mechanik

Ok. My buddy and I have done about 4 good clutch jobs on 99-00 Si's B series motors no problem.

My friend with a 93 Civic EX SOHC needed a new clutch right before winter. I didn't really know him back then, and he took it to Honda for them to do a new clutch. Honda installed new clutch for about $600!!!

Anyway, as of lately, his clutch I believe he said was "sorta slipping" I don't think that much at all. Keep in mind I can't see that he put more than 6 or 7 K miles since the new clutch. He doesn't really beat on the car. But the biggest problem is that the tranny would make a rubbing metal type of noise when the car was in neutral, and sometimes when shifting. Some shop that put on his Ground Controls said that it was probably his throw out bearing. Seemed logical.

Ok, so my buddy and I ripped out his tranny. We discovered that our Honda dealer did a SHITTY job at this clutch. It was missing a 19mm rear tranny mount, another small front arm mount bolt that holds a bar on the block and the tranny. The other one was in cross threaded, so it broke when we removed it. Also the boot that goes around the fork outside the tranny housing near the slave cylinder was missing.... hhmm.. Honda screwed it up. When we got the tranny out, one of the notches to hold the throw out bearing on the fork was broke, as you can see in the picture. I also noticed that the fork that pushes the throw out bearing has some burrs where the notches sit, but I didnt think it was that bad. We also saw that the flywheel bolts were burred and some of the notches on the 12 point star were stripped. The flywheel was resurfaced by them.




On the stock pressure plate we noticed that the fins on the pressure plate, half of them bent in some, not lined up with the others. You can also notice the marks that the bearing left.



Ok, so we install new bearings and the new clutch. Everything was torqued back to spec, and all the bolts that we had were reinstalled. Because it's sunday, and our buddy had to leave, we didn't worry about the missing bolts. So we start up the car, put everything back together, and the clutch feels great. So we start to drive and the "rubbing" or "kinda grinding" noise is still there only when in neutral idling. If the clutch is engaged, the noise goes away. The noise is there, but goes away at times mostly in first. Second and Third gear the noise is gone. To get a better idea of the noise, http://home.attbi.com/~mechanik08/soundofclutch.MPG i took an MPEG of the noise with my camera.

Sorry this is so long, but what do you people suspect? I don't think it would be our couple of missing bolts, as the noise goes away when clutch is engaged. What if they cut the flywheel too much? Would that cause it?

Thanks for replies!


[Modified by mechanik, 12:29 AM 4/29/2002]

mechanik

Forum moves fast - TTT!

DragII

which bolts are you missing?

Bumnah

did you check the bolts that hold the flywheel to the crank?

a buddy of mine had the same problem, turned out the folks didn't torque the bolt down properly, so the clutch/flywheel assembly was moving around.

we found scuff marks all ove the tranny inner housing. not fun to fix.

that's about the only thing I can think? did you grease up the throw out bearing nicely?

sshaikh01

The mpeg noise you took is a pic of the clutch

monsta

Man, I have the same funky *** noise, I think it has something to do with the TB and the presure plate, did you replace the Presure plate, also what bolts are you missing??


Jesse

EVIL Hx Coupe

This happened to me once but it was when i pressed the clutch. I didn't fix anything it just went away. I went to a mechanic the other day and My pressure plate is bad and so is my throw out bearing.

sek311

hey that's a nice mpeg! what kind of camera?

which honda dealership was it?

well getting to the point it sounds pretty damn bad. Did you check the flywheel? use a micrometer or a straight edge. if the clutch before took a **** a lot of the time it'll take the flywheel with it. I can't really tell if the sound is a rubbing sound or a clanking one. if it's rubbing it could be the throw out bearing or the fork could be bent. clanking could be caused by a warped of loose flywheel.. remember.. loc-tite is your friend!

mechanik

We were missing a rear 19mm mount bolt, as well as a short "arm" that goes into the tranny into the block in the front of the engine.

I guess we will have to rip this apart again and see what's up. Do you think it could be the flywheel was resurfaced out of spec too much? I'll recheck the flywheel bolts, but i'm 99.7% sure I torqued them all down to around 87 ft ibs.

The dealer is DUTHLER HONDA in Grand Rapids MI.

We replaced the stock clutch with an EXEDY clutch kit. We got a new Pressure Plate, throw out bearing, and pilot bearing along with the clutch disc. We did grease up the throw out bearing.

