PAMERE

Hi

I have a 1999 b16a2 honda civic VTI(uk), Si in the US
Engine management light came on and I am getting a smell of fumes .. I am thinging cat convertor but not sure ...
Anyway the AA guy came and he said after checking the car is that because this is a 99 model there is no OBD2 diagnostic plug so what he did was connected one cable in another plug , starter key in position 2 and then we received 3 flashing engine management lights and 2 abs straigh after that ..
Not sure what that means .. and if that translates to 32 .. so i would be grateful if anyone can provide any information

Thanks

HondaPartsHero

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/how-pull-cel-d4-srs-abs-codes-code-lists-1901557/

check it yourself and confirm, there is no 32 code

PAMERE

Thanks for the quick reply

I am confused .. i think i am getting 79 ? 7 long ABS and 9 short engine management ... something that doesnt exist according to the link that you have provided ..

please see here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwG-e...er_profilepage



I am curious if i have an OBD II diagnostic plug somewhere btw ..

Former User

The data link connector for a code reader is near the hood release lever.

CEL code 3 (MAP sensor)
ABS code 6-1 (voltage problem)

First reset the ECU (remove 7.5A hood Back Up fuse for a few minutes) and the ABS control unit (see below) to see whether either code returns.

PAMERE

thanks very much , I didn't realize that the engine management and ABs light were not associated in the procedure (return different codes) and was associating them both ... I will remove the back up fuse and try to reset the abs control unit tomorrow and will update accordingly .

NOFX

From a lot of people I've talked to in Europe it seems some or all of the cars there might not have a DLC (the 16 pin plug next to the hood release) as US cars do for all '96+ vehicles.

So reading from the two pin might be the only route.

PAMERE

Thanks everyone for all the help so far.


i tried step 1, (didn't have much time as I was going to work and also I dont have a SCS service connector )
So I removed the back up fuse for a minute, the engine management light still came on then when trying to get the cel code i still got 3.

This is what happen when I start the car , if you notice it seems that is going to stall then it goes over 1000 rpm and engine management light kicks in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiZ5hqqjQAE

So MAP sensor it seems it is ...I found a diagnostic that I can use to check later ,
Maybe I will take it to honda and ask them to verify to save me some time
(worrying that they mught charge for checking the lights if thats the case i guess i'll have to do it myself)

Is a map sensor very expensive to replace for this sort of car? Are there any aftermarket ones or one should use OEM?


The way that understand it is that a map sensore failure will make the car run badly and loose power as is getting the incorrect amount of fuel / fuel mixture ... and maybe cause an occasional stalling right?

If that turns up to be the issue .. Is it ok to drive the car at all till I replace it?Can I expect something else to go wrong if I dont replace it quick enough?

Regarding the diagnostic plug NOFX I think you are right I looked eveywhre also and I dont seem to be able to find one.

HondaPartsHero

Former User

Removing the Back Up fuse for 1 minute is often insufficient to reset the ECU.

Did you reset the ABS control unit and the ABS code did not return?

PAMERE

Hi

Ronj@HT I should have said for a while didn;t do it for a minute

So got to the bottom of this and I am upset and very angry right now !!

I don;t like saying this but I don't trust many mechanics anymore

So a bit of background info about recent problems / repairs (sorry long i know)

About two weeks ago when i tried to start the car it started but it struggled a little but.

I took it to Honda as is close to my work just for a quick diagnostic as I didnt have time to check it.

Honda said that it was the battery and that a new one costs £60 inc fitting (around $100)

Anyway got it fitted and the next morning the car wouldn't start at all ...

It ended up being the alternator jump started the car using cables and took it back to Honda to get a quote for an alternator, on the way to work/ honda it started overheating while in traffic.

I asked honda for a quote for the alternator and they said it costs around 644 dollars (400 gbp) but in any case they didn't have one in stock and that it would take them two weeks to get one , the reason that it was overheating they said it was the thermostat .

I ordered the thermostat 30 gbp (around 50 usd) and fitted it my self.

I arranged and found a place that was going to provide me with an alternator for 300 dollars inc fitting but was not going to take it there till the next day .

The thermostat didn't fix the overheating problem while in traffic (to remind you the only way that I could start the car at this point was to jump start )

The funny thing was that sometimes when i turned the lights on the heating gauge was going up when off the heating was going down

Anyway installed the alternator and the overheating problem went away .

