. What's the point of using a strong tubular design when the attachment points are weak? I guess I really don't know because of yet another problem... they don't provide nearly enough pictures or information on their system. Are they expecting people to be ok with spending that much money and diving into this thing blind? Maybe.

OK, what driveline are they offering with their system? Is it a modified Wagovan driveline? If it is, you shouldn't be using it with any other differential than the Wagovan differential. The Wagovan driveline uses a viscous coupler, and the CR-V rear diff utilizes a clutch pack and pumps. It's over kill and unnecessary to use both. $650 for a modified factory driveline?!?! DAMN! You can pick up a used CR-V driveline and take it to a driveline shop, have it shortened, Chevy 1500 u-joints installed, and balanced for $250-300 believe me.

And y'all know that after you spend that $3-4K on the system, you still need to drop the coin on and AWD trans whether it is a B or a K. Plan on spending $600-1000 on that and more if you want to beef it up. Don't forget you shifter and linkage to match.

Oh, one more complaint... They didn't make any provisions to utilize a rear sway bar. Ever driven one of these cars without a rear sway bar? Feels like ****.

IDK, could be a good starter kit, but not for that price... My 10 cents anyways.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:06 AM   #21
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waiting on some other member to try this out

so far nothing
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:48 AM   #22
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All very good points & observation Darry. It would definitely be VERY helpful for more information/photos/content from the manufacturer.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:54 AM   #23
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I also stumbled across their web page recently. Seems we had an accident with my fresh built k20 trans and since I have all the wagovan parts I was considering taking the plunge. I still believe I will go with my own custom fab work over this kit. I plan to follow 93egboosted's build as it seems to be a nice clean and strong setup. Here's a link to it if anyone hasn't read it already.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/appear...build-3187587/

If anyone knows information about mating a k series trans and wagovan rear diff in terms of final drive ratios please let me know. all I can find is the wagovan final drive is 4.40 then another member proved that wrong with something in the neighborhood of 4.5xx final drive. Idk though. I can get a 4.39 final drive for a k series transmission which is super close.

This isn't meant to be a thread jack, if anything just adding some helpful information!
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:05 PM   #24
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Yeah, like I said after looking at that website I do not see any real information as far as customer reviews. Hell even if these guys had a shop car with this kit on it promoting it at the track and putting some real work in.

CLM doesn't even offer a kit but based on their Section 8 hatchback and seeing the success I would trust taking my car to them to get work done. Now if they produced a kit I'm sure they could sell the crap out of them based on their shop car alone.

I got some word from my buddy who may be developing a kit, so at this point I am going to wait it out and see if he actually does this. We also may be looking into the b-series CRV trans to see if it is possible to utilize a PPG gear set.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:48 PM   #25
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A few guys on k20a.org Facebook page are saying they got ripped off by AKD for a few thousand. Just an FYI.

Edit: also, FCS says they are releasing their kit this month .
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