tomu06

so i fill up my gas tank.. get back in my car, put the key in.. here a wierd noise.. and my car doesnt start up.. just a click from the starter.. one click no more.. i diddled w/ it for almost 2 hours, unplugging the brain, reading the manuals.. everything.. so finally my friend tells me to jump start it.. so he pushes me, and i drop the clutch and ya.. starts right up.. is this my starter.. or a gay *** mode on the alarm that WONT shut off!

GS-R Civic

Well since is started up right away when you jumped it I would say it is a problem with the alarm system. Is the starter kill hooked up? Is it hooked up correctly? Check your wiring. Make sure your battery is in prober working order. Good luck!

Gadget

hook a test light to your trigger wire on the starter and ground the other wire to the engine or batt.. try starting the car like normal.. if the light turns on when you try to start it, replace the starter.. if not, check your alarm/starter kill..

tomu06

ok, my question.. how do i turn OFF the starter kill.. i've pretty much distinguished that it IS the starter kill/cut mode on my alarm.. no where in a manual or anything does it tell me where to shut it off. wouldnt unplugging the brain over night.. be enough to restart it.. or is there a hidden switch.. im lost

Gadget

you have to know a little about wiring..

If you remove the lower dash cover (Where your knees would be) you'll see all kinds of wires.. there should be 4-5 wires going to a plug on the top right of the fuse box that come from the IGN switch.. somewhere in there you should see some crimp connectors where someone spliced in a bosch style relay on one of the IGN switch wires.. There's no real way to "Disable" the starter kill.. If your alarm is trippin out, unplugging the alarm MIGHT enable the car again.. If it's wired the opposite way, the only way you can really disable it is by cutting the relay out and reconnecting the starter wire that was originally cut..

Rather than guessing what the problem is, you should save yourself the headache and work, and test the starter trigger wire with a test light first..

NismoGriff

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gadget &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you have to know a little about wiring..

If you remove the lower dash cover (Where your knees would be) you'll see all kinds of wires.. there should be 4-5 wires going to a plug on the top right of the fuse box that come from the IGN switch.. somewhere in there you should see some crimp connectors where someone spliced in a bosch style relay on one of the IGN switch wires.. There's no real way to "Disable" the starter kill.. If your alarm is trippin out, unplugging the alarm MIGHT enable the car again.. If it's wired the opposite way, the only way you can really disable it is by cutting the relay out and reconnecting the starter wire that was originally cut..

Rather than guessing what the problem is, you should save yourself the headache and work, and test the starter trigger wire with a test light first..

</TD></TR></TABLE>

This really depends on the how old the Clifford alarm is. The newer units have the starter kill relay on board and have three wires coming out. These wires serves the same function as 87, 87a, and 30 on a SPDT relay. So, he may actualy be looking for two heavier guage wires that are green/blk and green/wht or green/blk and green, depending on whether the installer selected normally open or normally closed starter interrupt. Where did you here this clicking from? Was it from under the dash, or under the hood? If it was under the dash, then I guess you could suspect the alarm, but if it was under the hood, I would say starter. All too many times people jump to blame the aftemarket alarm and unless it is a piece of crap or was installed poorly, they usually aren't to blame. I have been doing audio/security for about 12 years and I think I have seen less than 5 relays go bad. Good luck and keep us posted.

Oh yea, what ^^he^^ said, test the starter trigger wire. If when you turn the key you get +12v at the starter, it is not the alarm.

tomu06

ok so last night.. i was down there.. and i found where the alarm was spliced into the oem wires.. there is a 20 gauge black/white, and black/yellow that was tapped.. these wires are coming off of a brown clip which i believe to be the starter relay... so i cut the old alarm wires off, stripped the oem wires, and connected them back to original state.. having done this, i retaped everything and started my car.. started right up no problems.. its 3 am by this time so i go to bed.. come out this morning and no start... checked my connections.. they are still perfect.. there is 2 blue/white wires coming out of this brown clip also.. that look like they run straight to the streeing column.. could these be from the alarm? also there is brown wires running up to a red wire (instead of picturing all this im gonna go take a pic) the clicking sound is coming from the starter.. and my friend yesterday with a test light put it on the starter, it had constant power untill u turned the key over.. does this mean the alarm is telling it to cut the power? or is the starter bad.. i truly believe its the alarm only because the noise that it made when i first started at the gas station.. i believe my alarm beeped once. and the car hasnt ran, besides when i jumped it, and it worked last night? (why would it suddenly work and then not?) any ways ill go get some pics and edit it em on here.. thx for the help guys.