The technician over there said that the overheating was caused because the car would get electricity to the most essential parts and most likely it would not give to the radiator fan untill it was too late or something..

So far Honda was given two wrong diagnosis (one was the battery and two was the thermostat)

Then after two days I am getting the MAP sensor issue.

As I said in my previous post I took it to honda this morning(being next door) just to double check (they said that they wont charge me in the end)

So honda said that it was the map sensor indeed and requested around 580 dollars including fitting .

Came back home ready to run the diagnostics and checked a couple of videos in youtube as well in regards to how to measure the voltage etc

So I opened the bonnet looking for the map sensor and to my surprise it was squashed under the black strut bar !!!

It was pressing it so hard that it had damaged the plug that it goes into the map sensor, and the plug was not in anymore !!!

I Immediately untighten and took the strut bar off and put back the cable into the map sensor !!

http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img2502f.jpg/

The last thing that the guy that installed my alternator put was the strut bar as I clearly remember and guess what ? he put it the wrong way ! brilliant !

So all this trouble because and worry because he didn't put it back correctly ...


Not sure if any damaged was caused in the vehicle with the map sensor unable to pass information to the ECU .. combustion must have been **** and I am wondering if it was running rich or low .. ?

After that I attached the map sensor back to the cable with the help of some tape, i then removed the back up fuse and went to check the CEL code(no flashing this time) , to my suprise .. the point that the cable mounts and clips in was broken !!!

http://img16.imageshack.us/i/img2505w.jpg/

I was the last one that checked it and used this this morning to get a CEL and when I did I left it into place so the honda technician was so careless that broke it and left it there it seems ?

That is crazy!I am thinking of complaining to Honda and the alternator place ...

What do you think and what would you do guys ?

EJ8_Man

Sounds like your car self destructed on you. An unfortunate sequence of events.

You need to complain and take it back to the mechanic that smashed the MAP sensor and tell them to replace it at no charge to you.

Are there any pick and pull yards where you live? I rarely look to the Honda dealership for parts. In the future trust your local pick and pull yard for things like alternators

Former User

Absolutely unbelievable.

Without delay, convert post #10 into a formal complaint letter and send it to the CEO of Honda Corporation, as well as to the person who runs the Honda dealership where all these mistakes were made. Then call the latter individual and arrange for an appointment to discuss the issues in your letter in person. If Honda is still a good company, you will get an apology and a refund for work and parts.

Please keep us updated.

PAMERE

Dear all

Is been a while so I thought i'll give you a quick update:

So I emailed the alternator place and the technician that fitted the alternator called me back the same day, he was very polite and he apologised for the mistake.
He asked what I would like to happen in order to rectify this, we discussed and we both agreed that as there is no damage right now , whenever I am around we can replace the cable that connects to the map sensor with a new one or MAP sensor if it ends up being faulty any-time soon ... so happy with the alternator place and customer support.

The reason that it took me a while to update is because I am still trying to get somewhere with honda!
Will post detailed information when I get to the bottom of this,
But they took a very long time to reply and had to chase them up to so .. when I went to meet them in person they weren't aware of my email apparently,so eventually they replied and there is a total lack of responsibility in their responses so we exchanged a couple of emails and now I am escalating this to the honda customer care..

I'll keep you posted

PAMERE

Hi email trail below, RONJ@HT to my dissapoinment I am not getting anywhere with Honda... I can chase it further but not sure if there is a point..just really dissapointed..





----------Forwarded message ----------
From: P **** ****@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, May 24, 2011 at 4:12 PM
Subject: RETRIEVED: RETRIEVED: Diagnostics (car reg **VEHICHLE REG** , telephone no)
To: info@




Dear Sir/ Madam


About two weeks ago when I tried to start my car, it eventually started but struggled bit. I brought it to your garage for a quick diagnostic as I didn't have time to check it. The battery was diagnosed as a faulty and I paid around £60 for replacement (I also had an oil filter change and some bulbs so a total of approximately£110).



However, the next morning the car wouldn't start at all...



I called the AA and the technician said that the problem was the alternator, he stated that it is charging but very little so that the battery would not hold charge. He had to jump start the car, and once again, I took it to your garage to confirm the diagnosis and get a quote for a new alternator. On the way to your garage my car started overheating when idle in traffic.