Any other ideas?

The camera is a SONY MAVICA MVC-FD87 I think... or 85. I bought it brand new at my store for $99.00 It went clearance

Oh yeah, my movie mpeg is at http://home.attbi.com/~mechanik08/soundofclutch.MPG


[Modified by mechanik, 2:44 PM 4/29/2002]


[Modified by mechanik, 2:44 PM 4/29/2002]

Mista Bone

I wanna say loose flywheel bolts (17mm @ 87 ft/lbs) or the fact the flywheel may not have been correctly reground. Check the step specs.

That or a VERY bad input shaft bearing.

NOTE TO SELF.....during current clutch/flywheel install I though flywheel boltsgot 47-50, must redo ASAP!

CIVIX

Did you use a PILOT TOOL to put the fly wheel and pressure plate back on. If you didn't they might not be aligned and you could run into some problems.

mechanik

When the guy gets back, i'll wiggle the flywheel as much as I can from outside the tranny, but I am about 99.9 % sure I torqued all bolts to 87 ft-ibs. I went in a circle, and when i was sure i made it all the way around, I went to the first one i torqued and sure enough, it was torqued.

In the Tech forum, two guys there are very confident the mainshaft in the tranny is bad. Needs to be replaced. I agree with them, because I'm 99.9% sure the clutch job we did was fine. We used the clutch aligning tool to put the disc and pressure plate on.

We've done 4 other clutches no problem, and he had this noise before, and even after we fixed the bad pressure plate, throw out bearing, and etc, the noise is still there.

HXMan

You guys know where to get a clutch alignment tool? I am in need of one.

Mista Bone

Tranny will not EVEN bolt up if alignment is off.

Mad HXman, I cut the input shaft in two from a tranny that KILLED a input shaft bearing and ruined the mainshaft.

BEST DAMN alignment tool!


[Modified by Mista Bone, 8:07 AM 4/30/2002]

HXMan

Do you have any pics of this alignment tool?? I do have a bad tranny just laying here I could use.....

ImportechPerformance

Okay guys I am not a clutch expert by no means but I know for a fact that I read something on here that was taliking about this problem with the Excedy clutches.
Something about them not fitting totally correct and them rattlin at low RPM or something like that....dont you guys remember??? I suggest doing a search under Excedy Clutches.
latz

fixhondas

Your link is to a picture- you say the noise is there in neutral and goes away with the clutch engaged- did you mean to say disengaged (pedal to the floor) If so it is probably input shaft bearings. Sorry about your luck with the dealer (figures)- I would have taken it right back to them. Anyhow- send me the noise file if you can- then I can maybe offer more firm advice.

About the Exedy clutch noise- Mine does it- it is from the stiffer than stock clutch hub springs- The noise is actually the gears in the tranny getting "excited" under decel. S2000 make this noise really loud- and there is an updated disc that helps the noise but not much. According to Honda it has no negative effects on the transmission.


[Modified by fixhondas, 9:37 PM 4/30/2002]

Rocket

That's some pimp info Fix

Those damn springs in the hub are more trouble than they are worth IMO.

Go with a solid disc with some kevlar and let the kevlar do the dampening.


[Modified by Rocket, 1:18 AM 5/1/2002]

mechanik

The movie is located at http://home.attbi.com/~mechanik08/soundofclutch.MPG

I don't think there is anything wrong with the clutch. I think it's the main shaft in the tranny. I'll have to rip it apart again and check for play.

Rocket

Clak, Clak, Clak, Clak, Clak, .... That's an ill tranny. I am starting to think that the civic hydros are prone to this. I've got one in my garage with oil all over the inside of the bell housing and when I grab the input shaft it has some considerable play.


Hopefully, the gears are not screwed up. Most trannies I've torn apart that had a bad main bearing had broken gears. The counter shaft "floats" in between the mainshaft and the differential. If the bearings for either go bad then they don't properly hold the countershaft in alignment and the gears suffer.


Good luck.

Mista Bone

Mad HXMan.........




I just pulled the gear cluster out and cut the shaft about where the input shaft bearing rides.

BTW that shaft is of killer metal. It will take time to cut through even with air cutoff and a new disc.

fixhondas

That sounds terrible man- you'll definitely be tearing it down for diagnosis.