zturek

2000 Honda Civic MT EX 198000+ miles P0420 code

I have a Honda Civic and not original owner. Time for CAT replacement.
Looks like original converter because of the heat shield.

1. Can you tell from the ECM if it requires at California emissions type catalytic
converter?

2. Looking at the existing converter can you tell which type it has
in the vehicle?

I live in Texas and would like to purchase a EPA standard one but not
sure if the ECM would throw codes.

MADMKIII

Check the emissions sticker on the underside of the hood. It should tell you if it's CA or Fed emissions

jdblock

The only difference between the two, is a EO number for use in California, and an additional $100 on the price tag. The ECM will see no difference.

Former User

P0450 is not a cat code.

What code is retrieved by jumping the service connector?

zturek

Sorry about that the code is P0420 I updated original post








Looks like California emissions system.

Since I am not the original owner just wanted to make sure the rest of the
system has not been modified ECM, etc to use the standard EPA type cat.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

google spark plug non fouler trick. will get you by until the cat actually goes bad.

zturek

This is the current cat on my vehicle



Looks like oem.

Thanks jdblock for the info. Where is the EO mark at that you were talking about?
Sound you were saying that the ECM will not throw the efficiency code no matter which
cat you have installed.

zturek

Found out from giving the dealership my VIN that it has a standard EPA
and NOT Calif cat type.

Of course they quoted me a price of $995 + 150 core charge.

I have seen some youtube vid's on cleaning not sure about that seems
people had limited success with that.
Given the age of the cat sounds like I will go with the magnaflow option.

Any thoughts??

jdblock

OEM cats won't have the number unless it's a replacement cat. If it's never been changed it won't have a number.

If you're out of California don't even bother getting a CA cat. Not sure what the laws are where you're at, but hit up Summit Racing and see what they have that bolts onto your car.

COSMOS-1

Here is some information about CARB California Air Resources Board) and aftermarket approved via a EO (Executive Order)

After market catalytic converters are only allowed in California AFTER the OEM emissions warranty expires, then a EO can be applied for. An OE number would be issued to lets example a Volant CAI, when the vehicle is a few years old if it passes CARB rules to obtain an EO number then one will be issued. Being's how Volant is a California company they follow the rules of CARB as does Magnaflow...
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Aftermarket, Performance and Add-On Parts
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https://www.google.com/search?num=10...w=720&bih=1209
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1.Terms in brackets ([]) are placeholders for contentthat is variable from State to State.


2. Please note that States opting to promulgaterules based on this model rule that this guidance document addresses mustcomply with State specific administrative requirements and procedures as wellas state specific statutes/laws that may govern the scope of the rules, as wellas State specific compliance and enforcement regulations.


Guidance for Implementation of “Model Rule for Sale ofAftermarket Catalytic Converters”



FrequentlyAsked Questions about Aftermarket Converters



What is a California-approved aftermarketcatalytic converter?


California anti-tampering legislation prohibits theinstallation of any aftermarket, modified, or add-on device that may affectvehicle emissions. If the California AirResources Board (CARB) determines that a device will not increase emissions, itmay exempt the device from the anti-tampering legislation.


After CARB has made the required determination theExecutive Officer (or designee) issues an Executive Order exempting theaftermarket part, which approves it for its intended use. Once CARB has issued the exemption, thedevice is approved for its intended use, and may be legally sold andinstalled.


Aftermarket catalytic converters, which are catalyticconverters other than those from the vehicle manufacturer, must have ananti-tampering exemption from CARB to be approved for sale in California. Catalytic converters from a vehiclemanufacturer that are identical to the converter(s) originally installed on thevehicle (OEM - original equipment of the manufacturer) do not require CARBapproval, since approval of the OEM converter is included in the vehicle'scertification when new.


How do California-approved aftermarketcatalytic converters differ from EPA-certified aftermarket catalyticconverters?


Both CARB and EPA certify that the proper installation ofaftermarket catalytic converters does not constitute emissions-relatedtampering. The following table illustrateskey differences between the EPA and California programs.