Your technicians confirmed the alternator was at fault, I was told that the overheating was due to a bad thermostat. The quote for the alternator was £400,or £200 for a refurbished replacement. In either case it had to be ordered as none were in stock, I was told that this might take two weeks.



I couldn’t afford to be without a vehicle for this amount of time, so I had replacement fitted elsewhere on Thursday (19th May). I ordered the thermostat for £30 and fitted it myself.


The thermostat didn't fix the overheating problem and I was still having to jump start the car as the alternator was not fitted yet.



Strangely when I turned the lights on the heating gauge would go up, and when I turned them off the gauge would drop. When the new alternator was installed, the overheating problem was resolved. The mechanic who fitted the alternator said that the overheating was caused by insufficient voltage and most likely it would not supply the proper voltage to the radiator fan.



So far HONDA was given me two wrong diagnosis (first was the battery and second the thermostat). Two days after the alternator installation (Sunday) the engine management light came on.



As HONDA was closed, I posted the problem on a forum, and I was told how to diagnosis the fault. You can check the post here:

http://www.HONDA-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2938616


Then yesterday I brought it to HONDA , in order to confirm my diagnosis (faultyMAP sensor). It was confirmed by your garage and I was quoted £380 for the part. At this point I was really frustrated, and thought about getting a new vehicle so had a discussion with J


Went back home ready to run some diagnostics that I was provided by the forum in regards to the MAP sensor.


So I opened the bonnet looking for the MAP sensor and to my surprise it was squashed under the black strut bar! It was pressing on it so hard that it had damaged the connector to the map sensor, and it was not connected anymore.



Immediately removed the strut bar off and reconnected the cable into the MAPsensor
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img2502f.jpg/



(The mechanic who installed my new alternator fitted the strut bar incorrectly, as I clearly remember him fitting it in the end of the job).




After removing the strut bar and re-attaching the MAP sensor cable (with the help of some tape), I removed the backup fuse and check the CEL code (no flashing this time). However to my surprise ... the point that the cable mounts and clips in was broken!

http://img16.imageshack.us/i/img2505w.jpg/

I was the last one that checked the plug and used it this morning to get a CEL code. When I finished I reconnected the cable, so it would seem the Honda technician was so careless as to break it?



To summarise, I have received two wrong diagnosis from Honda (battery and thermostat) and paid approximately £90 in parts.


Even though the third diagnosis was correct (MAP Sensor) the clip that the diagnostic plug was attached was broken and the cables were hanging loose.



There was a failure to further diagnose that the MAP sensor was not functioning properly because it was squashed by the strut bar, and that the cable was out(even though that wasn't HONDA 's fault).



Despite these issues, I am happy with the customer service that I received from David and V***. I rarely complain but felt compelled to on this occasion. I wanted to bring this your attention as I hope, and I do believe, that HONDA strives for excellent service.



I work locally and I will be visiting your garage tomorrow around 1pm to test drive the new CRZ with J , please reply to this email or if you wish we can discuss the matter further in person.





Yours Faithfully



P



From **** <****@gmail.com>
Date: June 2, 2011 16:44:52GMT+01:00
To: v.***@.HONDA ***
Subject: Fwd: Diagnostics (car reg **VEHICHLE REG** , telephone no)





Dear V***





I've been told from J that he forwarded the email below to yourself so that it can be addressed , haven't heard anything yet so I am forwarding it again.



Best Regards


P


From: P **** [mailto:****@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2011 16:24
To: V***@.HONDA ***


Subject: RETRIEVED: Fwd:Diagnostics (car reg **VEHICHLE REG** , telephone no)




Begin forwarded message



On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, V*** <V***@.HONDA ***>wrote:



Hi P



Upon reviewing the job cards in relation to the work carried out to your civic, on your first visit we tested the battery & charge rate, the battery failed the condition test and required replacement, the charge rate was checked by the same tester and passed at time of test. We replaced the battery and also replaced the leaking corroded oil filter and 4 defective bulbs. The total invoice for this work was £113.15. we only charged for the repairs but not a diagnostic charge

On the second visit we retested the charge rate and found that thealternator was not charging and advised that would need replacing. We did not charge a diagnostic charge for this visit

On the third job card we checked for fault codes against the indicated management system, the map sensor was seen to be damaged bymisfitment of the strut brace and we advised that the map sensor would need replacement, also on this occasion we did not charge a diagnostic charge

As stated in your e-mail you have now replaced the alternator that we advised was in need of replacement and also attempted a repair to the map sensor which was damaged by a third party when they fitted the alternator for you.