Modified by tomu06 at 4:30 PM 3/26/2006


Modified by tomu06 at 4:33 PM 3/26/2006

tomu06

so i've been searching.. found out some things that relate

ALARM NOTES WIRING LOCATION
Constant Power----- WHT IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS
Ignition Power----- BLK/YEL IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS
Starter Kill------- BLK/WHT IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS

^^^^ all of these were spliced and saulder'd to the alarm wires/plug that i cut and re-connected back to the original spot..

search came up with this?
the starter relay is above and to the left of the under dash fuse box.
(2)blk/wht, blu/wht and blk/red wires running to it.

NismoGriff

I still really believe that is is your starter that is bad. Typically, the only connection on an alarm that will not allow it to start is the starter interrupt. Seeind as how you removed that connection....that should not be it. I once had a problem with my Ford Ranger. It would not start randomly. Sometimes it would work for days then stop, but I could still bump start it. I replace the solonoind that is mounted on the inner fender under the hood and it started. (this isn't there on a honda, so don't go looking ) But when I went to leave work that day...NO GO. I finally decided to replace the started and I have not had a problem since. Chances are, there is a bad spot in motor winding or something of that nature.

tomu06

well.. now i've pretty much redone everything back to oem.. heres a question.. does a starter just go out? for instance at a gas station.. driving normally, in wet/damp conditions.. umm what else.. before when i would unplug my alarm, i wouldnt get a click from the starter, now i've wired it so that i have constant power (white) and i've disabled the starter relay (black/white - black/yellow) where they alarm installers spliced into. now.. it pretty much cannot be my alarm now.. because its not hooked up at all.. i have it sittin in the chair next to me.. about to smash it with a hammer.. although i should give the starter a few taps with a hammer.. anyways.. i get power to the starter, but not after i turn key over.. relay? silonoid? starter? thanks for help its very appreciated.

NismoGriff

You technically have power to the starter all the time. There is a power wire running directly from the main fuse box under to hood to the starter. There is a smaller wire that controls the internal solonoid on the starter, it allows the starter to engage when you turn the key to the start position. Where are you loosing power at? Yes, it is possible for things such as starters to just fail. Although a starter is not used while driving, is does get affected by heatsoak and other factors. You cannot imagine the number of honda owners that have driven their car somewhere and when they came out it would not start do to an ignition coil that just failed and gave no previous signs of failure. Things just go bad

tomu06

heatsoak? all i know was there was a unusual amount of water under the starter and on top of the tranny area.. looked like a coolant leak but it was water.. sort of wierd how that much water rested up there.. i dunno why or where that happened, or if its normal to have that amount of water there.. but this may have caused damage? i would have to ask my friend where he put the test light to check the power.. i believe that he stuck it on the part that uses a female end to connect to the male.. is that the silonoid?

NismoGriff

Yea, that sounds like the part that you would need to test. With you now disclosing the water/coolant sitting on top of the motor around the starter, it makes it sound even more like the starter is what has gone bad.

Gadget

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NismoGriff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I still really believe that is is your starter that is bad. Typically, the only connection on an alarm that will not allow it to start is the starter interrupt. Seeind as how you removed that connection....that should not be it. I once had a problem with my Ford Ranger. It would not start randomly. Sometimes it would work for days then stop, but I could still bump start it. I replace the solonoind that is mounted on the inner fender under the hood and it started. (this isn't there on a honda, so don't go looking ) But when I went to leave work that day...NO GO. I finally decided to replace the started and I have not had a problem since. Chances are, there is a bad spot in motor winding or something of that nature.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can't believe you're compairing a FORD to a HONDA.. Ford hasn't made any new standards for decades, they're too busy fixing stuff to try and keep up with today's standards as it is... I'm thouroughly convinced Fords are CRAP.. I've owned my share of them, and even built a few.. I'll never spend money on another one.. Becides, honda starters NEVER fail due to heat soak... They're on top of the trans over a foot away from the exhaust.. If ford has a reliability factor of 1.00 honda must be about 84.00..

Anyhow, personally I would have jumped the starter to test it while still in the car and/or tested trigger lead output.. At least that way you can try to switch the alarm to Valet mode and test to see if your battery on the remote was dead or maybe the siren died?.. Either way, something alarm related sounds like it failed resulting in starter kill..

tomu06

hmm well, the alarm is pretty much out of there now.. and its still not turning over.. if it is a starter i will find out today, when i put my friends into my car.. if it turns on good.. i know my problem.. if it doesnt, then blah.. back to the drawing boards.

tomu06

well it was not the starter.. i switched it over.. and only get a click. one click nothing else.. the alarm is completely out.. and i have tried unplugging, and pluggin almost every plug under there hoping for a bad connection or something.. what does this starter relay look like? what are the colours of the wires.. do i need to hook back up my alarm? blah.. this is getting so lame.. lemme know i need this thing fixed......

also why would my car start up perfectly fine.. then i go to sleep. come back out and it not work again?? this is when i first reconnected all the oem wires back to normal.. and disconnected the alarm ones (from the plug in the last pic)..

tomu06

?