Performance Standard
EPA
California
Emissions
HC/CO/NOx reductions of 70%/70%/30%
Must equal the vehicle’s original certification level (e.g., TLEV, LEV, ULEV, etc.)
Must be OBDII-compatible, if it is an OBD equipped vehicles
Used converters no longer allowed
Certification/Testing
Manufacturer certifies to EPA that its catalytic converters meet the requirements
CARB reviews test results from independent labs converters to certify
EOs are issued to specific engine families
CARB audit-tests converters to be sure that they meet performance standards
Warranty – emissions
25,000 miles
50,000 miles
Warranty – catalyst housing
50,000 miles
50,000 miles
Warranty – coverage
Catalytic converter
Catalytic converter, parts, and labor
Labeling
A series of letters and numbers designating:

• Whether the converter is new/used
• The Manufacturer
• The Vehicle
• Date of Manufacture

The following must be visible on the converter when installed on the vehicle:

• Direction of exhaust flow
• Manufacturer’s part number
• Executive Order number
• Date of Manufacture

What types of catalyticconverters are currently legal for use on [State]vehicles and what changes will occur once the new rules take effect?


The table below summarizes the types ofcatalysts that can currently be used, and what options will be available oncethe regulatory changes take effect.


Catalytic Converter Type
Currently Legal for Use?
Legal for Use Once New
Rules Take Effect?
New Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM)
Yes
Yes
New Aftermarket
Yes
Yes, but converter models sold or installed on or after [Start Date] must be approved by California Executive Order (although in some cases a waiver can be obtained from this requirement – see below)
Used OEM Converters
[Does State Allow Now?]
[If State Opts To Allow Used Converters]
Yes, but see below.
[Else]
No
Used Aftermarket Converters
[Does State Allow Now?]
No


How can someone tell if anew, CARB approved aftermarket catalytic converter is available for a customer’svehicle?

You can access a searchable listing of approvedaftermarket catalytic converters at the CARB’s website: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermktcat/aftermktcatdbase.htm.Executive Orders for pre-OBD II and OBD II converters can be sorted byExecutive Order number, or by converter manufacturer. It should be noted that Executive Orders canbe revoked if the aftermarket part was found not to meet standards in thefield, so it is recommended that this database be checked.

In the event that an appropriate convertercannot be found in the database, also check the printable list of approvedaftermarket converters http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermktcat/exemptcat09.pdf,which often is updated sooner than the database.

CARB approved aftermarket catalytic converterssold after January 1, 2009, will also have the ARB Executive Order number permanentlylabeled on the converter shell. Beforeinstallation, you should consult the converter manufacturer’s applicationcatalog to verify the converter model is designed to fit your specific vehicleapplication and that it is specifically approved for use on that vehicle.Statements such as “approved for use on OBD II vehicles” don’t necessarily meanthat the approval is valid for all OBDII vehicles.


Can a federally certifiedaftermarket catalytic converter be installed on a vehicle?


No. Withthe exception noted in the next question, as of [Start Date] only converters allowed by a CARB Executive Order areallowed to be installed. This includesvehicles that meet California emission standards (CA vehicles), Federalemission standards (49 state vehicles), or both California and Federal emissionstandards (50 state vehicles).

What happens if theoriginal catalytic converter is still under warranty?

You cannot install an aftermarket converter ifthe original converter is still under warranty. An OEM converter must be used as a replacement.


What if there’s no CARB approvedaftermarket catalytic converter for my customer’s vehicle?

In the case that a CARB approved aftermarket catalyticconverter cannot be obtained an OEM converter must be installed.

If an OEM converter cannot be found then a CARBapproved aftermarket converter must be installed on the vehicle that has thesame level of precious metal and is designed for the vehicle’s configuration although the converter may not necessarily bedesigned for the same make, model, and model year.

In a situation where an CARB approved converter thathas the same level of precious metal and is designed for the vehicle’sconfiguration is also not available, then you should contact [State Representative] to determine ifthe particular vehicle can be granted a waiver to allow for the installation ofa federally certified aftermarket converter and how to go through the processof obtaining the waiver.