The only charges that we have made to you have been for essential repairs to your vehicle that were pre authorized by yourself. I can understand your frustration with the original diagnosis on the charge rate provided on the first visit but we can only work to the results that we achieve on each test, which can sometimes be conflicting due to an intermittent failure.

All other diagnosis was as stated in your e-mail correct.



Yours truly,



V*** ***



After Sales Manager

B**** HONDA


HONDA ***





________________________________________
From: P
Sent: 07 June 2011 23:37
To: V
Cc:
Subject: RETRIEVED: Re: RETRIEVED: Fwd: Diagnostics
Hi V
Thanks for your email,
I am aware and very appreciative for the fact that I a diagnostic fee was not applied on the occasions that you mentioned and happy with the way that you guys treat your customers as you were all have been very polite and friendly.
Regarding the issues mentioned
• I wouldn't necessarily agree that the battery has been the issue with the car starting as everything seems to point that it was the alternator that was going anyway, that is (sort of) proven from the car struggling to start the day that I brought it and replaced the battery and then not starting at all the following day.
However there is no solid basis for allegation of wrong diagnosis as we don't have the original battery to test and it might just happened that both of the parts (alternator and battery) have failed just within a short interval (although it seems unlikely)
• On the Second visit however apart from the alternator it was advised that the thermostat needed replacement to fix the heating issue
The thermostat didn't fix the overheating problem and I was still having to jump start the car as the alternator was not fitted yet.
Strangely when I turned the lights on the heating gauge would go up, and when I turned them off the gauge would drop. When the new alternator was installed, the overheating problem was resolved
(extract from my original email )
This was clearly the wrong diagnosis.
• Regarding the third diagnosis it was correct (there Issue with MAP sensor
However I was not informed about the following
>>The map sensor was seen to be damaged by misfitment of the strut brace and we advised that the map sensor would need replacement (
(extract from your email)
If that was the case shouldn't that have been informed and have the issue rectified ? or at least get a quote for a job to put the struct bar right should be given (regardless of the map sensor )
2)Most importantly I mentioned in my previous email that The clip that the diagnostic plug was attached was broken and the cables were hanging loose (see link below)
>>
However to my surprise ... the point that the cable mounts and clips in was broken!
http://img16.imageshack.us/i/img2505w.jpg/
I was the last one that checked the plug(had the wrong word here map sensor instead of flag)
and used it this morning to get a CEL code. When I finished I reconnected the cable, so it would seem the HONDA technician was so careless as to break it?
(extract from my original email )
Again as stated previously I am happy with the customer service that I received and everyone was very polite and friendly.
Many Thanks
P


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: V
Date: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: RETRIEVED: Re: RETRIEVED: Fwd: Diagnostics
To: p
Cc
Hi P
With regards the thermostat/overheating issue the advise given to you at the time of your visit was that if your car was showing signs of overheating but not losing coolant then the probable cause would be a thermostat.
As you declined us the opportunity to address ether the alternator or thermostat/overheating issue we did not carry out extensive diagnosis.
However your car was not overheating but only indicating a high temperature on the electronic gauge unit. However I apologize if you feel we have given you incorrect advice but as stated in my last reply we can only advise from the evidence that we are presented with at the time of your visit and if you had disclosed that the gauge unit altered with the lights being used then we would have given different advice.
Regard
V
After Sales Manager



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: P
Date: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: RETRIEVED: Re: RETRIEVED: Fwd:
To: V
Cc:
Hi V

With regards the thermostat/overheating issue the advise given to you at the time of your visit was that if your car was showing signs of overheating but not losing coolant then the probable cause would be a thermostat.


>>I was just told that the issue was the thermostat and needed replacing no other information was given , I then asked what happens if it is not the thermostat and I was told that it needs to be replaced first and then perform further diagnostics if needed (so no solid diagnosis).


only advise from the evidence that we are presented with at the time of your visit and if you had disclosed that the gauge unit altered with the lights being used then we would have given different advise

>> I was not aware of this until the night time when I had to use the lights

However your car was not overheating but only indicating a high temperature on the electronic gauge unit

>>Not advised as so

I am just trying to explain what really happened here and put things straight.
I was just expecting a different response as It seems that there is lack of responsibility

Furthermore the following was not answered

A) >>The map sensor was seen to be damaged by misfitment of the strut brace and we advised that the map sensor would need replacement (
(extract from your email)
If that was the case shouldn't I have been informed at least ? and have the issue rectified ? or at least get a quote for a job to put the struct bar right should be given (regardless of map sensor being faulty or not )

B)Most importantly I mentioned in my previous email that The clip that the diagnostic plug was attached was broken and the cables were hanging loose (see link below)
>>
However to my surprise ... the point that the cable mounts and clips in was broken!
http://img16.imageshack.us/i/img2505w.jpg/
I was the last one that checked the plug(had the wrong word here map sensor instead of flag)
and used it this morning to get a CEL code. When I finished I reconnected the cable, so it would seem the HONDA technician was so careless as to break it?
(extract from my original email )
as a I work very close and your garage is convenient I would like your response to help me restore confidence in HONDA .

Regards

P


DIDN’T HEAR BACK FROM V SO CONTACTED HONDA CUSTOMER SUPPORT



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: P
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 3:48 PM
Subject: Fwd: RETRIEVED: Re: RETRIEVED: Fwd:

To: @HONDA -eu

Dear Sir / Madam
I contacted HONDA customer service and I was given this email.
I am unhappy with the service / responses provided and still haven't received a response on my last email so I would like to bring the matter under your attention as I am dissatisfied at this point.
Please find below complete email trail (there were some emails before that directly to the dealer but didn't get an answer until I contacted people directly),
The dealer in question is ****
Yours faithfully
P

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: < -eu.com>
Date: Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: RETRIEVED: Re: RETRIEVED: Fwd: Diagnostic
To: P>



Dear Mr P,

In continuation of our conversation this afternoon, I believe we recognised
that there are two outstanding issues which you would like addressed.

In reference to the battery being replaced, I understand you felt that this
was a mis-diagnosis however after speaking to the dealership they have
confirmed that after testing the battery, they found that it was not
holding its charge and therefore recommended a replacement. This would have
been the correct procedure to follow at the time as it would have been
partly unreasonable to warrant any further technical investigation if the
battery is showing to be failing. If the suggestion of the battery
replacement was declined by yourself at the time then of course it would
not have been replaced. It was only replaced under your instructions and
the dealership recommendation.

In reference to the damage to the vehicle, if you felt the dealership were
at fault then the vehicle should have been inspected by somebody at the
dealership as soon as you had noticed. If this issue was not recorded at
the time which it had occurred it is difficult for the dealership to
confirm that it was due to their repair.

The issues you have mentioned are definitely not manufacturing ones and
unfortunately there is very little that we can do in order to take this
case forward within HONDA (UK).

I am sorry that we have been unable to meet your expectations however I
hope it is evident that all issues brought to the attention of HONDA (UK)
are dealt with seriously and thoroughly.

Kind Regards
HONDA

J
Customer Relations


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: P
Date: Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: RETRIEVED: Re: RETRIEVED: Fwd: Diagnostics)
To: @HONDA -eu.com

Dear J
Please see my answers below :

In reference to the battery being replaced, I understand you felt that this
was a mis-diagnosis however after speaking to the dealership they have
confirmed that after testing the battery, they found that it was not
holding its charge and therefore recommended a replacement. This would have
been the correct procedure to follow at the time as it would have been
partly unreasonable to warrant any further technical investigation if the
battery is showing to be failing. If the suggestion of the battery
replacement was declined by yourself at the time then of course it would
not have been replaced. It was only replaced under your instructions and
the dealership recommendation.
>>
According to the AA technician it is normal for a battery to be flat if the alternator is not charging it,
Does HONDA disagree with that statement?
The alternator was not checked initially.
Again according to the same technician when he visited and he diagnosed the problem a more thorough investigation would have pointed to the alternator
I do give to the dealership the benefit of the doubt ...As stated earlier on my email to V we don't have the original(replaced) battery to test and it might just happened that both of the parts (alternator and battery) have failed at the same time (although in my eyes it seems highly unlikely)
In reference to the damage to the vehicle, if you felt the dealership were
at fault then the vehicle should have been inspected by somebody at the
dealership as soon as you had noticed. If this issue was not recorded at
the time which it had occurred it is difficult for the dealership to
confirm that it was due to their repair.