Information cannot be foundon precious metal loading in converters. How is it determined if a converter has anequivalent level of loading?

The equivalency of loading may bedetermined by several methods. First, if a CARB converter is designed for avehicle of similar engine displacement and is used in a similar exhaustconfiguration and placement, then that converter may be the best fit. Second,if there is an equivalent CARB converter available for a CA-certified vehicleof the same year, make and model of federal vehicle, then that converter may beused. In both cases, the installer needs to exercise prudent discretion indetermining the best fit and compatibility. If the installer has any questions,he or she should contact [State Representative].


Are used OEM convertersrebuilt with new or refurbished parts allowed to be installed?

No.

Are used OEM converters thatare removed from a vehicle without alteration allowed to be installed?


[If State Opts To Allow Used Converters]


Yes but only under certain conditions. Used OEM converters can only be installed onvehicles equipped with OBD II. The usedconverter must then be monitored by the OBD system. Furthermore used OEM converters must bedesigned in order to fit the configuration for the vehicle, has to have anequivalent the level of precious metal loading, and otherwise function as if itwere the originally installed converter.


[Else]
No.


CARB certified aftermarketconverters don’t come in direct fit assemblies. What should be done?


Third-party manufacturers are allowed to connectpipes to universal fit catalytic converters made by other manufacturers andmarket them under the original CARB Executive Order. The universal converters can only be used inthese assemblies for the engine families listed in the original CARB Executive Order,which can be searched here – http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermktcat/aftermktcatdbase.htm.. Finally, shops can install and properly fitthe piping for a universal converter so that it can be installed on a varietyof vehicles as long as the converter was issued an EO by CARB for thosevehicles.


What is the timeline forthe new requirements for installing CARB aftermarket catalytic converters?


[There is no settimeline laid out in the model guidance. OTC recommends that each state reach out to the stakeholders in theirstate to develop an appropriate timeline that considers the state’s fleet makeup and any other factors.]


Determining the Proper Aftermarket Catalytic Converter To Install


Sample Checklist to Provide Installers


Installer’s Checklist for New Aftermarket Catalytic Converters

1.
The vehicle model is specifically included in the applicability list for the catalytic converter model I intend to install, and the converter model is approved for use by California.


2.
I have verified that the vehicle manufacturer’s warranty for the original catalytic converter has expired. If the warranty has not expired you must install an OEM catalyst instead of an aftermarket part. Warranties will range from a minimum of 7 years/70,000 miles to 15 years/150,000 miles. Consult the owner’s manual.


3.
I have confirmed the need for a replacement catalytic converter. If the original converter is still installed, a diagnosis that it is malfunctioning is required.


4.
The replacement converter will be installed in the same location as the original converter (the front face location will be within three inches compared to the original design) with the identification clearly visible.


5.
All oxygen sensors will remain installed in their original location(s).


6.
The catalytic converter will be installed on a “one-for-one” basis (only one OEM converter is being replaced by the converter to be installed). Decreasing or increasing the number of catalytic converters (compared to the stock configuration) is prohibited.


7.
If the vehicle is certified to meet federal emission standards only, I have ensured that the aftermarket converter has the same level of precious metal loading and is intended for a similar configuration as the OEM converter.


8.
Warranty Card - I have:
(a) filled out the warranty card
(b) obtained the customer’s signature on the card
(c) attached the card to the original repair invoice
(d) returned a copy of the warranty card to the converter manufacturer.


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zturek

Had disconnected the battery while I was doing some other work.

P0420 code went away for about 6 months then came back.

Just now replaced it with a Magnaflow Cat, Walker spring bolt kit from Advanced Auto and the three back bolts and nuts
from HondaPartsNow. Be patience I kept spraying the bolts for about 3 weeks and slow worked them
back and forth with deep impact and ratchet and they came off without breaking.

Got rid of the engine code and passed inspection and restored engine power

One side note. I noticed that my engine power had start decreasing in the past 2 1/2 months that was because
I could not see any light through the other cat. (clogged) Sounded like almost an exhaust leak during acceleration.