I noticed it after I went home as I received it at the end of the day (The dealership was closed when I arrived at home co couldn't call them to go back)
As I explained, I've written an email to record it in this email I summarized everything and the next day I sent it(so recorded it)
In addition I've visited the dealership the following day after work and a couple of times after that e.g For a test drive and to speak about the issue but was told that my email was received and V is dealing with it (was not ask at any point for the damage to be inspected) .
Another issue that I've raised was also the thermostat wrongly diagnosed as faulty and myself incurring additional charges .

The issues you have mentioned are definitely not manufacturing ones and
unfortunately there is very little that we can do in order to take this
case forward within HONDA
Does HONDA deals only with manufacuring issues ? If yes how can you suggest going forward with this ?

Many Thanks
P


DIDN’T HEAR BACK FROM HONDA CUSTOMER SUPPORT FOR 15 DAYS+ SO EMAIL THEM AGAIN


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: P
Date: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: RETRIEVED: Re: RETRIEVED: Fwd: Diagnostics
To: honda.com

Dear Sir / Madam
I still haven't received a response on this.
Yours faithfully
P




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: < @HONDA -eu.com>
Date: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: RETRIEVED: Re: RETRIEVED:
To: P


Dear Mr P

Thank you once again for your email correspondence. Firstly please accept
my apologies in the delay of the response, die to the high numbers of
telephone calls, emails and letters we get on a daily basis, on occasion
our response time can be slightly increased.

I would like to address the questions you have asked in a systematic
fashion to ensure that they are answered as clearly as possible.

According to the AA technician it is normal for a battery to be flat if the
alternator is not charging it,
Does HONDA disagree with that statement?
- Unfortunately as a non technically trained individual in a non
technically trained department, I would be unable to answer this question
for you. The dealership inspected the vehicle for you and perhaps would be
better suited to answering this technical question

The alternator was not checked initially.
- I believe this to be a statement.

Again according to the same technician when he visited and he diagnosed the
problem a more thorough investigation would have pointed to the alternator.

- As explained in the previous email, if the battery is showing as
problematic and is therefore replaced, this would not by any admission
point the dealership to further investigation. If you felt strongly that
there was a further issue then further diagnosis time could have been
agreed by yourself with the dealership as they would not carry out
investigation unpaid for an issue they felt was not evident at that
particular time.

I noticed it after I went home as I received it at the end of the day (The
dealership was closed when I arrived at home so couldn't call them to go
back)
As I explained, I've written an email to record it in this email I
summarized everything and the next day I sent it(so recorded it)
In addition I've visited the dealership the following day after work and a
couple of times after that e.g For a test drive and to speak about the
issue but was told that my email was received and V is dealing with it
(was not ask at any point for the damage to be inspected) .
Another issue that I've raised was also the thermostat wrongly diagnosed as
faulty and myself incurring additional charges .
- Both of these issues seem to be dealership issues rather than
manufacturing ones and therefore would have to be taken forward with V
or with **** who is the dealership principle directly. Alternative
contacts are also listed below.

Contacts
::::


Does HONDA deals only with manufacturing issues ? If yes how can you
suggest going forward with this ? - Yes we predominately deal with
manufacturing issues being the manufacturer of the vehicle. However
depending on case we can be of assistance outside of this parameter. Your
case has been fully investigated On the basis of the facts known to us
there is little more that HONDA can do to assist and, we feel that further
repeated correspondence between us will neither resolve matters nor be of
benefit to HONDA or yourself.

We therefore do not propose to respond to future correspondence sent to
HONDA covering issues which we have already attempted to deal with.

It is with regret that we have been unable to satisfy your requests on this
particular occasion.

Kind Regards
HONDA

strategy400

Another reason I do all my own work except for machining.

No one cares about your car or wallet like you do.

Reminds me of when my Toyota truck developed a knock with < 50k miles.

Took it to the stealership under my "bumper to bumper" warranty and they tore the engine down to an empty block then told me "a piston had scuffed the block" and that the fine print of my warranty only covered "internally lubricated moving parts" and that the block was not a moving part??? WTF?

So I told them that was unacceptable then they claimed I didn't change my oil which I do religiously.

Finally they said Toyota "felt bad" and they would pay for a new short block if I paid for labor ($1000).

I have since had 3 blown headgaskets and will never ever purchase another Toyota. You asked for it, you got it, Toyota. Oh what a feeling. Who could ask for anything more. I love what you do for me, Toyota. <insert stupid Toyota slogan here>.

Apparently these car companies don't want to keep their reputations and customers.